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PostPosted: Sat October 7th, 2017, 20:21 GMT 
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Haha. Well. It mostly annoys me. But if you want to follow Stan, it’s where he’s posting.


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PostPosted: Sat October 7th, 2017, 23:47 GMT 
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On a 'historical' level, JWH opens a completely new trend for Bob - probably the greatest artistic revolution he's ever undergone. Even today, on latest albums like Time Out Of Mind, you can still see faint echoes of the same vibe, dimmed and subdued by the lengthy years, but not spent altogether. JWH was the first album that saw the light of the day after Bob did likewise after his infamous accident, missing the 'Summer Of Love' in the process, and it shows the man completely rejecting his past and adopting an altogether new style: hitting the country. But 'hitting the country' does not imply he adopted the well-known, banal, Band-style country. Just as well this does not mean the slightly cheesy, luvvly country style that Bob developed a year later, with Nashville Skyline, and went on to 'globalize' on Selfportrait. Both of these records were good and charming in their own way, but, after all, straightforward country is just plain straightforward country, independent of the player's originality, professional skills or emotional state. JWH, however, is different.

Difference number one is made by the incredible production of the record. Dylan dismisses all the lush arrangements he excelled in on Blonde and strips everything down, once again limiting himself to plain acoustic guitar and harmonica. And yet, this is not a return to the trusty folkie days of old: there is a rhythm section present on this record, with Charles McCoy on bass and Kenny Buttrey on drums. It might not be a great combo, but it sounds nothing like The Freewheelin', anyway. And when you listen to any selected song, you really get the impression that the guitar doesn't matter all that much: Bob rarely plays any interesting fills like he used to, for the most part sticking to simple, unadorned rhythm. The main accent is placed on his voice and harmonica playing, and this is where detailed attention should be paid. Now I don't know if the motorcycle accident really messed poor Mr Zimmerman's vocal cords, but fact is, he sounds far more whiny and pitiful than he did before - and I don't attribute that exclusively to the style he adopted; his voice was certainly changing, be it due to the accident or heavy smoking. But where it had lost in force and, perhaps, tolerability from the casual listener, it has more than gained in expressivity. With just a single line, any single line that starts any of the tracks on here, he's able to set a unique and mind-blowing mood, whether it be a depressive one, an angry one, a funny one, a romantic one or a preachy one.

And the harmonica? Mark Prindle once complained about its 'ugliness' and the fact that it was mixed way too loud, but I certainly can't share his feelings here, nor would I ever want to. To put it short, Bob's harmonica playing has never been better - before or since. While I always loved his harmonica solos, I must say that this is the first album where a harmonica solo is not treated simply as performing the function of an obligatory instrumental break. Instead, the harmonica sound brilliantly complements the song - it's as if the harmonica were taking on the function of Bob's voice for a while, agreeing to substitute whatever mood he was trying to set with the actual singing while Bob himself was taking a rest. And in that sense, the production is awesome: bringing the instrument out to the same level of loudness as Bob's voice only serves to accentuate the friendly 'competition' between the singer and the instrument.

The second difference is even grander, though: Bob completely changes his attitude. Where he once sang angry, protesting anthems, or brain-muddling, psycho songs that were still rooted in being in complete disagreement with the ways of modern society, he now sings about 19th century America and its problems, churning out most of the songs in a humble, almost self-deprecating, tone. Dylan the Protest Singer and Dylan the Trippy Freak now gives way to Dylan the Humble Preacher. In a certain way, that's the image he's had ever since; but on JWH, he combines it with such important elements as intriguing mystery, compelling storytelling, and visions of the country's past life, so that the preachiness never comes out boring or banal. Instead, it's as addictive as can be.

The soaring anthem 'All Along The Watchtower', you're bound to know this one. Unfortunately, you probably know it due to the Hendrix cover which gets tons of airplay and has already equalled its position as one of the most overplayed 'classic rock' numbers, along with 'Stairway To Heaven' and 'Pinball Wizard' and suchlike. Now don't get me wrong: I like the Hendrix cover good as anybody. But I don't feel it is correct to really compare the two numbers, as Hendrix essentially took a Dylan number and edited the 'Dylan' out of it: the lyrics are the same, of course (if you neglect the fact that Jimi often contended himself with just one verse in concert, forgetting the others), but the overall feel, the message, the mood, everything else is completely different. The Dylan song in question is all built around that soft silky mystical aura that overfills JWH, and the beautiful, almost bewitching harmonica solos in between the verses set a mood full of little medieval charms: it isn't even about America, it's about the Dark Ages. 'Country-goth', I'd call it, a style never reproduced after. The Hendrix version is more of a regular psychedelic tune with wild guitar heroics, quite typical of Jimi; there's nothing mysterious or so vastly compelling there, except the soloing techniques...

