Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Mon July 16th, 2018, 03:13 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 07:42 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 16th, 2008, 21:48 GMT
Posts: 2871
Location: Connecticut
General thoughts or comments on this track? Any live renditions to post, that are quite worthy! MEZ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 07:59 GMT 

Joined: Thu February 19th, 2009, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 118
I used to like this one quite a lot, but I've grown to be less impressed. It seems to me to be an attempt to consciously try and write a mystical lyric where the substance is absent.

Obviously there are the links to Rastarfarianism and the mythical version of King David, but I don't really think the song is saying anything, though it pretends to.

I think it sounds ok, though I it does make me fondly wish that Dylan had done his take on reggae music in the mid 70s, rather than the early 80s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 10:30 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 25th, 2008, 22:49 GMT
Posts: 2255
Location: Joliet, IL, USA
Always thought this was kind of overrated when i see lists of this being one of this best songs... it's good but not top 20 or 30 material imho.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 13:00 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun December 21st, 2008, 20:11 GMT
Posts: 179
One of my favorite 80s tracks, love the Real Live version.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sat May 23rd, 2009, 14:54 GMT 

Joined: Sun September 21st, 2008, 14:03 GMT
Posts: 2891
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Nothing beats the feb 1993 versions


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 01:48 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 04:15 GMT
Posts: 1519
Location: City of Angels
"Someone else is speaking with my mouth, but I'm listening only with my heart."

This cryptic lyric of displacement and pessimistic narcissism characterizes the song for me, never able to reconcile
one's external and internal struggles with identity.
It's quite a nasty angry song, with the only redemption being the "strange woman" waiting
for his return from the evils outside.

Bob rightfully tore the song apart, put it back together in 93 and destroyed it again to create a perfect hard rock song out of it.
I've never been a fan of the album Infidels but I rate the songs quite highly,
and a lot of that comes from the NET.
Those 93 versions are great but 95 is where I find a lot of my favorite versions of it.
Here's one from March 23rd, 95.
Again, Bucky Baxter....

http://www.sendspace.com/file/0u09qe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 01:57 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 16th, 2008, 21:48 GMT
Posts: 2871
Location: Connecticut
Great rendition marker thanks MEZ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 02:31 GMT 

Joined: Thu May 7th, 2009, 05:46 GMT
Posts: 324
Ok, I am going to be different here - that live version does not add anything much to me.

It's fine - I'd love to hear him play it - but to me it doesn't re-define the song.

I like the original version fine, one of his best from the 80s. Walk through a desolate part of town on a windy, rainy night with that song blaring out of your ipod - you'll get it.

Now - but what I would love even more is a de-1980'ed version of Infidels with all the good songs actually on the album.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 04:46 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri June 27th, 2008, 20:28 GMT
Posts: 17309
Location: Maybe it isn't a tour, maybe he's just lost.
Incoherent claptwaddle, but you can dance to it. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 16:04 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu February 2nd, 2006, 05:11 GMT
Posts: 3114
Location: Tokyo, Japan
I've never heard much in this song, but everyone else seems to like it so I may be missing something. To me, the lyrics are a bit silly and there is no melody to speak of. But what do I know?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Sun May 24th, 2009, 16:09 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 1st, 2009, 03:26 GMT
Posts: 1387
Location: With the winds in Chicago
I've always like the imagery as a whole, the one-night-stand in his bed, him leaving and walking around, not really caring one way or the other about her, or even who she is. I know there must be some deep double meaning in the song, but I never looked for it. I'm content with the skin, no need for the bones.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Mon May 25th, 2009, 00:56 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue March 17th, 2009, 00:14 GMT
Posts: 366
Location: London, UK
Apparently I & I is shorthand for man & god in rastafarianism. I never really got that from the song.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Mon May 25th, 2009, 01:40 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 22nd, 2009, 03:33 GMT
Posts: 554
Not John Irving wrote:
I used to like this one quite a lot, but I've grown to be less impressed. It seems to me to be an attempt to consciously try and write a mystical lyric where the substance is absent.

