Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Mon September 24th, 2018, 19:31 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 12:39 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
Outakes; they're mostly better than the released album, surely? Listened to the the alternate version of Tangled Up In Blue

and for me it's far superior to the album version- lovely feel to it and better lyrics and I also prefer the more melancholic

version of Idiot Wind. Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?

The most notorious example being the inexplicable of Bling Willie McTell from the Infidels album. Now that was unforgivable.


Last edited by charlesdarwin on Tue July 26th, 2016, 05:45 GMT, edited 1 time in total.
Merging two identical threads on Blood on the Tracks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 14:06 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun November 18th, 2012, 18:29 GMT
Posts: 3157
Location: Besós River Shore
I think the NY versions of the songs he recorded again in Minneapolis are really great and strong versions. But when I listen the test pressing of BOTT... is another thing. A quiet and soft album, another album. Nothing to do with the published BOTT.
I've always thought that the official BOTT, the whole thing, the album itself, is highly superior than the only NY BOTT.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 14:21 GMT 

Joined: Sun April 1st, 2007, 10:39 GMT
Posts: 466
for me the same. The cool and at the same time emphatic/sensitive/wounded way he sings on the official version for me makes the precious difference and understandable why he recorded songs later again. A difference between great and ingenious.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:05 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 17478
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
Whatever his mistakes, it's amazing how many people second guess even albums considered among the best ever made. The early Tangled is a beautiful thing, but the original release had a swing and majesty that made it one of Dylan's most enduring recordings to the general public. As of 2016, it probably gets more radio play than other Dylan recording, including the mighty Like A Rolling Stone, and for good reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:13 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11735
Location: brighton uk
As a relative 'newbie' in these parts I wonder if Johnny Reality is aware of the half-speed master release, where the speeded-up versions we all assumed were correct for all those years are put right? BOTT (the official version) should have played about 3% slower, and sounds like a different album (better, amazingly enough).

I do agree regarding Tangled and Idiot Wind (not the version on BS 1-3, but the organ one) - the NYC takes have superior lyrics and superior mood. I've said it before, but it is almost like improving on perfection, which should be impossible, but Bob does it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:14 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun November 18th, 2012, 18:29 GMT
Posts: 3157
Location: Besós River Shore
I am with the original release. I hope I made my self clear in my first post in this thread. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:19 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11735
Location: brighton uk
Senyor Timbaler wrote:
I am with the original release. I hope I made my self clear in my first post in this thread. :D


They are, indeed, like different albums. I love the official release (though I'd choose the half-speed master every time), but to me the NYC sessions from the test pressing have an even more personal edge to them, and I prefer the original lyrics too; abandoning the references to the I-Ching was a mistake in my view. Thank goodness we don't actually have to choose! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:21 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 7th, 2014, 22:20 GMT
Posts: 115
Location: PA
I have always been liked the outtakes better. I very rarely listen to the released album. Something like once a year, maybe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 15:23 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11735
Location: brighton uk
johnnyreality wrote:
... Bling Willie McTell


That is the best typo I have seen in ages - brilliant! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 16:17 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 29th, 2006, 14:41 GMT
Posts: 5349
Location: In the middle
I've never liked the Minnesota recordings, (but I haven't heard the 'halfspeed').

My BOTT currently runs like this:

Tangled up in blue (BS1-3)
Simple twist of fate
You're a big girl now (Biograph)
Idiot Wind (test pressing)
If you see her, say hell (tp)
Shelter from the storm
Buckets of rain


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 16:40 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
slimtimslide wrote:
johnnyreality wrote:
... Bling Willie McTell


That is the best typo I have seen in ages - brilliant! :lol:


Well he did like dressing up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 17:00 GMT 

Joined: Thu September 19th, 2013, 18:24 GMT
Posts: 216
I think the lyrics on the released BOTT are substantially better than the earlier versions - which are also great! They're all marvelous - but no, the outtakes are not all "surely" better. I haven't so far spent enough time with the half-speed master to notice any special difference. But I received my copy just as I was edging out of an intensive Dylan phase; someday I'll focus on it, and we shall see.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 17:35 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon September 8th, 2014, 11:02 GMT
Posts: 1335
Location: Tiresome Town
I like pretty much everything about Blood on The Tracks. The outtakes - 'Up To Me' and 'Call Letter Blues' - are wonderful. The alternate takes are great - even with the rattling of Dylan's cuff-links! The speed-corrected Half-Speed Master is pure joy. Side 2 of the Hard Rain album is as good as it gets. The recent re-writes are fascinating, too. Good god, even the official album that is often cited as one of the greatest albums ever made isn't half bad.

