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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 22:48 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3386
Location: Manchester UK
Sixteen years since the last album I liked. That's the biggest gap of Dylan's career by a large margin.

A live show that is barely live.

Dylan becoming a covers act, singing standards badly, supported by highly talented musicians who appear to be playing in their sleep. A bad covers act.

Dylan fans "doing their best to deny it".

He owes us nothing and never did owe anyone anything. However at the moment he is delivering nothing.

I keep hoping for a new album that surprises us.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 23:43 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 7th, 2004, 18:31 GMT
Posts: 460
Does anyone wonder why Bob hates his fans and doesn't talk during concerts? After the boos and insults of 1965-1966 and 1979-1980, and members of his "fan" sites moaning constantly, it's quite clear why he has contempt for his audience.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 23:50 GMT 
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The best part of this thread is that harmonica albert posted in it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 00:01 GMT 
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harmonica albert wrote:
I listened to Triplicate (or maybe just some of it--I was on an airplane) and have to say it was one of the worst pieces of sad worthless music I've ever heard. That alone makes Dylan's dotage a dark period indeed. Someone should just tell him to stop. He is devaluing his place as an artist and his prior work with these morbidly dreadful and self-centered cover albums. Tiny Tim had a better grasp of such material, and a better way with the songs. Is this a triple album? I can't imagine anyone listening to more than a few minutes of him wheezing and gurgling through this material without collapsing in laughter or tears. Drunk uncles in front of a wedding band was all I could think of as a comparable listening experience. He's clearly running on empty. Dead man fires last pistol shot on cap gun.

Then I watched Pacific Rim. Big mistake.

I've only listened to the Triplicate songs available online. They just made me yearn for those moments of Bob at his best... like Christmas In the Heart.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 05:09 GMT 

Joined: Wed July 19th, 2006, 04:24 GMT
Posts: 1247
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RichardW wrote:
Sixteen years since the last album I liked. That's the biggest gap of Dylan's career by a large margin.

A live show that is barely live.

Dylan becoming a covers act, singing standards badly, supported by highly talented musicians who appear to be playing in their sleep. A bad covers act.

Dylan fans "doing their best to deny it".

He owes us nothing and never did owe anyone anything. However at the moment he is delivering nothing.

I keep hoping for a new album that surprises us.


You should probably stick to Van Morrison and Elvis Costello....


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 05:21 GMT 
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kuddukan wrote:
The best part of this thread is that harmonica albert posted in it.


Yes! Great to see you, Albert.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 07:43 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
Posts: 416
What a load of crap. Man is in the zone. Christ most people in their mid 70's are considered 'active' if they are still doing their own shopping and able to walk the dog


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 08:51 GMT 

Joined: Thu July 5th, 2007, 08:12 GMT
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Location: Copenhagen.dk
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 16:16 GMT 
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Brian_Eire wrote:
What a load of crap. Man is in the zone.


What "zone" are you talking about? The zone of the greatest songwriter of our times not writing or sharing any original music with the world? The autopilot zone of playing the same stale show night after night and year after year? Or perhaps you're alluding to the zone of releasing 5 LPs worth of insipid standards? Yeah, the man is in the zone alright.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 16:50 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
Posts: 416
What a burden it must be to be the greatest songwriter of our times. Maybe Dylan woulda been better off as someone who was discovered and lauded after his time. At least then he could follow his muse without all the nonsense of outside expectation. The 'zone' I'm talking about is putting out 3 albums of "standards" and playing consistently good shows night in and out. It's about movement, progression and evolution. Busy being born...there's nothing stagnant about what he's doing, whether you like it or not. The records are full of beautiful songs and they (him and the band and the room) sound absolutely fantastic. If you aren't touched in some way by those tracks, either you haven't lived enough or ya gotta heart of stone.
The shows themselves have been very deliberately refined to the point they can sound exceptional night after night. Like theatre, the lines and act may be the same, but the actors further disappear into character after each curtain fall. The last show I saw was Albert Hall 2014 and it was near perfect in execution. I don't know any other band that sound so good live. Aside from this, and I gather it's even more pronounced now, but it was a masterclass in contrast. Caravaggio used dark and light in the same way. There's no other musician out there jumping from a high octane let's give Brian Wilson a run for his money "thunder on the mountain" to a pin drop watch out now ima break your heart "autumn leaves".


