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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 09:44 GMT 
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I think the comparison between this latest move and him going electric is just not in the same league.

This material feels like music written to order, to fulfil contracts, to supply 'product' to the general masses to have on while at hypothetical dinner parties or luncheons and whilst entertaining a small group of guests at some inner city town house. I don't hate this material, I simply have no feelings about it, it's product through-and-through, dispassionate, with feelings and human emotions expressed in this chocolate-box package of comfy, often saccharine pathos, which has nothing to do with real life.

Shadows worked because it was in Dylan's typical brazen style of an image change, a confrontation, a provocation. With the exception of 1 or 2 songs, it was a coherent maybe even touching, collection with deftly selected tracks. Now it's all just become boringly routine, with only the novelty being the sheer audacity of a 95 minute collection of this stuff spanning 3 disks. I love Dylan but this quote just seems ludicrous:

"I’ve hit upon new ways to uncover and interpret these songs that are right in line with the best recordings of my own songs, and my band and I really seemed to hit our stride on every level with Triplicate" (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... ve-w467630)

Either his memory is failing or he's being deliberately provocative here regarding his own legacy and our impressions of it.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 11:04 GMT 

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bobfan wrote:
monklover wrote:

And once it was a folk audience, many of whom were as alienated by his rock'n'rolling as any of the whiners writing here. As he famously said after leaving Isle of Wight: people make too much of singers.

I wish the creeps who say you can only listen to this or that kind of music would just shove it. They can listen to what they want and so can I. Richard Rodgers' music will live as long as anything from the 20th century. So will Chuck Berry's.

You would think that any Dylan fan would be accustomed to him doing what he pleases. But, no, there's always some heresy they're going on about like a bunch of priests.


I don't think there's anything wrong with a healthy debate, I mean that's what groups are for right? Just because people express a dislike for the standards doesn't mean they're creeps. I would argue that the 1966 analogy doesn't hold up though; we were all so much younger then, we're older than that now.


I wasn't even born in 1966, so I see it with even more distance. Singer goes on stage, does a different style of music to what is expected of him. Crowd are outraged. He shouldn't be doing this! Even though he played a set of acoustic stuff as well.

It doesn't matter that the music was "better" then. He's been through a lot of phases (that's what geniuses do) and some are naturally going to appeal more than others. Nothing wrong with disliking some of them, or saying that, though of course it's subjective to an extent.

It's the hostile reaction to the existance of these phases that seems all-to-similar to 1966. At that time it was un-precedented. You'd think people would have learned or mellowed a bit by now. This is the effect Bob Dylan has on people, this is what he does. He winds people up, effortlessly. A by-product of following his own path.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 11:56 GMT 

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to me, sinatra often buried these songs, in voice and orchestration . maybe it is a windup


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 12:34 GMT 
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Yellowgoat wrote:
I wasn't even born in 1966, so I see it with even more distance. Singer goes on stage, does a different style of music to what is expected of him. Crowd are outraged. He shouldn't be doing this! Even though he played a set of acoustic stuff as well.

It doesn't matter that the music was "better" then. He's been through a lot of phases (that's what geniuses do) and some are naturally going to appeal more than others. Nothing wrong with disliking some of them, or saying that, though of course it's subjective to an extent.

It's the hostile reaction to the existance of these phases that seems all-to-similar to 1966. At that time it was un-precedented. You'd think people would have learned or mellowed a bit by now. This is the effect Bob Dylan has on people, this is what he does. He winds people up, effortlessly. A by-product of following his own path.


If by following his own path you mean limping knackered down the middle of a road already well and truly beaten by others, not once, not twice, but three times in a f*cking row, then yeah he follows his own path.

Go Bob Dylan, truly free artistic spirit! He don't need no satnav!


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 13:03 GMT 
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Yellowgoat wrote:

I wasn't even born in 1966, so I see it with even more distance. Singer goes on stage, does a different style of music to what is expected of him. Crowd are outraged. He shouldn't be doing this! Even though he played a set of acoustic stuff as well.

It doesn't matter that the music was "better" then. He's been through a lot of phases (that's what geniuses do) and some are naturally going to appeal more than others. Nothing wrong with disliking some of them, or saying that, though of course it's subjective to an extent.