GEORGE STAROSTIN


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PostPosted: Sun October 8th, 2017, 09:06 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
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John B. Stetson wrote:
Haha. Well. It mostly annoys me. But if you want to follow Stan, it’s where he’s posting.

Okay, but how do you find him?

Typing "Long John" into the search engine doesn't generate very useful results.

And typing "Stan" don't work either.

I tried "Man who really hates Dylan's NET performances", but that had 7.3 million hits....


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PostPosted: Sun October 8th, 2017, 15:01 GMT 
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Stan Denski


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PostPosted: Sun October 8th, 2017, 15:04 GMT 
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I've seen Stan on Facebook. Not the same in that context.
Prefered him pontificating in our little ER world but alas, things have changed. :lol: 8)


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PostPosted: Sun October 8th, 2017, 20:55 GMT 

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jimb727 wrote:
I've seen Stan on Facebook. Not the same in that context.
Prefered him pontificating in our little ER world but alas, things have changed. :lol: 8)

Thanks Jim


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PostPosted: Mon October 9th, 2017, 06:46 GMT 
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John Wesley Harding is the great album that non-Dylan fans will never think is great (boring, no choruses, no 'hits', too same-sounding).

Conversely, for that exact reason, it's the great Dylan album that Dylan-fans (many of whom are snobs) grossly over-rate.

In fact, I would say it is a great album -- one of his best, by songwriting standards -- but it's not better than 4 of the albums that preceded it (including the 3 immediately prior), and therefore it's a bit disingenuous to call it a "masterpiece" when it's really a slight let-down.

Being Dylan, of course, the whole thing is inexplicable. Bringing... and Blonde on Blonde are really diverse -- JWH is almost anti-diverse, as every song sounds the same (except maybe the last one). 'The Basement Tapes', which almost runs into the start of JWH, was awash with big, catchy choruses on the songs -- JWH has no choruses to any of the songs. 'The Basement Tapes' has mostly throwaway lyrics over big tunes -- JWH started with carefully crafted lyrics over mostly throwaway three-chord melodies. JWH's songs are also mostly played with a capo high on Dylan's guitar, giving it the austere, ringing sound its known for -- something he had never really done before. The voice and highly-mixed harp also make it sound different from everything prior.

Great album, but a little one-note. Not quite the best of the best, but certainly way better than most of them.


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PostPosted: Mon October 9th, 2017, 06:55 GMT 

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It's the three albums that preceded it, apart from the acoustic side of BIABH, that are relatively over-rated. There, I've said it.


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PostPosted: Mon October 9th, 2017, 09:03 GMT 
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Wonderful, intelligent, thoughtful comments and I agree with all of them. JWH is still my favourite album after all these years. :roll: :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon October 9th, 2017, 12:45 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
It's the three albums that preceded it, apart from the acoustic side of BIABH, that are relatively over-rated. There, I've said it.

I think Dylan's recordings in general are a bit over-rated by music scribes and Dylanophiles in general. (Dylan's entire ouvre itself is not over-rated, by distinction, but his recording career is patchy.)

As far as JWH and the studio albums go, I'd probably say the really, really good ones are:
1. Bringing It All Back Home
2. Freewheelin'
3A. Blonde on Blonde
3B. Blood on The Tracks
3C. Desire
6. John Wesley Harding
7. The Times They are A-Changin'

On the heels of these would be Another Side, The Basement Tapes (in some form or other), Nashville Skyline, New Morning, Infidels, and Oh Mercy (the latter two destroyed by Dylan's idiotic track selection).


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PostPosted: Mon October 9th, 2017, 17:28 GMT 

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panther wrote:
Mickvet wrote:
It's the three albums that preceded it, apart from the acoustic side of BIABH, that are relatively over-rated. There, I've said it.