Obviously there are the links to Rastarfarianism and the mythical version of King David, but I don't really think the song is saying anything, though it pretends to.

I think it sounds ok, though I it does make me fondly wish that Dylan had done his take on reggae music in the mid 70s, rather than the early 80s.


When Track Talk gets around to Ain't Talkin', could somebody please repost this verbatim, with the King David and Rastafarian references edited out? Thanks! :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Mon May 25th, 2009, 12:43 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu January 24th, 2008, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 18254
Location: Where the swift don't win the race
My favorite performances were with Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers. The song is just fine...lots of interesting Biblical images and turns of phrase.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Mon May 25th, 2009, 20:35 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
Posts: 3978
Always thought it held an interesting parallel (particularly in the opening lines) with Joan Baez's LOVE SONG TO A STRANGER. I wonder if a lot 60s icons felt the same way at a certain point in their lives. Love had once been so free and then everyone became an island unto himself, always on his guard, hanging on to a shadow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Wed July 6th, 2011, 17:42 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu January 24th, 2008, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 18254
Location: Where the swift don't win the race
From the July 2, 1986 show in Akron, Ohio...

Been so long since a strange woman has slept in my bed, Bob quickly slips in "Just last night" :shock:

:lol:

I suspect very few people caught it at the time but it is very audible and as clear as a bell.

This of course was during the aforementioned tour with Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers. Overall, its a pretty consistent tour and I and I is done very well throughout. If you like one, you'll probably enjoy them all. If not, this may not be the tour for you to download lock, stock, and barrell.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Wed July 6th, 2011, 18:40 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri August 27th, 2010, 03:17 GMT
Posts: 488
Location: The Captain's Tower
I love this song, very dark and cryptic with some great phrases. It's one of those that I feel loses a lot of weight as a song in concert due to it being stripped of some of its best lines, such as this magnificent verse:

Took an untrodden path once, where the swift don’t win the race
It goes to the worthy, who can divide the word of truth
Took a stranger to teach me, to look into justice’s beautiful face
And to see an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth


That said, performance wise, it's always been stellar, except I'm not a fan of the initial performances from 1984, which to me feel kind of dead. Petty and the Heartbreakers helped give it the respect it deserves in a live treatment, and I first fell in love with the song from the True Confessions boot. 1987 saw them bring the song to even greater heights.

When the song came back in the early 1990s', it had an even darker spirit to it, similar to "Ain't Talkin'" in mood and, as a result, content. 1993 brought some very fiery renditions, with Bob giving some of the most expressive vocals of the NET, as if he's fighting through the 'smoke rings' of his mind that had obscured his artistic prowess for the last eight or so years.

The song continued on this past throughout the next two years, popping up regularly, always given a compelling and commanding reading by Bob.

All these reinventions culminated into the final, definitive performance of the song, on November 10, 1999, in New Haven, Connecticut. Not a heavy rendition by any means, but rather a more mellow, quietly sinister take on the song, with a breathy, spectre-like vocal by Bob:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1ub5sik1w ... nd%20I.m4a


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Wed July 6th, 2011, 18:57 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 18th, 2008, 06:24 GMT
Posts: 421
Location: in the german north country
feet_of_a_harlot wrote:
Nothing beats the feb 1993 versions


___________

brussels 1995 is even better :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Wed July 6th, 2011, 19:25 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun January 4th, 2009, 08:02 GMT
Posts: 16192
Location: South of the mountains of Madrid.
My memory is the year 93, when Winston W. broke his drumsticks ..... behind a red light. I would like to share with you what I feel:

http://youtu.be/TdcLGp3wOC0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Thu July 14th, 2011, 16:30 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25th, 2011, 17:35 GMT
Posts: 5573
Location: .....down by the river
"I and I" always reminded me of this quote from the Bible: when Moses asks God what should He be called:

"God said to Moses: I am Who am. Thus shall you say to the Children of Israel: He who is, has sent me to you." That is one of my favorite lines from the Bible, how cryptic can you get? So Dylanesque! ... "I am Who am."