It's the hostile reaction to the existance of these phases that seems all-to-similar to 1966. At that time it was un-precedented. You'd think people would have learned or mellowed a bit by now. This is the effect Bob Dylan has on people, this is what he does. He winds people up, effortlessly. A by-product of following his own path.


I don't think there's any comparison really. It's a question whether Dylan is even aware of a few people on a forum griping. The critical and public reaction and sales after Shadows & Angels have been uniformly positive and encouraging. 1965-66 was hostile and quite nasty, with numerous press reports on disturbances at concerts.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 13:09 GMT 

Joined: Tue September 25th, 2012, 19:24 GMT
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gerardv wrote:
Yellowgoat wrote:

I wasn't even born in 1966, so I see it with even more distance. Singer goes on stage, does a different style of music to what is expected of him. Crowd are outraged. He shouldn't be doing this! Even though he played a set of acoustic stuff as well.

It doesn't matter that the music was "better" then. He's been through a lot of phases (that's what geniuses do) and some are naturally going to appeal more than others. Nothing wrong with disliking some of them, or saying that, though of course it's subjective to an extent.

It's the hostile reaction to the existance of these phases that seems all-to-similar to 1966. At that time it was un-precedented. You'd think people would have learned or mellowed a bit by now. This is the effect Bob Dylan has on people, this is what he does. He winds people up, effortlessly. A by-product of following his own path.


It's a question whether Dylan is even aware of a few people on a forum griping. The critical and public reaction and sales after Shadows & Angels have been uniformly positive and encouraging. 1965-66 was hostile and quite nasty, with numerous press reports on disturbances at concerts.


That's true, but I think that's missing my point.

Worth noting too that it's not all booing on the 1966 recordings. Not everyone hated it, but those who did were very vocal.

McG wrote:

If by following his own path you mean limping knackered down the middle of a road already well and truly beaten by others, not once, not twice, but three times in a f*cking row, then yeah he follows his own path.

Go Bob Dylan, truly free artistic spirit! He don't need no satnav!


If he lives long enough, I expect him to eventually diversify into rap, trance, brass band etc. And he didn't buy those bagpipes in 2009 for no reason! :D


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 15:08 GMT 
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Question for Yellowgoat and Goodmeats:

Is there anything about Bob Dylan you don't like? Maybe an album, a song, his hair die...anything. Anything at all. If there are any songs or albums maybe you could name a few of them.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 15:35 GMT 

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gerardv wrote:
I don't think there's any comparison really. It's a question whether Dylan is even aware of a few people on a forum griping. The critical and public reaction and sales after Shadows & Angels have been uniformly positive and encouraging. 1965-66 was hostile and quite nasty, with numerous press reports on disturbances at concerts.


I doubt he's aware or that he would care were he aware. Most of the 1966 legend is made by those weirdo folkies who wouldn't let go. What neurotics! The very epitome of hung up. Creeps without any sense of proportion. But, as was pointed out to me, moaning in a forum is easily done and harmless.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 16:09 GMT 
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"A touch of Frank Sinatra" ( at 8 mins 54 seconds).

http://www.veoh.com/m/watch.php?v=v17258395kcPEy3Aq

That "gothic" typeface !
That 'ol black magic !


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 18:57 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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All those complaining should take a deep breath and be grateful for what you've got. I remember thinking, before TOOM was released and it looked like Dylan might never write another original song, that I had no right to complain. He had by this time already released an incomparable body of work and he most certainly owed people nothing. Surely, he has earned the right to indulge himself?

He can bring out as many albums of whatever kind of music he wishes. We are not compelled to buy them. Maybe one of these days one of them will contain original songs and we'll all be sucking diesel again.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 19:47 GMT 

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Tim Finnegan wrote:
Question for Yellowgoat and Goodmeats:

Is there anything about Bob Dylan you don't like? Maybe an album, a song, his hair die...anything. Anything at all. If there are any songs or albums maybe you could name a few of them.

Thanks.


I like maybe 50% of his albums. And of course, their value to anyone is determined solely by whether I like them or not.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 19:50 GMT 
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I'm just sad he's decided to become such a bore.


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 20:35 GMT 
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yopietro wrote:
Quick experiment: Sit back. Put on Just Like a Woman from Blonde on Blonde. Next, give Stardust from Triplicate a spin. Harsh?