I think Dylan's recordings in general are a bit over-rated by music scribes and Dylanophiles in general. (Dylan's entire ouvre itself is not over-rated, by distinction, but his recording career is patchy.)

As far as JWH and the studio albums go, I'd probably say the really, really good ones are:
1. Bringing It All Back Home
2. Freewheelin'
3A. Blonde on Blonde
3B. Blood on The Tracks
3C. Desire
6. John Wesley Harding
7. The Times They are A-Changin'

On the heels of these would be Another Side, The Basement Tapes (in some form or other), Nashville Skyline, New Morning, Infidels, and Oh Mercy (the latter two destroyed by Dylan's idiotic track selection).


I didn't mean to knock the three mid-sixties albums. They are all excellent, but I think he has produced so many other fine albums that I no longer automatically think of them as top of the pile.

All your favourite albums that you have selected above are fine, but I would have more of a predilection for his later material. I put Tempest in my top five, along with BIABH, BOOT, JWH and a variable that can change from one day to the next.


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PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 11:38 GMT 

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Mickvet wrote:
panther wrote:
It's the three albums that preceded it, apart from the acoustic side of BIABH, that are relatively over-rated. There, I've said it.

I think Dylan's recordings in general are a bit over-rated by music scribes and Dylanophiles in general. (Dylan's entire ouvre itself is not over-rated, by distinction, but his recording career is patchy.)

As far as JWH and the studio albums go, I'd probably say the really, really good ones are:
1. Bringing It All Back Home
2. Freewheelin'
3A. Blonde on Blonde
3B. Blood on The Tracks
3C. Desire
6. John Wesley Harding
7. The Times They are A-Changin'

On the heels of these would be Another Side, The Basement Tapes (in some form or other), Nashville Skyline, New Morning, Infidels, and Oh Mercy (the latter two destroyed by Dylan's idiotic track selection).


I didn't mean to knock the three mid-sixties albums. They are all excellent, but I think he has produced so many other fine albums that I no longer automatically think of them as top of the pile.

All your favourite albums that you have selected above are fine, but I would have more of a predilection for his later material. I put Tempest in my top five, along with BIABH, BOOT, JWH and a variable that can change from one day to the next.


I would struggle to see how anyone could possibly 'over-rate' that golden mid 60s trio - unless, say, they claimed listening to them could cure cancer.

As for the others, my Top Ten greatest Dylan albums would certainly include JWH, BOTT, and Desire. It would also, without a shadow of a doubt, include "Love and Theft". I'd struggle with TOOM as losing it would mean ignoring the 'Big Four' from that album, songs which are crucial to late period Dylan and, imho, can stand with almost anything he has done post 60s, including BOTT.


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PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 12:14 GMT 
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This is yhe 2nd time I see someone referring to TOOMs big four. What is this universally accepted big 4, please?
My 4 favorites are probably Love sick, Not dark yet, Trying to get to heaven and Highlands. TTGTH would be replaced by Cant wait if they had included the tell tale signs version


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PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 12:25 GMT 

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wormington wrote:
This is yhe 2nd time I see someone referring to TOOMs big four. What is this universally accepted big 4, please?
My 4 favorites are probably Love sick, Not dark yet, Trying to get to heaven and Highlands. TTGTH would be replaced by Cant wait if they had included the tell tale signs version


The Big Four are deemed to be Not Dark Yet, Tryin to get to Heaven, Standing in the Doorway, and Highlands. That has been the consensus since soon after the album came out, and to be fair, I do share that view. Love Sick didn't make the cut, sorry, but personally I always liked it and still do.

When "Love and Theft" came out, it took me a while to start thinking of it as superior to TOOM, but I gradually came to value its consistency. TOOM has the really big songs (only Mississippi would compete, form L&T), but "Love and Theft" is a better album overall. But, really, you need them both.


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PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 13:52 GMT 
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What? No Love sick?! Down with this Big four! DOWN, I SAY!!


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PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 14:33 GMT 

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wormington wrote:
What? No Love sick?! Down with this Big four! DOWN, I SAY!!


Heh. Well, I would argue that, much as I like Love Sick, it cannot compete with the Big Four. Still, it's way better than the album's weakest tracks. The difference with "Love and Theft" is that it doesn't have any weak tracks.


