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 Post subject: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 18:18 GMT 

Joined: Fri June 2nd, 2006, 16:33 GMT
Posts: 295
Found this on Watchtower, a great collection of songs that influenced L&T and MT. A few weeks back someone said we should gather all these, and here they are. Thanks to the owner of the webpage and the compiler!

http://www.dylancollector.com/moderntheft/


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 19:24 GMT 
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Location: I should be in Hollywood.
This is an answered prayer.

Now, I gotta wait 'til I get home to download 'em.


-dELVIS-


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 19:30 GMT 

Joined: Fri December 7th, 2007, 18:46 GMT
Posts: 106
Omg i can't believe how tweedle dee is just completely stolen, jeez


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 19:34 GMT 
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Joined: Sun November 26th, 2006, 10:45 GMT
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Location: Northern Ireland
What was it Bob told us ...'If I were a thief, perhaps I'd rob them ....' ... Well done, Bob - you got away with it. Love and cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 20:52 GMT 

Joined: Sat March 31st, 2007, 23:15 GMT
Posts: 124
Does this make you lose any respect for bobby?

How does he get away with just completely stealing all these songs


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 20:58 GMT 
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madagascar wrote:
Does this make you lose any respect for bobby?

How does he get away with just completely stealing all these songs


Over dinner about 25 years ago Jimmy Page told him "Keep a straight face and cash the checks." He must have written that down.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:10 GMT 
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Sweeeeeeeeet!
Thanks so much!


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:20 GMT 
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Long Johnny wrote:
madagascar wrote:
Does this make you lose any respect for bobby?

How does he get away with just completely stealing all these songs


Over dinner about 25 years ago Jimmy Page told him "Keep a straight face and cash the checks." He must have written that down.


Key to all acts of fraud & piracy... Never write anything down.


-dELVIS-


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:23 GMT 
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madagascar wrote:
Does this make you lose any respect for bobby?

How does he get away with just completely stealing all these songs


Seeing as how there's at least 4 "hit" songs on the radio that all use the same chord progressions (Em-C-G-D is a favorite), I don't really mind it. Truth be told, if he was to rip off a more contemporary song I'm pretty sure he'd have some legal issues on his hands. Some of these songs aren't just "inspiration" for his - they are definite blue-prints.


-dELVIS-


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:25 GMT 
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delvis_crasho wrote:
madagascar wrote:
Does this make you lose any respect for bobby?

How does he get away with just completely stealing all these songs


Seeing as how there's at least 4 "hit" songs on the radio that all use the same chord progressions (Em-C-G-D is a favorite), I don't really mind it. Truth be told, if he was to rip off a more contemporary song I'm pretty sure he'd have some legal issues on his hands. Some of these songs aren't just "inspiration" for his - they are definite blue-prints.


-dELVIS-



Dylan's 1989-present work is so f*cking spectacular, I don't give a tin shit that some of his tunes and lyrics are twinned with older, simpler songs


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:34 GMT 
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idiot with wind wrote:
Dylan's 1989-present work is so f*cking spectacular, I don't give a tin shit that some of his tunes and lyrics are twinned with older, simpler songs


Don't get me wrong, I don't mind it; in fact, I think it makes the songs much more mysterious and powerful.

But I do enjoy being objective and stating the reality that, in these modern times, Dylan's awfully lucky he hasn't been served with papers. I can imagine that some of the owners of these songs take it as an "honor" to have Bob tranform a song that is their property. I don't know. I can't say. Johnny Cash pretty much ripped him off with "Understand Your Man;" I don't know if he ever gave Dylan a writing credit for that.

It's all pretty interesting to me.


-dELVIS-


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:37 GMT 
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I think you raise a good point there as certainly the author of Confession of a Yakuza saw it as a huge compliment to have Dylan use certain phrases. That said, I can see where Dylan was coming from in sueing Hootie and the Blowfish for appropriating his lyrics - their music is shitcakes :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:55 GMT 
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Dylan...wot a creep!


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 21:57 GMT 
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The Friends episode with Hootie and the Blowfish is a low-point of American TV


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 22:21 GMT 
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Both Rollin' and Tumblin' and Someday Baby are ripped off from Muddy Waters' versions, NOT the versions on this list. And I mean parts of the lyrics, arrangements, drumpatterns, solos- the whole shebang. The versions listed here are really not that similar, but go check out Muddys' versions, especially Rollin' and Tumblin' and you'll see (hear) what I mean.

And to be perfectly honest: Muddys' versions of both songs are clearly superior.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Tue December 9th, 2008, 23:20 GMT 
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Wow. Esp. Gene Austin's highly haunting 'Lonesome Road' is a total blueprint for Sugar Baby. I've always defended (from those who continue to mistake art for a term paper) the practice of borrowing. I even tried following some Burroughs-esque 'cut-up' formulas for writing poetry. This process works amazingly well, it's fascinating how the mind constructs sense out of randomness, but in the end I found the results not very satisfying. They felt impersonal, sort of like what comes out when you feed some lines into babelfish. (Better was a technique where you take a poem in a language you don't understand and translate it based on the sounds into similar-sounding English, and work from there). But anyway I wonder if Dylan feels less proud, or less interested, ultimately, in songs like this one where his method of composition pretty much consisted of taking a song whole cloth and changing some of the words. Or does he love a song like Lonesome Road so much that he just wants a way to be able to be sing it in concert under his own aegis?

