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PostPosted: Mon June 25th, 2018, 19:51 GMT 

Joined: Thu April 16th, 2009, 23:36 GMT
Posts: 77
Paul Simon is a true master of his craft. I have tickets to see him next month and am really looking forward to it.

He’s not in the same league as Bob, but then who is?

I offer The Beatles, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Parker and Gillespie. True geniuses that changed the landscape of music.


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PostPosted: Mon June 25th, 2018, 20:26 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 2159
Location: Ireland
juststepintothearena wrote:
Mickvet wrote:
You never say 'bye bye' to Juststepintothearena, when you have the golden opportunity to ask her to step out of the arena.
fify

my answer to the op:
dylan is in a category of one (mt. everest, etc),
paul simon is not as good
and they are different


Sorry, juststepintothearena, I did not mean to take any side in a debate that had nothing to do with me. I just can't resist a pun (or should I say, a play on words?), no matter how lame. In fact, the lamer the better! In truth, I love your username, named after one of my all-time favourite Dylan phrases.

I fully agree with your assessment, an echo of something Leonard Cohen said, if I remember correctly.

And, of course, pardon me for the gender error. You do appreciate that on an anonymous forum, particularly one of this nature, that this may happen? Especially when slow people like me are involved.


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PostPosted: Mon June 25th, 2018, 22:41 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 27th, 2016, 21:50 GMT
Posts: 1235
he’s “number zero”
and
it’s all good


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PostPosted: Thu June 28th, 2018, 07:32 GMT 

Joined: Tue December 30th, 2008, 09:05 GMT
Posts: 916
Location: Liverpool
In my twenties, I would have said no contest. In my forties it's easier to see they are very much are on a par, albeit in very different ways.


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PostPosted: Thu June 28th, 2018, 13:17 GMT 

Joined: Tue April 3rd, 2007, 14:49 GMT
Posts: 170
Location: Norway
In a couple of days I will see Paul Simon live at his farewell tour in my hometown of Oslo. Later in July I will see Van Morrison live in Gothenburgh, Sweden, and also in July in Sweden I will see Elliott Murphy. In August I will see Dylan (at least 3 concerts) in Australia. But, most of all I wish I could add Neil Young to this list, then I could look forward to see my five top artists of all time live in a couple of months (John Lennon is of course also on my list, but of obvious reason he's not on tour). But, what is it I really like about the artists I have mentioned:
Neil Young: 1. His performing (outstanding) 2. His guitar playing (outstanding), 3. His melodies, 4. His voice, 5. His lyrics (I like the best his political lyrics).
Paul Simon: 1. His melodies (outstanding), 2. His lyrics. 3. His arrangements. 4. His voice.
Van Morrison: 1. His voice! (The best male voice ever). 2. Some of his melodies, 3. Lyrics - not very impressed.
Bob Dylan: 1. His lyrics (outstanding). 2. His phrasing (outstanding, but not not always) 3. His melodies. 4. The "clown".
Elliott Murphy: 1. The lyrics (almost as good as Dylan), 2. The melodies. 3. His performing. 4. The voice (5. Has the best guitarist ever; Olivier Durand, in his band.)

I will have seen Dylan 250 times after my Australian tour in August, I have seen Elliott ca. 80 times and the others, Van ca. 30, Neil ca. 20 and Paul ca.10 times.
Maybe that's my answer to the original question to this topic! But if you don't know Elliott Murphy check him out. After Neil, I'm quite sure he have made most albums as well.

P.S. There are a few other artists that's also on my top list when lyrics are the issue: Ray Davies, Leonard Cohan, Dolly Parton & Mike Scott (Waterboys).


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PostPosted: Thu June 28th, 2018, 13:49 GMT 
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Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 2007
Tom Waits is better than both.


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 00:27 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
Posts: 415
"Sounds of silence" is his high water mark, the rest I could leave or take. Personally I think the only one consistently anywhere near Dylans level of writing is John Prine. Lightfoot has a few too, Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald" especially.


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 00:31 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
Posts: 415
Elevator music.... Exactly


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 05:55 GMT 
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Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
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Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
mjmooney wrote:
Here ya go. An entirely subjective and unscientific comparison (and I didn't check my adding up). Try your own version.

CULTURAL IMPACT
Dylan 10
Cohen 6
Mitchell 6
Simon 7
Morrison 7
Bowie 8

COMPOSITIONAL SKILL (lyrics)
Dylan 10
Cohen 9
Mitchell 9
Simon 8
Morrison 7
Bowie 6

COMPOSITIONAL SKILL (music)
Dylan 7
Cohen 7
Mitchell 9
Simon 8
Morrison 7
Bowie 7

CONSISTENCY (recording)
Dylan 7
Cohen 8
Mitchell 8
Simon 8
Morrison 7
Bowie 8

CONSISTENCY (live)
Dylan 7
Cohen 8
Mitchell 9
Simon 8
Morrison 8
Bowie 8

SUBJECTIVE FACTOR (how much I like them)
Dylan 10
Cohen 7
Mitchell 9
Simon 8
Morrison 8
Bowie 4

OVERALL SCORE
Dylan 51
Cohen 45
Mitchell 50
Simon 47
Morrison 44
Bowie 41


I wonder how the final score would look if you subtracted the subjectivity factor instead of adding it in to pile on the bias even further?