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 17:06 GMT 

Joined: Fri August 18th, 2017, 03:52 GMT
Posts: 22
gibsona07 wrote:
Bob's averaged one new original album every 5 years since Time out of Mind. How is this any different to 92-97 or 01-06?


It isn't any different. (96-01 too!). I think we have one hell of an album on the way from Bob and his band! In comparison to the three year time span that produced TTL and Tempest, five years is a lot of time for Bob to practice his art, discover fresh inspiration and develop new songs.

TOOM is a masterpiece! Bob made that album after releasing GAIBTY and WGW - the songs of which, I think, gave Bob fresh artistic inspiration. It's possible that by diving in and recording the last three 'American Song Book' albums, Bob has found similar fresh inspiration and (hopefully) excitement to write new material.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 17:42 GMT 
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yopietro wrote:
Brian_Eire wrote:
What a load of crap. Man is in the zone.


What "zone" are you talking about? The zone of the greatest songwriter of our times not writing or sharing any original music with the world? The autopilot zone of playing the same stale show night after night and year after year? Or perhaps you're alluding to the zone of releasing 5 LPs worth of insipid standards? Yeah, the man is in the zone alright.


3 questions:

1. How much do you love TEMPEST?

2. What were the last three shows you attended

3. Have you actively listened to at least one of the last three releases (Shadows, Fallen, Trip)?


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 17:44 GMT 
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Given that I find Bob's later originals as compelling as his earlier ones I would be happy if he came up with more. I have five years on him and see no reason to believe creativity is numbered by days and since he follows his own drum I wait with interest.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 19:48 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3386
Location: Manchester UK
Brian_Eire wrote:
What a burden it must be to be the greatest songwriter of our times. Maybe Dylan woulda been better off as someone who was discovered and lauded after his time. At least then he could follow his muse without all the nonsense of outside expectation. The 'zone' I'm talking about is putting out 3 albums of "standards" and playing consistently good shows night in and out. It's about movement, progression and evolution. Busy being born...there's nothing stagnant about what he's doing, whether you like it or not. The records are full of beautiful songs and they (him and the band and the room) sound absolutely fantastic. If you aren't touched in some way by those tracks, either you haven't lived enough or ya gotta heart of stone.
The shows themselves have been very deliberately refined to the point they can sound exceptional night after night. Like theatre, the lines and act may be the same, but the actors further disappear into character after each curtain fall. The last show I saw was Albert Hall 2014 and it was near perfect in execution. I don't know any other band that sound so good live. Aside from this, and I gather it's even more pronounced now, but it was a masterclass in contrast. Caravaggio used dark and light in the same way. There's no other musician out there jumping from a high octane let's give Brian Wilson a run for his money "thunder on the mountain" to a pin drop watch out now ima break your heart "autumn leaves".

Everyone is allowed an opinion, but so much of this is bizarre.

"I don't know any other band that sound so good live". Really? Seriously? I just don't get how Dylan fans can say such dumb things.

So this year I saw Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. The Bad Seeds beats Dylan's band by the distance between here and the closest star. Dylan's band isn't even in the same galaxy - not the way they play for Dylan. They may be hugely talented, but they are treading water.

Maybe it is a good thing to be such a fan that you leave all artistic judgement at the door, but I don't think so.

Dylan doesn't sound fantastic. He sounds like an old man trying hard to sing in a way that he cannot. He's a nostalgia act, and if he hadn't written so many great songs in the last century, absolutely no-one would be listening now.

And somewhere someone says I should stick to Van Morrison and Elvis Costello: if those are the only artists you can think of, you should broaden your horizons very significantly.