Blonde on blonde was recorded 1965-66.
The superb album Triplicate was recorded around 50 years later :D!
Thank you Mr. Bob Dylan :D
Shine on you crazy diamond


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PostPosted: Mon March 20th, 2017, 20:52 GMT 
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Yellowgoat wrote:
Tim Finnegan wrote:
Question for Yellowgoat and Goodmeats:

Is there anything about Bob Dylan you don't like? Maybe an album, a song, his hair die...anything. Anything at all. If there are any songs or albums maybe you could name a few of them.

Thanks.


I like maybe 50% of his albums. And of course, their value to anyone is determined solely by whether I like them or not.

Well played sir :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue March 21st, 2017, 08:39 GMT 

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3 stars for Triplicate in Mojo. General summary is some great singing and playing but too long and by now "lacking the revelatory impact of Shadows" which all sounds pretty reasonable to me without having heard the final product of course.


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PostPosted: Tue March 21st, 2017, 08:40 GMT 
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MrJudasPriest wrote:
3 stars for Triplicate in Mojo. General summary is some great singing and playing but too long and by now "lacking the revelatory impact of Shadows" which all sounds pretty reasonable to me without having heard the final product of course.


3 out of 4 or 3 out of 10?


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PostPosted: Tue March 21st, 2017, 09:07 GMT 

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3 out of 5 I'm almost sure


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PostPosted: Tue March 21st, 2017, 11:25 GMT 
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MrJudasPriest wrote:
3 out of 5 I'm almost sure


Yes. Mark Lanegan's new one gets 5 stars too, to prove there is justice in the world.


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PostPosted: Tue March 21st, 2017, 15:07 GMT 
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McG wrote:
Yes. Mark Lanegan's new one gets 5 stars too, to prove there is justice in the world.


I'm looking forward to this one.


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 06:29 GMT 

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Online review here http://bobdylan.com/on-tour/


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 06:59 GMT 

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This is the AP review. Some positive comments ("his voice is surprisingly supple,
even lovely") but in an understated kind of way, the final paragraph is
rather devastating.


By DAVID BAUDER, AP Entertainment Writer

Bob Dylan, "Triplicate," (Columbia)

The idea of Bob Dylan becoming the keeper of Frank Sinatra's flame would have seemed preposterous 50 years ago. Dylan was revolutionizing songwriting in a torrent of words back then, instantly making the classics sung by Sinatra another generation's music. Parents' music.

Yet after two releases delving into the songs primarily from the first half of the last century, Dylan doesn't just double down on the strategy. "Triplicate" is, as the name implies, a three-disc thematic set of similar material. Virtually all of the songs were once covered by Sinatra.

It seems like an odd direction for America's greatest living songwriter, fresh off a Nobel Prize. Dylan hasn't released a disc of self-penned material since 2012, and it's worth wondering if the well has run dry. Maybe the inscrutable Dylan just likes singing these songs and wants to keep them alive.

Singing is the last thing you'd expect to hear discussed on a Dylan disc, yet his voice is surprisingly supple, even lovely. He reaches for, and finds, notes that you wouldn't think possible. The songs are recorded in a hushed, intimate setting with spare backing from his longtime band, many resting on a bed of steel guitar. They deserve to be heard in a cabaret setting.

These are songs of missed opportunities and lost love that feel right coming from a 75-year-old man. "We were young and didn't have a care," he sings in "Once Upon a Time." ''Where did it go?"

Songs like "Stormy Weather," ''September of My Years," ''Stardust" and "Sentimental Journey" are familiar, but others will be new to fans weaned on rock 'n' roll.

As well performed as the material is, the slower tempos allow a sense of sameness to creep in. "Triplicate" is more of a historical document than a contemporary recording, and absent a curiosity about songwriting of this era, some tedium is inevitable.


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 08:19 GMT 

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And from the front page a positive review from No Depression http://nodepression.com/album-review/third-times-charm Ms. Daniels generally knows her stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 11:06 GMT 
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MrJudasPriest wrote:
And from the front page a positive review from No Depression http://nodepression.com/album-review/third-times-charm Ms. Daniels generally knows her stuff.


Yes, Priest. It's a thoughtful, positive, educational review. Even sounds delightful.
Good on her. Just wish I wasn't so freakin bored with this style of music, dammit.

