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PostPosted: Mon July 10th, 2017, 21:42 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Huck27 wrote:
Most of the recordings which feature chatter while he is singing seem to be of shows in the US.

...many Dylan fans in the US just chat the whole way through...


Amazing how much money these people spend to then not pay attention.

Bob was excellent at Saturday 7/8 show
but I was disappointed by audience behavior :(
The June shows I went to in NY & CT were enjoyable because people near me anyway, were respectful of others, were quiet & paid attention when Bob was performing.

The outlaw festival was the complete opposite
just 9 rows from stage, people were talking in loud voices through 99% of BD performance.
I asked people in front of me to stop talking & they got very upset.
I had to ask usher to move me
cuz they were so agitated by my request.
Staff did provide me with another good seat
But the talking, aggressive people really negatively impacted my experience at show.
no more outlaw festivals


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PostPosted: Tue September 19th, 2017, 00:17 GMT 
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European fans seems to be more verbal & excited about an impending Tour in their proximity & even elsewhere.
American attention spans seem so much shorter.

When a European Tour is announced there seems to be a long sustained buzz amongst Euro fans.
In the States, it feels like it wears off in about 3 days.
Perhaps they are just wanting for the next thing.
"Look! A squirrel!"


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PostPosted: Fri October 20th, 2017, 22:46 GMT 
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Absolutely!


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PostPosted: Fri October 20th, 2017, 22:53 GMT 
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Europeans appreciate the Internet more!


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 00:03 GMT 
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Bump


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 04:09 GMT 
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The answer to the question is: No.
Sorry, but you have to live in America to truly appreciate an American artist like Dylan. I'd say Europeans misunderstand Dylan more than Americans.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 04:32 GMT 
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Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
The answer to the question is: No.
Sorry, but you have to live in America to truly appreciate an American artist like Dylan. I'd say Europeans misunderstand Dylan more than Americans.

So wait, with that logic, because I’m not Nepali or
Tibetan, Indian, Chinese, Pakistani, Afghani or Bhutanese,
I, therefore, don’t truly appreciate, in fact I probably misunderstand the Himalaya.

Bullocks.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 07:51 GMT 
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Yes.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 07:56 GMT 
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Hmmm I am both American and Swedish......so I don't know which one of my differnet personas appreciates him the most? I have to throw a coin......


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 10:18 GMT 

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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
The answer to the question is: No.
Sorry, but you have to live in America to truly appreciate an American artist like Dylan. I'd say Europeans misunderstand Dylan more than Americans.

So wait, with that logic, because I’m not Nepali or
Tibetan, Indian, Chinese, Pakistani, Afghani or Bhutanese,
I, therefore, don’t truly appreciate, in fact I probably misunderstand the Himalaya.

I'd say yes, you (and I) will never fully 'get' the Himalayas like a native would.

And it probably holds true for Dylan. I'm British and I love Dylan's work, but I don't kid myself that I appreciate many of the cultural nuances that an American listener does.

That said, I'm also 63, and I'm convinced that younger generation listeners will never quite get Dylan in the same way as those of us who were alive in the 60s.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 11:30 GMT 
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I don´t think that (mis)understanding and appreciation relate to each other that much. I can appreciate how Mr.Bob Dylan comes forward on the stage and grab the microphone and I don´t need to understand why he does that and why just in that moment. An older American can know which other artists did that long time ago and all the technical details of the microphone construction, but I can just appreciate that I can see the embroderies on his right sleeve. And we both have no idea why he left piano and came to the centre just at that moment. And we cannot measure whose "appreciation" is bigger anyway. As to understanding - I would not dare to say I trully understand my own brother.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 13:03 GMT 
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Presently listening to one of the Verona, Italy shows from 1984 and someone near the taper chose the concert rather than the local coffee shop to carry on an extremely long, annoying, and disruptive conversation. This may not be representative of European audiences but these two individuals should have been shown the door.