Harmonica nails it - not for the first time - " Triplicate is one of the worst pieces of sad worthless music I've ever heard".


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 21:40 GMT 

Joined: Sun August 20th, 2017, 12:26 GMT
Posts: 186
Bob isn't forcing anyone to listen to his music or go to his shows, if one isn't into what he's doing now they can always listen to the albums and shows from periods of Bob's career that they do enjoy. We really are spoiled with the amount of material that's available.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Wed November 29th, 2017, 21:44 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 27th, 2005, 01:09 GMT
Posts: 416
Well Richard here's the thing. I'm not coming from the point of some 'fan'. I play professionally myself and have plenty of studio time under my belt both as songwriter and engineer. I saw Nick Cave a few years back. He's great, taking nothing away. I've seen everyone I've intended to aside from Petty, well may he rest. Neil Young, Tom waits, Springsteen, Prine, lightfoot, Baez, Rambling jack etc etc I'd include all the fantastic Irish traditional stuff also... Christy moore, Paul Brady, planxty, Clancy and makem. I worked in a hip hop/soul/jazz venue for two years. The only one in the same stratosphere is Waits in my personal opinion. I payed a fortune to see him and I would have payed twice that because the last time was 81 and there probably won't be a next time.

Now it's all subjective of course, your opinion or mine, but if you genuinely think Dylan can't sing then I'd wager you don't yourself, because the man is next to none in terms of phrasing and timing. That's why you get artists who rave about him and are referential and Joe public who poo poo things because it's slightly outside their field of comprehension. Is it essential to play music to get it? no of course not, but when your ears can pick up exactly what's happening on stage it's marvellous. Everything is defined, nothing stomps on top of each other, there's space and room and it all hangs around the vocal, organically dropping in and out around it. I still can't quite figure how they do it, but each show I get as close to the front of the class as possible.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. There won't be another like him, but hopefully someone Is picking up exactly what it is that makes it great and can move it on a little further down the line. We shall see :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 01:52 GMT 
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RichardW wrote:
Dylan doesn't sound fantastic. He sounds like an old man trying hard to sing in a way that he cannot. He's a nostalgia act, and if he hadn't written so many great songs in the last century, absolutely no-one would be listening now.

I wouldn't consider Dylan a nostalgia act. People attending his shows for nostalgia's sake leave deeply disappointed because he doesn't sound anything like his records. His delivery, playing with melodies and re-arranging to tunes, not playing guitar... Unless the reviewer is a fan whose followed Dylan's live performances through the years, and especially the last few years, review after review is one of dismay. Dylan doesn't deliver to their expectations.

I'm grateful he's capable and willing to continue night after night at this age. I'm hoping for a studio release of new original songs after the first of the year and a tour to support that album. And I'm still hoping for Dylan to do a televised Christmas Special before he calls it quits.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 03:44 GMT 

Joined: Sat March 18th, 2017, 13:26 GMT
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harmonica albert wrote:
I listened to Triplicate (or maybe just some of it--I was on an airplane) and have to say it was one of the worst pieces of sad worthless music I've ever heard. That alone makes Dylan's dotage a dark period indeed. Someone should just tell him to stop. He is devaluing his place as an artist and his prior work with these morbidly dreadful and self-centered cover albums.


With all due respect, I disagree. I don't think "wtf" (for the lack of better word, sorry) release of legacy artists like Dylan usually NEVER devalue their previous legacy works.

For example, Paul McCartney has been releasing "wtf" albums that wouldn't interest most of his fans (classic albums, sound collage, Fireman) on the other hand he's released only five original studio albums in 21th century so far. But, at least to me, that isn't devaluing his legacy as one of the members of the Beatles, and his success as a solo artist/band leader.

