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PostPosted: Wed December 20th, 2017, 11:35 GMT 
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Joined: Wed December 16th, 2009, 12:57 GMT
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I agree this could have been better, this is clear when you listen to what Old Crow medicine show did with Rock me momma (Wagon wheel) and Sweet Amarillo, for which they took arrangement suggestions from Bob himself, which might come from those days for all we know. But it is a wonderful soundtrack (if a bit brief and repetitive) the way it is and adds a lot of character to the (great) movie.
And Bob´s music surely (and thankfully) beats his acting performance!

PostPosted: Wed December 20th, 2017, 12:09 GMT 

Joined: Tue December 30th, 2008, 09:05 GMT
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Location: Basingstoke
BobDylan66 wrote:
From my perspective, it works very well for a soundtrack while not blowing everything out of the water (remember it was a time when the contemporary soundtracks were ennio Morricone and nino rota for the classics; isaac hayes, curtis mayfield and marvin gaye for funk/soul; jimmy cliff for reggae, etc.).
It has good flavour and of course one of Dylan's most well known song, but the rest is underwhelming for a giant like him (later that year we will have Planet Waves, that's another level).

But, if we look at the outtakes and naturally the sonic atmosphere, it could have been so much better and maybe become a classic in Dylan's repertoire. The lack of songwriting material indicates more a difficulty for Bob to go back on track (he did lose part of his creativity in the early 70's) than sheer laziness on his part.
For me, and that's just my opinion, the record is closer to the self-indulgence on Self Portrait than the brilliance of Planet Waves and of course the magnum opus that is Blood On The Tracks. Even with lots of rewrites on Rock Me, Mama or Goodbye Holly, the record would still be a middle of the road album. Cool, but not phenomenal.
We're talking about Bob, so that doesn't really matter since he does what pleases him (with great talent), and many artists today will be quite happy with such a record.

I really like the album as a soundtrack, and independently. I don't agree, but at the same time, when stacked up against the composers above, you can see how a someone trained in writing film scores could see Dylan's three chord soundtrack as 'shit'. It's certainly very simple, musically, whether you think that equates to simplistic is another matter.

PostPosted: Fri December 22nd, 2017, 02:37 GMT 
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Joined: Wed November 29th, 2017, 04:04 GMT
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frenchdog wrote:
I've spent the morning listening to the Pat Garrett sessions and I can't help but feel that the final soundtrack album didn't really live up to its potential.

It could have been a really interesting project had he spent a bit more time on it. In the end it's pleasant enough, but a bit of a throwaway oddity. In my opinion it wouldn't have taken much atall to take it out of the soundtrack territory and make it a powerful record in its own right. (Obviously that was never Bob's intention but its a shame nonetheless).

'Rock Me Mama' could have been a 70's highlight and its such a shame that it was discarded so early. 'Goodbye Holly' could have broken up the density of instrumentals, which although brilliant, become a bit overbearing. If he'd have included those and perhaps only had one version of 'Billy' it would suddenly flow like an album. In the end we only get a fleeting and slightly underwhelming taste of Cowboy Bob.

What are other peoples thoughts?

Pat Garrett was the first Bob Dylan record that I listened to obsessively. I LOVE it. I think it is under-rated, never really gets a mention. So I am glad you brought it up.

I agree yes, it is maybe not as full of melodies, lyrics or meaning as Blood on the tracks. But it is a Soundtrack/score to a movie, so has to primarily refer to the scenes in the film.

It has a kind of rough and ready feel that I think suits the feel of the film perfectly. I can picture dirty cowboys sitting around in the heat and dust, finger picking randomly on their guitars, when I listen to it. Maybe more classical music style melodies here would have been preferable for some classical musician, but hey what do they know about Cowboys anyway!!

I have a relative who is a full time professional violist in a national orchestra for 30+ years now. She loves when they record music scores. They often have the conductor viewing film and talking to the director/producer during recording sessions. So that the film scenes are very much driving the music. They once had Robert Redford strutting around on stage while they recorded a score, I think for Out of Africa, but I am not 100% certain if that or another Rob Redford film. And her and her colleagues love to meet and work with other types of musician and artists. They are not judgmental. (Well obviously the women musicians really liked having Robert Redford wandering around their work place for days, probably the men too!!). They realise that there are different 'genres' of music and you can't apply the same criteria to judge each.

Compare it to Mark Knopfler's album/score from Local Hero. I love that too. But Pat Garret is even more evocative of the film scenes and has a really classic song in there too! And we don't judge Mark Knopfler's efforts in the same way. Funny that!

I am going go get them both out and give them a listen now. Thanks!

PostPosted: Fri December 22nd, 2017, 21:41 GMT 

Joined: Fri September 26th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
Posts: 101
asdf29 wrote:
Dark Horse 77 wrote:
I've never been able to find one outtake in particular from these sessions. I have Pecos Blues and it's not on there either. It's the minute long track that plays when Kristofferson gives himself up to Coburn fairly early on in the film. It's really just Bob and several others singing "La la la la la...la la la la," but it's a great track!
Any help would be appreciated.

It's "Billy Surrenders." The movie clip with the "la la la la's" is on youtube. You're right, it is not on the outtakes CD. There is only a short instrumental version on the CD's, at least the ones I have.

I assumed there were a few instances of movie music that doesn't appear elsewhere, this would be one.

Here's a cool cover of "Billy Surrenders" by Rich Robinson's Black Crowes offshoot, The Magpie Salute before it seques into "Time Passes Slowly" (the 'la la la la' Another Self Portrait Version).


PostPosted: Sun December 24th, 2017, 07:51 GMT 
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Joined: Sat April 3rd, 2010, 17:44 GMT
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I didn't own the album until I bought the CD version a few years ago. I wasn't overwhelmed with it when I first played it and haven't returned to it much since. It's easy to forget as a Dylan album. I did see the film and quite enjoyed it.

PostPosted: Wed December 27th, 2017, 06:59 GMT 
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Joined: Sat October 4th, 2014, 21:25 GMT
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The album reached it's full potential on Heaven's Door. That song makes the whole thing worth it. It's worth more than some entire albums. There are no cover versions that rise above this version. Jerry Garcia Band almost came close once or twice but with completely different, long-winded results. And certainly Warren Zevon's version can't be denied. It's still not even close to the original. Oh and check out Benmont Tench's incredibly soulful 4 bar solo!...

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