I've not spent much time in Europe but given the responses to Bob's tours, I would guess he is appreciated more there than in the U.S. I know a handful of fans and of those only a couple have seen him more than once in concert. One fellow hasn't seen Dylan in 30 years or more because he wants Dylan to play the songs just like they sound on his '60s albums. My immediate and natural reaction to that comment was to beat him to a bloody froth... our friendship alone was the only thing holding me back.

Europeans appear to be more accepting to Bob's continuous evolution as an artist. It seems that too many people in the U.S. wanted him locked in his box, preferably pre-Gospel era. Of course, that would have meant missing his '80s releases, '90s output, the glorious Never Ending Tour and ModBob.

But sometimes people say these kinds of things without thinking them all the way through.


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 13:34 GMT 
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As previously noted, I think, this website, which has clearly established itself as a premier place for all things Dylan, is European. In this day and age, that fact alone carries the weight of several universes.

The closing argument, and it was an unquestioned "slam dunk"(token American slang term as crumbs for the losers), or as Bob might say, "the knockout punch", was delivered recently by the Nobel committee in their statement rationalizing their choice of singer songwriter Bob Dylan to the highest plane of appreciation for the best use of the written word - sung OR spoken. Among other breathtaking, almost "Dylanesque" statements about his vast talents and creativity, they referred to him as a modern day "Oracle of Delphi". His reaction to the whole thing, which was no surprise really, stole the show, at the time, unfortunately, but THAT statement, to me, WAS the show.


Nobel Committee: Bob Dylan 'Changed Our Idea of What Poetry Can Be'


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nobel-committee-bob-dylan-changed-our-idea-of-poetry-w455063


Anybody home?


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PostPosted: Fri December 15th, 2017, 13:48 GMT 

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You should also bear in mind that we Europeans (and yes, I do consider myself European, Brexit x notwithstanding) enjoy a lot of 'Americana' - in which category I include Dylan - precisely BECAUSE it's slighty mysterious to us. I've never experienced a Minnesota winter or a Durango summer, but Bob's music can transport me to those places, even if only partially, and in a way which is less complete than it would be to a native.


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PostPosted: Sat December 16th, 2017, 03:14 GMT 
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Can we all agree that there is a significant difference between appreciation and obsession?

Remember, America is a European experiment. Americans are like guinea pigs. How could a person who has spent most or all of their life living in Europe truly grasp the meaning behind lines such as Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it, said the neighbor, It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget?


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PostPosted: Sat December 16th, 2017, 10:10 GMT 
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Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
The answer to the question is: No.
Sorry, but you have to live in America to truly appreciate an American artist like Dylan. I'd say Europeans misunderstand Dylan more than Americans.

Hmm I really doubt that's true. First, parts of American culture are foreign
to many Americans, just because it's such a vast & culturally diverse nation
and secondly because even recent history gets buried under volumes of
quickly evolving popular media culture. Many American millennials would
not have a clue what Dylan was on about through much of his catalogue.

If you're well read and have an interest in US history & Americana, I don't
think it makes much of a difference. After all, one of the unique aspects of
US culture is the prolific way in which it is documented through film, music
& written word (Dylan's story being no exception in this regard).

I do think spending time in the US does help somewhat, some of the physical
elements of the country fall into place in a different way. But it hardly
illuminated Dylan's work. The very thing that makes Dylan's output so universal
is that it illuminates itself in the mind, and takes on a life of its own,
regardless of culture, location and (as will be proven in years to come) time.


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PostPosted: Sat December 16th, 2017, 16:14 GMT 
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Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
Can we all agree that there is a significant difference between appreciation and obsession?

Remember, America is a European experiment. Americans are like guinea pigs. How could a person who has spent most or all of their life living in Europe truly grasp the meaning behind lines such as Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it, said the neighbor, It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget?





"Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it, said the neighbor, It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget"

And this quote has some type of "American" slant to it?? Is that some type of sick joke?

Unfortunately, you are obviously lost in some type of haze. Bob Dylan is a worldwide phenomenon because his words have a "universality" to them. They go to the very core of human existence and experience, even when translated into other languages.