Just like Paul, Dylan has already established his firm position in the entire history of music, so no matter how he'd release albums that would disappoint some (most?) of the fans, his legacy wouldn't be damaged.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 11:18 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3386
Location: Manchester UK
Brian_Eire wrote:
Well Richard here's the thing. I'm not coming from the point of some 'fan'. I play professionally myself and have plenty of studio time under my belt both as songwriter and engineer. I saw Nick Cave a few years back. He's great, taking nothing away. I've seen everyone I've intended to aside from Petty, well may he rest. Neil Young, Tom waits, Springsteen, Prine, lightfoot, Baez, Rambling jack etc etc I'd include all the fantastic Irish traditional stuff also... Christy moore, Paul Brady, planxty, Clancy and makem. I worked in a hip hop/soul/jazz venue for two years. The only one in the same stratosphere is Waits in my personal opinion. I payed a fortune to see him and I would have payed twice that because the last time was 81 and there probably won't be a next time.

Now it's all subjective of course, your opinion or mine, but if you genuinely think Dylan can't sing then I'd wager you don't yourself, because the man is next to none in terms of phrasing and timing. That's why you get artists who rave about him and are referential and Joe public who poo poo things because it's slightly outside their field of comprehension. Is it essential to play music to get it? no of course not, but when your ears can pick up exactly what's happening on stage it's marvellous. Everything is defined, nothing stomps on top of each other, there's space and room and it all hangs around the vocal, organically dropping in and out around it. I still can't quite figure how they do it, but each show I get as close to the front of the class as possible.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. There won't be another like him, but hopefully someone Is picking up exactly what it is that makes it great and can move it on a little further down the line. We shall see :wink:

Thanks for your comments; as you say it is subjective. Thanks for engaging with a discussion.

As you guessed, I can't sing. This is an objective fact.

But I didn't say Dylan couldn't sing. I said "he sounds like an old man trying hard to sing in a way he cannot". He can't croon or whatever it is he's doing on the last three albums. The songs - which I hate - are based on the singer having a vocal quality Dylan has never had. I always think of it as vocal glamour - a quality I associate with singers like Sinatra or Tony Bennett or Dean Martin. Smooth and rather dull. Again, not a style I like at all. Dylan just can't do this - he is a bad singer when he's trying to be smooth. I think he's a far greater singer across his career than Sinatra (not a commonly held opinion) because he knew what he could do and did it astonishingly well. Many people hate Dylan's voice on "Love and Theft" - I think he sounds great because of the phrasing and the wit with which he uses his voice.

So I don't think Dylan can't sing, I just don't think he can sing these songs. As I hate the songs, this is perhaps not an entirely sound opinion - I'd hate anyone singing these songs (and have done all my life). One of the revolutions Dylan created was the realisation that the best singers didn't have to sound like Sinatra or Elvis. But there is a match between the song and the singer. It is like when opera singers sing musicals; I have no doubts about the voice and the talent, but they can't sing those songs. That's Dylan and the songs he is presently performing.


Concerning the band: what you describe is fine, but is almost the minimum for a good band. A few years back when Dylan toured this wasn't true - the Freeman/Kimball band frequently stomped on top of each other and I remember entire shows where Garnier and Receli were pretty much all you could hear. And the organ!

So the sound has certainly improved. What I totally miss with the current band is the sense that someone is going to soar, is going to surprise me with a solo or even a turn of phrase that they haven't played many many times previously. I thought there was a chance Duke Robilliard was going to take Dylan there, but he got sacked. I'm not questioning the quality of the players - and Charlie Sexton used to do this back betwen 1999 and 2002 - but I don't like what Dylan has them doing now. I've tried convincing myself that this is because they are playing so subtly, but I can't maintain this opinion for very long. They play tasteful predictable licks around a guy crooning badly.