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PostPosted: Fri December 8th, 2017, 05:58 GMT 

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Was thinking about this since in the "What Album Concert Would You Want To Hear" JWH was mentioned a few times. Out of all the 60s records, this one must work best as an entire Album. No filler and a connecting thread woven in each song. It all fits perfectly. As prolific as his other albums were, I might take this as his best of the decade. At the very least it's the one I've come back to most often.

A part of me thinks Dylan could do an album like this again, if he wanted to. He said since Tempest that he wanted to do a more religious/spiritual album, and I don't think he meant an album like Slow Train Coming. He did it in some ways with Tempest (If I tried digging even deeper I bet there'd be a lot more that I just haven't picked up on yet), but that's a markedly different album than JWH. I also don't think he would just want to due covers of spiritual songs, though we are three albums deep in American Standards so maybe it's not such a crazy idea. But at the same time I'd have to be crazy to believe that he would actually WANT to repeat himself like that, and actively make an album that's similar to anything he's done in the past.

I always can get lost with this record. I might pick songs to listen to off of Highway 61 or Blonde on Blonde, but with this record I almost always listen from start to finish. To me, it can easily sit in the top 5 Dylan records. I also think As I Went Out One Morning might be one of the best songs on the album, a very underrated track.

I need to put this on in the morning!


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PostPosted: Fri December 8th, 2017, 06:46 GMT 
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wormington wrote:
JWH never clicked for me, I like but don´t love it, not sure why, other than it´s a pretty "dry" record, without the colorful arrangements of it´s predecessors and successors. But I can tell it´s a quality album.
I shall for sure persevere with it and hope one day I can join all the praise here!

I (for once) took my own advice and have been spinning this one quite regularly lately, and it is starting to click, and I think it still has more to offer. Very, very nice.
And that base line from As I went out one morning is the bees knees.
Tan-tan-ta-taaaaaum-tam Tan-tan-ta-taaaaaum-tam


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PostPosted: Fri December 8th, 2017, 07:53 GMT 
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JWH has always been in my top 4 Dylan albums. Depending on my mood it can be top of the bunch, alternating with Blonde On Blonde, Blood On The Tracks and Highway 61. It was the first Dylan album I bought at the time of release, I was working in the local Co-op store and the rep from CBS gave me a spare copy to borrow. I was hooked from the first time I heard it, bought the original Mono version on vinyl and then got Greatest Hits Vol 1 and then slowly backtracked in no specific order. I still have that vinyl album and the first UK CD release, both sound fine. The CD version in the Mono box set is pretty good as well. Difficult to name a favourite track, there's so many and that's an indication of a good album. In my book anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat December 9th, 2017, 02:24 GMT 

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Dylan's original version of All Along the Watchtower sounds claustrophobic to me, in a good way. Like your trapped in the room with the joker and the thief. I can't think of many other songs of his that do that, maybe Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.

I just heard the Black Keys cover of the Wicked Messenger on the radio. Interesting to hear what they did with it


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PostPosted: Sat December 9th, 2017, 22:45 GMT 
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All Along The Watchtower is a masterpiece. The rest of the album does not reach these heights. The vocal melodies are not particularly fresh (in 1967 or 2017) or exciting. The lyrics are filled with Biblical references that add up to not much. Not unlike the Bible itself. There's a lot of words that can be interpreted in any way the listener wants to interpret them. That's fine. But what was the moral of the Ballad Of Frankie Lee And Judas Priest and why did it take so many verses to get to it? I helped my neighbor carry a couch out of his house last week. Pretty straight forward. The Bible could have been a chapbook.


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PostPosted: Sun December 10th, 2017, 00:47 GMT 

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Ghost Of Lectricity wrote:
All Along The Watchtower is a masterpiece. The rest of the album does not reach these heights. The vocal melodies are not particularly fresh (in 1967 or 2017) or exciting. The lyrics are filled with Biblical references that add up to not much. Not unlike the Bible itself. There's a lot of words that can be interpreted in any way the listener wants to interpret them. That's fine. But what was the moral of the Ballad Of Frankie Lee And Judas Priest and why did it take so many verses to get to it? I helped my neighbor carry a couch out of his house last week. Pretty straight forward. The Bible could have been a chapbook.