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 06:21 GMT 
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Ok I'm bored:

SUBJECTIVE FACTOR (how much I like them)
Dylan -10
Cohen -7
Mitchell -9
Simon -8
Morrison -8
Bowie -4


To subtract instead of adding, I'll have to subtract twice that amount, so:

OVERALL SCORE
Dylan 51 -20 = 31
Cohen 45 -14 = 31
Mitchell 50 -18 = 32
Simon 47 -16 = 31
Morrison 44 -16 = 28
Bowie 41 -8 = 33


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 06:43 GMT 

Joined: Tue March 8th, 2005, 12:56 GMT
Posts: 424
The scoring is a genius idea!!


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 10:50 GMT 
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OVERALL SCORE
Pure gut, no science
Scale of 1-10,
10 being most desirable

Dylan 10
Mitchell 7
Bowie 6
Morrison 5
Waits 3
Cohen 2
Simon 1


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 10:58 GMT 
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Location: over the shadows & the rain
OVERALL SCORE
imho
Scale of 1-10+
10 being high

Bob Dylan 32.8
Ian Tyson 9.9
Neil Young 9.8
Joni M. 9.5
McCartney & Lennon 9.3
Bowie 9.3
Cohen 9.2
Morrison 9.1
Simon 1.8

TGIF


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 11:12 GMT 
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Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 2007
Still Go Barefoot wrote:
OVERALL SCORE
Pure gut, no science
Scale of 1-10,
10 being most desirable

Dylan 10
Mitchell 7
Bowie 6
Morrison 5
Waits 3
Cohen 2
Simon 1



Ha what utter bollocks.


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 11:14 GMT 
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Brian_Eire wrote:
Elevator music.... Exactly


FFS this place is bad for my blood pressure.


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 11:39 GMT 
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McG wrote:
Still Go Barefoot wrote:
OVERALL SCORE
Pure gut, no science
Scale of 1-10,
10 being most desirable

Dylan 10
Mitchell 7
Bowie 6
Morrison 5
Waits 3
Cohen 2
Simon 1



Ha what utter bollocks.


Respect for other’s opinions:
McG 0

We’re obviously gonna hafta have more
than one beer when the time comes...


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 12:12 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:

Respect for other’s opinions:
McG 0

We’re obviously gonna hafta have more
than one beer when the time comes...


I can respect your spouting of utter bollocks, but it doesn't make it any less utter bollocks mate!

Will happily buy you a few pints and discuss the small print with ye.


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 12:26 GMT 
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McG wrote:
Still Go Barefoot wrote:

Respect for other’s opinions:
McG 0

We’re obviously gonna hafta have more
than one beer when the time comes...


I can respect your spouting of utter bollocks, but it doesn't make it any less utter bollocks mate!

Will happily buy you a few pints and discuss the small print with ye.

Excellent. I look forward to it.
The stars will eventually align where I hope to actually jump off at
Heathrow again for a few days instead of just passing through.
Hopefully around a Bob show...


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PostPosted: Fri June 29th, 2018, 14:56 GMT 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldQslUDd-k


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PostPosted: Thu July 5th, 2018, 04:21 GMT 

Joined: Thu July 3rd, 2014, 20:40 GMT
Posts: 1
The '80s were a prime period for Los Lobos, and while they most notably broke through with the music for the film 'La Bamba,' there's another significant record with which they contributed to that you might not know they were ever associated with.

Multi-instrumentalist and producer Steve Berlin tells Rock Cellar magazine that the group isn't exactly happy with Paul Simon, claiming that a song they worked up in a session with the musician for the 'Graceland' album never yielded a credit or a profit.


Berlin says that at the time they were doing a favor for their label president by agreeing to work with the musician, who was coming off a down period in his career while they were enjoying Grammy and sales success. But the sessions with Simon were uncomfortable and the band were ready to move on after the first day, only to have their label chief pleading with them to play it out.

Berlin recalls, "Rather than engage us, Paul would just stare at us like we were animals in a zoo or something. I'm telling you, the guy is a weird dude -- there's no two ways about it." He says they felt as though Simon wasn't really interested in playing with them, as he sat in the control room and asked them to jam without contributing anything.

After a few days of uncomfortable interaction, Berlin says that David Hidalgo began playing what would become 'The Myth of Fingerprints,' a track they were preparing for their next record. He explains, "We'd been waiting around for two days for Paul to come up with something, but he had nothing. So to have something to do, we just started playing what we thought was our song, when Paul suddenly says, 'Hey that's cool. What is that?' and we said, 'Oh, it's a song we've been working on.'"