Sometimes I'm reminded of the Rundown performance of "You're A Big Girl Now" when they seem to accidentally start performing the song as a saloon bar standard. But the difference in quality is simply incredible: first, the song is far better than the stuff on Triplicate; second, the singer is far far better; third, the band is responsive and clearly having a blast. Here's Dylan not crooning properly, and it is thrilling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRzdWD4Qio


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 11:30 GMT 

Joined: Tue January 6th, 2015, 15:03 GMT
Posts: 579
RichardW wrote:
Brian_Eire wrote:
Well Richard here's the thing. I'm not coming from the point of some 'fan'. I play professionally myself and have plenty of studio time under my belt both as songwriter and engineer. I saw Nick Cave a few years back. He's great, taking nothing away. I've seen everyone I've intended to aside from Petty, well may he rest. Neil Young, Tom waits, Springsteen, Prine, lightfoot, Baez, Rambling jack etc etc I'd include all the fantastic Irish traditional stuff also... Christy moore, Paul Brady, planxty, Clancy and makem. I worked in a hip hop/soul/jazz venue for two years. The only one in the same stratosphere is Waits in my personal opinion. I payed a fortune to see him and I would have payed twice that because the last time was 81 and there probably won't be a next time.

Now it's all subjective of course, your opinion or mine, but if you genuinely think Dylan can't sing then I'd wager you don't yourself, because the man is next to none in terms of phrasing and timing. That's why you get artists who rave about him and are referential and Joe public who poo poo things because it's slightly outside their field of comprehension. Is it essential to play music to get it? no of course not, but when your ears can pick up exactly what's happening on stage it's marvellous. Everything is defined, nothing stomps on top of each other, there's space and room and it all hangs around the vocal, organically dropping in and out around it. I still can't quite figure how they do it, but each show I get as close to the front of the class as possible.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. There won't be another like him, but hopefully someone Is picking up exactly what it is that makes it great and can move it on a little further down the line. We shall see :wink:

Thanks for your comments; as you say it is subjective. Thanks for engaging with a discussion.

As you guessed, I can't sing. This is an objective fact.

But I didn't say Dylan couldn't sing. I said "he sounds like an old man trying hard to sing in a way he cannot". He can't croon or whatever it is he's doing on the last three albums. The songs - which I hate - are based on the singer having a vocal quality Dylan has never had. I always think of it as vocal glamour - a quality I associate with singers like Sinatra or Tony Bennett or Dean Martin. Smooth and rather dull. Again, not a style I like at all. Dylan just can't do this - he is a bad singer when he's trying to be smooth. I think he's a far greater singer across his career than Sinatra (not a commonly held opinion) because he knew what he could do and did it astonishingly well. Many people hate Dylan's voice on "Love and Theft" - I think he sounds great because of the phrasing and the wit with which he uses his voice.

So I don't think Dylan can't sing, I just don't think he can sing these songs. As I hate the songs, this is perhaps not an entirely sound opinion - I'd hate anyone singing these songs (and have done all my life). One of the revolutions Dylan created was the realisation that the best singers didn't have to sound like Sinatra or Elvis. But there is a match between the song and the singer. It is like when opera singers sing musicals; I have no doubts about the voice and the talent, but they can't sing those songs. That's Dylan and the songs he is presently performing.


Concerning the band: what you describe is fine, but is almost the minimum for a good band. A few years back when Dylan toured this wasn't true - the Freeman/Kimball band frequently stomped on top of each other and I remember entire shows where Garnier and Receli were pretty much all you could hear. And the organ!

So the sound has certainly improved. What I totally miss with the current band is the sense that someone is going to soar, is going to surprise me with a solo or even a turn of phrase that they haven't played many many times previously. I thought there was a chance Duke Robilliard was going to take Dylan there, but he got sacked. I'm not questioning the quality of the players - and Charlie Sexton used to do this back betwen 1999 and 2002 - but I don't like what Dylan has them doing now. I've tried convincing myself that this is because they are playing so subtly, but I can't maintain this opinion for very long. They play tasteful predictable licks around a guy crooning badly.