"Americans are like guinea pigs" - and you have all the insight of a pile of rocks.


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PostPosted: Sat December 16th, 2017, 16:28 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
Remember, America is a European experiment. Americans are like guinea pigs. How could a person who has spent most or all of their life living in Europe truly grasp the meaning behind lines such as Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it, said the neighbor, It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget?





"Well, there’s nothin’ we can do about it, said the neighbor, It’s just somethin’ we’re gonna have to forget"

And this quote has some type of "American" slant to it?? Is that some type of sick joke?

Unfortunately, you are obviously lost in some type of haze. Bob Dylan is a worldwide phenomenon because his words have a "universality" to them. They go to the very core of human existence and experience, even when translated into other languages.



"Americans are like guinea pigs" - and you have all the insight of a pile of rocks.

Yeah,
Americans are way more like cattle than guinea pigs!


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PostPosted: Sun December 17th, 2017, 22:11 GMT 
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"I asked John Gilmore about the collectors frenzy for Sun Ra originals in 1994 when he was leading the orchestra. He said, "that's just elitism."
- Peter Dennett.


And so it goes with Dylan. Collecting Dylan has little to do with appreciating Dylan.

*
Appreciation vs obsession:
To appreciate Dylan is to NOT write a bunch of books about Dylan.
Clinton Heylin, for example, is a European who is obsessed with Dylan but seems to have little appreciation for Dylan. Circling Dylan like a vulture, picking the bones of his life and work, attaching himself to Dylan's name in order to build a career for himself, Heylin could certainly be seen as unappreciative. He could accurately be described as parasitic. Heylin seems to believe that organizing statistics is a way to appreciate and understand a distinctly American music artist such as Dylan. He's misguided. He's far, far away from the roots of American music/life. Too far to appreciate it's essence. Obviously.

Has anyone ever called Heylin "Judas"? Would they bother?

"I don't talk about Bob, that's why we are friends" - Tom Petty


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 01:23 GMT 
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Correction:

In the previous post-
"it's" should have been "its"

Sorry for any inconvenience.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 02:56 GMT 
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Whoa, thanks for setting that straight Lectricity!
Now I can rest assured.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 03:04 GMT 

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Trying to judge levels of appreciation by different audiences is like making comparisons, both are pointless and odious pursuits.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 09:52 GMT 
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Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
"I asked John Gilmore about the collectors frenzy for Sun Ra originals in 1994 when he was leading the orchestra. He said, "that's just elitism."
- Peter Dennett.


And so it goes with Dylan. Collecting Dylan has little to do with appreciating Dylan.

*
Appreciation vs obsession:
To appreciate Dylan is to NOT write a bunch of books about Dylan.
Clinton Heylin, for example, is a European who is obsessed with Dylan but seems to have little appreciation for Dylan. Circling Dylan like a vulture, picking the bones of his life and work, attaching himself to Dylan's name in order to build a career for himself, Heylin could certainly be seen as unappreciative. He could accurately be described as parasitic. Heylin seems to believe that organizing statistics is a way to appreciate and understand a distinctly American music artist such as Dylan. He's misguided. He's far, far away from the roots of American music/life. Too far to appreciate it's essence. Obviously.

Has anyone ever called Heylin "Judas"? Would they bother?

"I don't talk about Bob, that's why we are friends" - Tom Petty

Still, Bob Dylan Inc has embraced, out of all biographers, Clinton Heylin.
Look at how they opened up to Heylin with Boot 13 and gave him exposure.
In part it's because they feel that they can trust Heylin to an extend. They
feel his interest is in Dylan's legacy and work, and not in digging up salacious
personal detail.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 12:01 GMT 
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Just a guess, but it seems like Heylin is appreciating Bob more than ever.
And he’s a Euro.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 15:43 GMT 

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Europeans obviously do not understand Dylan. How could they? They try to act like they appreciate him, but its all a farce.


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