Berlin says Simon asked if they could work on it, and the band agreed thinking that it would help get the sessions over quicker. However, Los Lobos were definitely surprised when Simon's album came out six months later with credits that read "Words and Music by Paul Simon."

Berlin says attempts to find out why they weren't credited were met with silence until Simon contacted the band and said, "Sue me. See what happens." The musician says, "We should have sued him, frankly. I would have loved to have seen what would have happened. But I guess in a weird way, we just naively started fooling around with a song -- a song we didn't have a pre-existing recording of -- and I don't know if we could have proven in a court of law, at the end of the day, that he stole it."

Berlin says that one indicator of Simon's intentions was that the singer claimed to have written a lot of the African material on the 'Graceland' album, but later had to give the African records credit because there were recordings that actually did exist. But in the end, Steve says the band never received a penny for their work on the 'Graceland' record. He concludes, "Everybody I know who has ever worked with Paul Simon says he's the biggest jerk in the world. Yeah - he's a f---ing idiot."


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PostPosted: Thu July 5th, 2018, 08:13 GMT 
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Pikkle wrote:
The '80s were a prime period for Los Lobos, and while they most notably broke through with the music for the film 'La Bamba,' there's another significant record with which they contributed to that you might not know they were ever associated with.

Multi-instrumentalist and producer Steve Berlin tells Rock Cellar magazine that the group isn't exactly happy with Paul Simon, claiming that a song they worked up in a session with the musician for the 'Graceland' album never yielded a credit or a profit.


Berlin says that at the time they were doing a favor for their label president by agreeing to work with the musician, who was coming off a down period in his career while they were enjoying Grammy and sales success. But the sessions with Simon were uncomfortable and the band were ready to move on after the first day, only to have their label chief pleading with them to play it out.

Berlin recalls, "Rather than engage us, Paul would just stare at us like we were animals in a zoo or something. I'm telling you, the guy is a weird dude -- there's no two ways about it." He says they felt as though Simon wasn't really interested in playing with them, as he sat in the control room and asked them to jam without contributing anything.

After a few days of uncomfortable interaction, Berlin says that David Hidalgo began playing what would become 'The Myth of Fingerprints,' a track they were preparing for their next record. He explains, "We'd been waiting around for two days for Paul to come up with something, but he had nothing. So to have something to do, we just started playing what we thought was our song, when Paul suddenly says, 'Hey that's cool. What is that?' and we said, 'Oh, it's a song we've been working on.'"

Berlin says Simon asked if they could work on it, and the band agreed thinking that it would help get the sessions over quicker. However, Los Lobos were definitely surprised when Simon's album came out six months later with credits that read "Words and Music by Paul Simon."

Berlin says attempts to find out why they weren't credited were met with silence until Simon contacted the band and said, "Sue me. See what happens." The musician says, "We should have sued him, frankly. I would have loved to have seen what would have happened. But I guess in a weird way, we just naively started fooling around with a song -- a song we didn't have a pre-existing recording of -- and I don't know if we could have proven in a court of law, at the end of the day, that he stole it."

Berlin says that one indicator of Simon's intentions was that the singer claimed to have written a lot of the African material on the 'Graceland' album, but later had to give the African records credit because there were recordings that actually did exist. But in the end, Steve says the band never received a penny for their work on the 'Graceland' record. He concludes, "Everybody I know who has ever worked with Paul Simon says he's the biggest jerk in the world. Yeah - he's a f---ing idiot."


Dissing other musicians for nicking songs in a Bob Dylan forum! Too funny.


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PostPosted: Thu July 5th, 2018, 12:31 GMT 
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McG wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldQslUDd-k

I'll up you to the Nth degree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDmvx_fZe3E

I think Paul Simon is great, but he doesn't compare to Dylan's voracity or Cohen's stoicism.
I guess you could consider Paul Simon the vivacious, exuberant, and highly euphonic version of the two, with an almost unparalleled, effortless alliteration and ignoble poise.


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PostPosted: Thu July 5th, 2018, 13:08 GMT 
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mystic garden wrote:
McG wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldQslUDd-k

I'll up you to the Nth degree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDmvx_fZe3E

.


Oh sure, but I was only talking about the question posed in the thread title. Note the present tense - clearly the OP meant over the course of their careers, but looking at the difference between the 2 as they are now is startling.


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PostPosted: Sun July 8th, 2018, 00:58 GMT 
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I've always thought Paul Simon was the most overrated songwriter of all time, I'm probably alone in that opinion, but it is what it is.


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PostPosted: Sun July 8th, 2018, 01:04 GMT 
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Paul Simon is a doughnut, Bob is a croissant.


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