Sometimes I'm reminded of the Rundown performance of "You're A Big Girl Now" when they seem to accidentally start performing the song as a saloon bar standard. But the difference in quality is simply incredible: first, the song is far better than the stuff on Triplicate; second, the singer is far far better; third, the band is responsive and clearly having a blast. Here's Dylan not crooning properly, and it is thrilling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZRzdWD4Qio
I think you've put your finger on the problem - you don't like the 1940s songs, you don't like Sinatra and his contemporaries. Personally, I like both - I consider Sinatra's "In The Wee Small Hours" album to be every bit the equal of Blood On The Tracks", for example. As for whether Dylan can sing that material, it depends what you mean. He certainly can't sing it like Sinatra. But he CAN sing it like Bob Dylan. And therein lies the power of SITN, FA and Triplicate. It's tapping into the wellspring of the American musical heritage - just like his trad folk, country and blues covers - in order to express his own inner self. Just as relevant as his own compositions. Right now, I'm getting more pleasure from listening to Triplicate than I am from (say) Desire, or Street Legal.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 15:37 GMT 
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mjmooney wrote:
I think you've put your finger on the problem - you don't like the 1940s songs, you don't like Sinatra and his contemporaries. Personally, I like both - I consider Sinatra's "In The Wee Small Hours" album to be every bit the equal of Blood On The Tracks", for example.

Say whaaaaa?!?!
Come on, mooney, let´s not lose it! We´re all big fans of the bobster here. He can write a mean lyric and all that, but comparing even his best work to In the wee small hours is beyond nuts!

In the wee small hours, like Sinatra sings for only the lonely, Songs for swinging lovers and perhaps a few other LPs of Frank at his best is simply as good as pop music, meaning 3 minute songs, verse/chorus/verse type of thing, has ever got or will ever get!
The only ones that come close, and perhaps at their very peak even reach his level, are to me Nina Simone, Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday.

Dylan is the best on his league, but those guys play on the Premier, and he´s on 3rd regional!


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 15:44 GMT 
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wormington wrote:
mjmooney wrote:
I think you've put your finger on the problem - you don't like the 1940s songs, you don't like Sinatra and his contemporaries. Personally, I like both - I consider Sinatra's "In The Wee Small Hours" album to be every bit the equal of Blood On The Tracks", for example.

Say whaaaaa?!?!
Come on, mooney, let´s not lose it! We´re all big fans of the bobster here. He can write a mean lyric and all that, but comparing even his best work to In the wee small hours is beyond nuts!

In the wee small hours, like Sinatra sings for only the lonely, Songs for swinging lovers and perhaps a few other LPs of Frank at his best is simply as good as pop music, meaning 3 minute songs, verse/chorus/verse type of thing, has ever got or will ever get!
The only ones that come close, and perhaps at their very peak even reach his level, are to me Nina Simone, Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday.

Dylan is the best on his league, but those guys play on the Premier, and he´s on 3rd regional!


WHAT. THE. HELL?!!??!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 15:46 GMT 
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bloodblondehighwayhome wrote:
WHAT. THE. HELL?!!??!!

Deep inside you know I´m right, bbhh! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 15:57 GMT 
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No, I really, really don't. Sorry.
You don't call the greatest songwriter of all times, one of the greatest artists of the 20th century, in any field, a "3rd regional player" and get away with it.
I'm very passionate about this kind of thing because Dylan means an awful lot to me and frankly, I wouldn't have expected to read this ^ on ER.


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 Post subject: Re: The Dark Ages
PostPosted: Thu November 30th, 2017, 15:58 GMT 

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Posts: 460
I honestly think that in 200 years when people write about the cultural annals of the USA in our era, it will be the Great American Songbook that is seen as the high water mark of American music, rock is a step down. Now Dylan is absolutely one of the greatest songwriters in history and will be remembered as such, but rock music is a huge step down in music from jazz. That's sure to be an unpopular opinion here, but guitar based three or four chord songs are just not as interesting as well composed music made by composers with actual musical training. Saying that these days makes you a snob, but who would rather see the scribbled drawings of a teenager than paintings painted by actual trained artists who take time to learn their craft. I loved rock when I was younger, but as I get older I find myself going to Ella Fitzgerald or Sinatra or the great jazz artists for more rewarding emotional experiences. I love Dylan, but I think he has been feeling the same lately. I mean how many boring endless 10 minute jams do you need through the three chords of All Along the Watchtower?


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