The people of Israel thought that if you looked upon the face of Yahweh you would die. "One says to the other, no man sees my face and lives"

{This was today's Mass reading, and as always, it made me think of "I and I". Thought I had recently seen a thread on this song.}


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Thu July 14th, 2011, 17:09 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 9th, 2004, 16:38 GMT
Posts: 1539
Location: Canadee-i-o
I don't know about Rastafarianism, but the Biblical references are obvious. Myself, I always thought this song was a pretty clear-cut rumination on creativity - more specifically, the cost that art extracts from the artist.

I and I, in creation where one's nature neither honors nor fogives
I and I, one said to the other no man sees my face and lives


'Creation' could here refer to existence itself of course. But it could also refer to the ACT of artistic creation. The final line suggesting that Bob the artist (one 'I') destroys Bob the man (the other 'I').

This interpretation would seem to be confirmed by the final verse:

Noontime, I'm still pushing myself down the road to darkest parts
Into the narrow lanes, i can't stumble or stay put
Someone else is speaking with my mouth but I'm listening only to my heart
I make shoes for everyone, even you, while I still go barefoot


The split persona arises again in the penultimate line (the artist sings, the man cavils); the artist 'makes shoes,' yet has none for himself. His creations gratify the hearts of others, while he wanders - pardon the pun - unconsoled.

The other verses, with their preoccupation with loneliness and isolation, can be read as further elaborations on the emotional costs of a life given over to art, including the burdens of the road.

How God fits into all this is an interesting question, but this reading always resonated with me as a pretty coherent statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Fri July 15th, 2011, 00:24 GMT 

Joined: Mon December 6th, 2004, 08:17 GMT
Posts: 2906
I have enjoyed quite a few live versions over the years, but in my opinion none of them match the greatness of the album version.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Fri July 15th, 2011, 00:59 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu January 24th, 2008, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 18254
Location: Where the swift don't win the race
Knopfler's guitar helps make the studio a beautiful thing to behold. The tours with Petty took a reggae approach to the song. I'd love to hear a blues version. HINT. HINT. HINT.

(We all know Bob reads these boards to decide what he should do next.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Fri July 15th, 2011, 01:46 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat February 5th, 2011, 18:49 GMT
Posts: 2843
I thought the studio record was rhythmically very dull but I always liked the lyric. That's a man carrying a big load of guilt. Even his joys are joyless.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Track Talk 13: I & I
PostPosted: Fri July 15th, 2011, 13:27 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25th, 2011, 17:35 GMT
Posts: 5573
Location: .....down by the river
Lone Pilgrim wrote:
His creations gratify the hearts of others, while he wanders - pardon the pun - unconsoled.

The other verses, with their preoccupation with loneliness and isolation, can be read as further elaborations on the emotional costs of a life given over to art, including the burdens of the road.



Now, that's what I'm talkin' about ! That is a very insightful interpretation of a very cryptic song.

A few months ago a musician friend of mine asked me "Can you imagine what it must be like to be Dylan?" Truthfully, I had never given that any thought, but his remark did cause me to start thinking about it.

It seems to me that Bob has sacrified alot for his art. He is SO famous and revered that it is hard for people to even conceive of him as just a man. That must be so hard on him.

This is one thing I have wondered about: you know how Bob will just bare his soul sometimes when he is performing. But on the other hand, he doesn't want to ever have to talk about his songs.... Did you ever, say, write a really passionate letter and then be kind of embarassed to see the person you sent it to? I think that maybe Bob feels like that...he will let us all see EVERYTHING when he is singing...but then he doesn't want to have to talk about it. I wonder if that is part of his desire to be left alone. I can understand him feeling that way, and admire him for having the guts to share his most private feelings with all of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group