That said, I love that he's resuscitating these songs that virtually no one remembers, (otherwise who amongst us has been withholding this Gene Austin information for seven years?) songs that i for one would have trouble getting into without his Rosetta Stone-like penchant for helping translate into Rock idiom what was previously indecipherably hoary.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 00:44 GMT 
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Anyone willing to bet their life on their presumption of who actually composed any of these tunes is as good as dead.

Dylan is a long-time student of song, and knows quite well what is valid copyright and what isn't.

Remember this: He never got successfully sued (though I think he settled with some peers).


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 02:22 GMT 

Joined: Fri August 15th, 2008, 15:23 GMT
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OneRoomCountryShack wrote:
Omg i can't believe how tweedle dee is just completely stolen, jeez


Stolen is putting it mildly. Bobby could end up OJ's cellmate.....


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 03:52 GMT 
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lowgen wrote:
Anyone willing to bet their life on their presumption of who actually composed any of these tunes is as good as dead.

Dylan is a long-time student of song, and knows quite well what is valid copyright and what isn't.

Remember this: He never got successfully sued (though I think he settled with some peers).


What does that mean? That he "knew" the Japanese novel wasn't protected? Bullshit. Of course it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 04:12 GMT 

Joined: Fri June 2nd, 2006, 16:33 GMT
Posts: 295
P.Jekk wrote:
Both Rollin' and Tumblin' and Someday Baby are ripped off from Muddy Waters' versions, NOT the versions on this list. And I mean parts of the lyrics, arrangements, drumpatterns, solos- the whole shebang. The versions listed here are really not that similar, but go check out Muddys' versions, especially Rollin' and Tumblin' and you'll see (hear) what I mean.

And to be perfectly honest: Muddys' versions of both songs are clearly superior.


True. Muddy's version of Someday Baby is called Trouble No More, and indeed does closely resemble Bob's itunes commercial.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 07:44 GMT 

Joined: Wed June 18th, 2008, 23:32 GMT
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Location: Timmins
Its not really a big deal to me. He has taken things from other songs throughout his career.


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 09:54 GMT 
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josemesa wrote:
P.Jekk wrote:
Both Rollin' and Tumblin' and Someday Baby are ripped off from Muddy Waters' versions, NOT the versions on this list. And I mean parts of the lyrics, arrangements, drumpatterns, solos- the whole shebang. The versions listed here are really not that similar, but go check out Muddys' versions, especially Rollin' and Tumblin' and you'll see (hear) what I mean.

And to be perfectly honest: Muddys' versions of both songs are clearly superior.


True. Muddy's version of Someday Baby is called Trouble No More, and indeed does closely resemble Bob's itunes commercial.


Yes, they are pretty close, but the arrangements of Rollin and Tumblin are virtually identical. Only difference is that Muddy did his in the 1950's and Bob did his in 2007.....


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 11:02 GMT 
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holy shitballs


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 11:21 GMT 
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The funny thing is that the best music (as opposed to lyrics) he has released during the last twenty years are those song that are more or less totally his own:

TOOM-Yes, there are lots and lots of stolen/borrowed lyrics, -snippets of old folksongs but the music is mostly original, including the blues songs.

Cross The Green Mountain-a towering later day masterpiece.

Mississippi and Highwater from L&T- the best songs on that album has no direct precedent as far as I know.

Lonesome Day Blues a very effective standard blues, but is not based on any single song as far as I can tell..

Nettie Moore-one of the most musically interesting songs in the late Dylan canon, again with some borrowed lyrics.

Someday Baby on TTS is so much better (and more original) than the Muddy Waters rip off on MT. Even the musicians called it the one on MT "the Muddy Waters version".

Working Man's Blues- the title is nod to Merle Haggard but musically it is a (typical) Dylan song


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 Post subject: Re: Modern Theft
PostPosted: Wed December 10th, 2008, 15:59 GMT 
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P.Jekk wrote:
TOOM-Yes, there are lots and lots of stolen/borrowed lyrics, -snippets of old folksongs but the music is mostly original, including the blues songs.


Check out "Strange Love" by Slim Harpo - blue-print for "'Til I Fell In Love With You." I believe "Dirt Road Blues" is a cousin to another song as well.

P.Jekk wrote:
Highwater from L&T- the best songs on that album has no direct precedent as far as I know.


"High Water Everywhere (pt.1 & 2)" by Charley Patton.

P.Jekk wrote:
Lonesome Day Blues a very effective standard blues, but is not based on any single song as far as I can tell..


I can't remember where I heard the guitar riff from this one... In a Son House song, I think. Can anyone confirm? I can't remember who laid out the ground-work for "Cry A While," either - some Mississippi Sheiks song isn't it?


-dELVIS-


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