What exactly is there to argue about here?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 18:03 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 16th, 2016, 17:00 GMT
Posts: 714
Location: Homer, AK
He's never satisfied with anything so I'm hoping for a re-recorded new release of Blood on the tracks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 18:17 GMT 

Joined: Thu December 8th, 2011, 15:10 GMT
Posts: 571
slimtimslide wrote:
As a relative 'newbie' in these parts I wonder if Johnny Reality is aware of the half-speed master release, where the speeded-up versions we all assumed were correct for all those years are put right? BOTT (the official version) should have played about 3% slower, and sounds like a different album (better, amazingly enough).

I do agree regarding Tangled and Idiot Wind (not the version on BS 1-3, but the organ one) - the NYC takes have superior lyrics and superior mood. I've said it before, but it is almost like improving on perfection, which should be impossible, but Bob does it.


I know this might be a stupid question, but if as I have read many times BOTT runs to fast. Why has it never been corrected? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 18:45 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
When BOTT was first released it received quite a lot of criticism but as my friends and I listened to it we

couldn't quite work out quite what the objections were- were the critics listening to a different album, we wondered?

Many years later -possibly because I heard the official album so damned often in those days- I find I prefer the alternate versions.

I'm not having a dig at the official album- I recall people who really did not like Dylan telling me that they thought this album was one

of the best they'd heard.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 18:57 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 09:04 GMT
Posts: 11335
Some of the most knowledgeable and critically astute among the posters here make eloquent claims for the New York Sessions and for the half-speed re-master, some of them have even posted in this very thread. It’s with some trepidation that I disagree, but I have to go with BOTT as originally released. Why? Well, to me that is, despite flaws and mistakes, it’s the record Dylan made and released. It’s the record he’s been happy to have out for the last forty one years. It’s a work of genius in my opinion and you can’t second guess genius.

Having said that, I think it is a beautiful culmination of a certain strand of singer songwriterly introspection , but ultimately a dead end. It has the density and texture of a collection of short stories or a book of poetry and I’m not sure that is what is required in a popular music record. I think the record has been misunderstood and led many of Dylan’s epigones (great word, look it up and amaze your friends and loved ones as you slip it into conversation) up the same blind alley. Is it the best album ever made by a singer songwriter and one of the musical peaks of the last hundred years though? In my opinion, probably yes.

Dylan and his brother recognised that the album was too dark, subdued and samey in it’s original configuration and made the inspired decision to re-record some of the tracks in Minneapolis. That decision, incidentally proving David Zimmerman to be an excellent brother and Dylan himself to be a true collaborative artist opened the album out, depressurised it to some extent and made it universal and timeless.

I understand why people appreciate the intimate, painful rawness of the New York sessions, they value the authenticity they represent - I prefer the mediated version as released because by opening it out it makes the beautiful work of art about my life and all our lives too. It alludes to wider and deeper concerns - Like Marvell’s poem “To his coy mistress” at one level it’s a very personal attempt on Marvell’s part to get his girl into bed, but as “all before us lie deserts of vast Eternity” it’s also about time and mutability, how we spend our tiny flickering moment when we are out of the encompassing dark. Blood on the Tracks shares that with us too.

I could go on and on, but I’ve no wish to bore people. I will say though that whatever anyone wants to say about The Set. The version of Tangled Up In Blue was one of the most profoundly moving musical experiences of my life - which just goes to prove …err, something or another…


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 19:22 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon September 8th, 2014, 11:02 GMT
Posts: 1335
Location: Tiresome Town
I prefer a hyphen in 'singer-songwriter'. So, sadly, your post won't be nominated for the Post of the Week award.


Last edited by littlemaggie on Fri July 22nd, 2016, 19:36 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 19:30 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 29th, 2006, 14:41 GMT
Posts: 5349
Location: In the middle
charlesdarwin wrote:
epigones


I feel a paradigm shift coming on!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 20:25 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon September 8th, 2014, 11:02 GMT
Posts: 1335
Location: Tiresome Town
johnnyreality wrote:
... they're mostly better than the released album, surely? Listened to the the alternate version of Tangled Up In Blue

and for me it's far superior to the album version- lovely feel to it and better lyrics and I also prefer the more melancholic

version of Idiot Wind. Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?

The most notorious example being the inexplicable of Bling Willie McTell from the Infidels album. Now that was unforgivable.



Just checking if this post makes sense.

You are obviously saying that Blood on the Tracks would have been a better record if it had been the version with the New York versions of the songs that were re-recorded for the released version. A fair enough opinion, if not one that has been shared a million times on the internet. But then you say "Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?" and cite 'Blind Willie McTell' from the Infidels album as an example. It wasn't on that album.

What are you on about?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri July 22nd, 2016, 22:22 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri April 1st, 2011, 19:41 GMT
Posts: 480
charlesdarwin wrote:
Some of the most knowledgeable and critically astute among the posters here make eloquent claims for the New York Sessions and for the half-speed re-master, some of them have even posted in this very thread. It’s with some trepidation that I disagree, but I have to go with BOTT as originally released. Why? Well, to me that is, despite flaws and mistakes, it’s the record Dylan made and released. It’s the record he’s been happy to have out for the last forty one years. It’s a work of genius in my opinion and you can’t second guess genius.