There's actually an outtake from the sessions , "Frankie Lee and Judas Priest (move Frankie's Couch)" that is considerably shorter than the original version :lol:

I get what you mean though, I think that might be the weakest link in the album. I still like it though. Also All Along the Watchtower is brilliant, I agree. So much packed into such a short song


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PostPosted: Sun December 10th, 2017, 12:06 GMT 
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My personal favorite. Interesting to consider why he didn’t record this with the Band. I’ve always regarded it as the apogee and distillation of the Basement Tapes period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sat December 30th, 2017, 11:56 GMT 
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Looking doubtful that the Euro Copyright thing will drive any outtakes to be released for this one.
Oh well...might as well reminisce then.

How Bob Dylan Crafted a Minimal New Sound on 'John Wesley Harding'
A year after his motorcycle accident, Dylan made a radical turn toward cryptic, austere country-folk
Bob Dylan collaborators discuss the austere new sound heard on 1967's 'John Wesley Harding.'

By Simon Vozick-Levinson- 18 hours ago

In the autumn of 1967, Bob Dylan took a mysterious trip to Nashville. "As I recall, it was just on a kind of whim that Bob went down," Robbie Robertson, who had spent much of that summer wood shedding with Dylan and the rest of the Band in upstate New York, would later say. To this day, no one knows for sure when Dylan wrote many of the 12 songs he recorded on his secretive visit. He hadn't played a single one of them during his mythic sessions in the basement of "Big Pink" near Woodstock that year, and he reputedly composed several of the best new tunes ("The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest," "I Dreamed I Saw St. Augustine" and "Drifter's Escape") during his two-day train ride from New York to Nashville. Once there, he knocked out his eighth album in just three sessions in a local studio. "We did the whole thing in nine, nine and a half hours," says Charlie McCoy, who returned from the Blonde on Blonde sessions to play bass on the new material. "He was focused. And he never used a lyric sheet. To memorize those lyrics, with all those double meanings, was impressive."

John Wesley Harding came as a shock to fans, and decades later, it stands alone in Dylan's discography – a hard pivot away from the revolutionary rock & roll masterpieces that preceded it, and equally distant from anything else he'd done or would do. Its tightly crafted country-folk songs lack traditional choruses but teem with cryptic tales and strange warnings. "There was to be no wasted language, no wasted breath," Allen Ginsberg later said of the approach to songwriting that Dylan adopted after Blonde on Blonde. "All the imagery was to be functional rather than ornamental." Dylan himself traced the change to his 1966 motorcycle crash: "I thought I was just gonna get up and go back to doing what I was doing before," he recalled in 1969. "But I couldn't do it anymore."

Dylan began incorporating explicit religious language into his lyrics; much has been made of Beatty Zimmerman's report around this time that her son kept "a huge Bible open on a stand in the middle of his study." The death of Dylan's early idol Woody Guthrie, on October 3rd, 1967, less than a month before recording began, may well have influenced songs like "I Dreamed I Saw St. Augustine" (a surreal riff on the labor-rally folk standard "Joe Hill").

The sound of the album was bracingly austere, which Dylan later explained as a reaction to the "very indulgent" psychedelic orchestration of albums like the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Casting aside his own ambitious arrangements on the previous year's Blonde on Blonde, he called back only two of his sidemen from that album – McCoy on bass and Kenny Buttrey on drums – and kept his interactions with them at a bare minimum. "He didn't talk to us, which was unusual," McCoy says. "Just did not communicate. I think he appreciated what we were doing. It was hard to tell."

It was a stark shift away from the late-night carnival atmosphere of the Blonde on Blonde sessions – but as the songs made clear, that Dylan was long gone.


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/feat ... ng-w514816


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PostPosted: Mon January 1st, 2018, 21:18 GMT 
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Simon Vozick-Levinson is a mediocre writer and a worse listener. Does he even know what a song arrangement is?

Heavily arranged material does not usually contain tentative sounding note choices by studio musicians who are learning the song changes on the fly. It certainly does not feature musicians hitting arbitrary notes when they think they know which chord is coming next but don't really know. (Need an example? If so you are not very familiar with Blonde on Blonde. Start with SELOTL). JWH sounds more arranged than its predecessor. Maybe the simple song structures were just much easier to absorb in the amount of time given to learn them for the small band he had assembled.

Quoting Rolling Advertisement Magazine is generally a bad idea. Frankie Lee, Drifter's Escape and St Augustine are not 3 of the best songs on JWH. Not even close.


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