Having said that, I think it is a beautiful culmination of a certain strand of singer songwriterly introspection , but ultimately a dead end. It has the density and texture of a collection of short stories or a book of poetry and I’m not sure that is what is required in a popular music record. I think the record has been misunderstood and led many of Dylan’s epigones (great word, look it up and amaze your friends and loved ones as you slip it into conversation) up the same blind alley. Is it the best album ever made by a singer songwriter and one of the musical peaks of the last hundred years though? In my opinion, probably yes.

Dylan and his brother recognised that the album was too dark, subdued and samey in it’s original configuration and made the inspired decision to re-record some of the tracks in Minneapolis. That decision, incidentally proving David Zimmerman to be an excellent brother and Dylan himself to be a true collaborative artist opened the album out, depressurised it to some extent and made it universal and timeless.

I understand why people appreciate the intimate, painful rawness of the New York sessions, they value the authenticity they represent - I prefer the mediated version as released because by opening it out it makes the beautiful work of art about my life and all our lives too. It alludes to wider and deeper concerns - Like Marvell’s poem “To his coy mistress” at one level it’s a very personal attempt on Marvell’s part to get his girl into bed, but as “all before us lie deserts of vast Eternity” it’s also about time and mutability, how we spend our tiny flickering moment when we are out of the encompassing dark. Blood on the Tracks shares that with us too.

I could go on and on, but I’ve no wish to bore people. I will say though that whatever anyone wants to say about The Set. The version of Tangled Up In Blue was one of the most profoundly moving musical experiences of my life - which just goes to prove …err, something or another…


Thanks for your knowledge, passion and eloquence, Charles Darwin. Couldn't agree more :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat July 23rd, 2016, 01:56 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
Posts: 3981
littlemaggie wrote:
Just checking if this post makes sense.

You are obviously saying that Blood on the Tracks would have been a better record if it had been the version with the New York versions of the songs that were re-recorded for the released version. A fair enough opinion, if not one that has been shared a million times on the internet. But then you say "Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?" and cite 'Blind Willie McTell' from the Infidels album as an example. It wasn't on that album.

What are you on about?

I'm sure he means that the decision to leave BWM off Infidels was a misjudgment of the same sort he considers the re-recording of the BOTT songs to be.

Personally, I think the versions of "Tangled Up In Blue" and "Idiot Wind" on BS1-3 are inferior both to the test pressing and originally released versions of those songs. But the test pressing versions are indeed exquisite! (Could go either way as to whether they best the album versions, depends on my mood on a given day. "You're A Big Girl Now" from Biograph is easily better than the album version, that much I'll commit to.) On the other hand, I think the BS1-3 version of "If You See Her, Say Hello" is better than the one on the test pressing, and at least the equal of the album cut. "Meet Me In The Morning" on the album is better than either the released alternate of that song or "Call Letter Blues," IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat July 23rd, 2016, 08:01 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
littlemaggie wrote:
johnnyreality wrote:
... they're mostly better than the released album, surely? Listened to the the alternate version of Tangled Up In Blue

and for me it's far superior to the album version- lovely feel to it and better lyrics and I also prefer the more melancholic

version of Idiot Wind. Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?

The most notorious example being the inexplicable of Bling Willie McTell from the Infidels album. Now that was unforgivable.



Just checking if this post makes sense.

You are obviously saying that Blood on the Tracks would have been a better record if it had been the version with the New York versions of the songs that were re-recorded for the released version. A fair enough opinion, if not one that has been shared a million times on the internet. But then you say "Dylan hasn't got a very good track record of choosing the best versions of his own songs, has he?" and cite 'Blind Willie McTell' from the Infidels album as an example. It wasn't on that album.

What are you on about?


Perhaps I should written "left out from Infidels?" I'm sure you are aware that that song originates from those sessions and its

omission from that album will forever be a source of deep mystery to Dylan fans. I used to be a Bob Dylan fan, you know?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat July 23rd, 2016, 08:05 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
Mighty Monkey, it's been quite some time since I heard the alternate version of You're A Big Girl Now so if

you or anyone else has a link I'd be be gratified mightily if you could post it. I love that song.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat July 23rd, 2016, 08:18 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 8th, 2016, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 420
Charles D, I feel you as the black guys say in The Wire but my current preference for the earlier versions

is almost certainly due to over exposure to the official album which I played constantly in those days. I suppose

it's merely a case of familiarity breeding if not contempt (that would not be possible in this instance) then shall

I say a certain indifference. Like certain Monty Python sketches allure which I know word for word and which have

now finally lost their allure my ears prick up a little more easily when I hear certain nuances not present on the official album

I'm certainly NOT disparaging an album which is rightly seen as one of Dylan's best.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 104 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], treacherousmonk, Viktor123


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group