Album Review
Third Time's A Charm
Bob Dylan - Triplicate


by Anne Margaret Daniel
March 20, 2017


Why "triplicate"? There are many ways to say things that come in threes. Some are musical, some are baseball, some sexy or political or bookish or religious or painterly: trio, triad, triple, trinity, triptych, triumvirate, threesome, tripartite, trilogy. Why did Dylan choose this title for his latest record, and his first three-disc album ever, to be released on March 31?

"Triplicate" goes "duplicate" one better. The thirty (three times ten-to-a-disc) songs on this record include many that were also, once upon a time, recorded by Frank Sinatra. However, it's as wrong to call Triplicate an album of "Sinatra covers" as it was to apply the description to Shadows In The Night (2015) or Fallen Angels (2016). Were this a record of Dylan covering Sinatra, you might call it "Duplicate." On this third album of standards chiefly from Dylan's own lifetime, starting in his youngest years in the early 1940s, he makes it crystal clear that he's not duplicating anyone else's earlier efforts, for those still thinking so.

Dylan does songs sung by Sinatra, but more famously done by others. Take "I Could Have Told You." Yes, Sinatra sang it. But so did Dinah Washington and Count Basie. "Stormy Weather"? Lena Horne, Billie Holiday. "P.S. I Love You"? Nope, not the Beatles, not even the same song; Bing Crosby, Rosemary Clooney. "The Best Is Yet To Come"? Tony Bennett. "As Time Goes By"? Francis Albert does not spring first to mind at all: it's Dooley Wilson.

Most of the songs on the three discs, entitled individually 'Til The Sun Goes Down, Devil Dolls and Comin' Home Late, were written by two people, a composer and a lyricist. All the greats are here: Richard Rogers and Oscar Hammerstein III, Jimmy Van Heusen and Johnny Burke, Hoagy Carmichael and Mitchell Parrish, Sammy Fain and Lew Brown. And there's someone else here, too — a composer and lyricist who plays both parts, who does it all himself. Bob Dylan, singer-songwriter, is collaborating on these golden old standards with their makers: three people. Triplicate.

The songs, according to Dylan's website, are "hand-chosen songs from an array of American songwriters" and "presented in a thematically-arranged 10-song sequence" on each disc. The first side, 'Til The Sun Goes Down, begins with one of the earliest songs included, "I Guess I'll Have to Change My Plans" (1929) and sweeps through love-lost lyrics of the 1930s-1950s, to conclude by looping back to a song Bing Crosby made a smash in 1939, "Trade Winds." Disc 2 has a curveball of a title — when I saw Devil Dolls, I thought immediately of Tod Browning's scary, and utterly weird (even for Browning!) The Devil-Doll (1936), the saga of a banker turned mad scientist (Lionel Barrymore) who escapes from Devil's Island to find his long-lost daughter (Maureen O'Sullivan). Devil Dolls begins with "Braggin'" — not, as one might suspect, Woody Guthrie's "Bragging Song," but a Tony Pastor and his Orchestra B-side song from Dylan's own earliest days. "As Time Goes By," one of the best-known American songs, was written back in 1931, but became the theme of Rick and Ilsa's Paris days in Casablanca (1942) in its legendary performance by Dooley Wilson when Dylan was a toddler, and World War II covered the earth.

This sassiest of all the discs closes with the jolly, self-deprecating, perhaps double-entendred "There's a Flaw In My Flue." Sinatra heard this song and loved it, and loved it in part because Bing Crosby hadn't recorded it. As Sinatra told the New York Times in 1990, "'When they played it, one of the record company guys says to me, 'What is this?' and I said, 'It's a love song.' I said, 'There's a flaw in my flue, beautiful.' ''

"Day In, Day Out" (1939), which I've always thought of as a Nat King Cole song, kicks off the last disc, Comin' Home Late. Like most of the tracks it is a love song, but like all of them, there's an edge and uncertainty to it: will we see each other? will you still love me? will I still love you? There's a comfort, but also a potential for great boredom, in something that goes on day in, day out, forever and ever amen. "Stardust" Dylan sings in tribute, it sounds to me, not to Sinatra or to anyone but Willie Nelson, and he sings it gorgeously. "It's Funny to Everyone But Me," made popular by the Ink Spots in 1939, is a lament of head vs. heart; the singer's head tells him no, but his heart still loves the woman lost, even if it's "the joke of the century." Unsurprisingly, there are traveling songs, like "Sentimental Journey" — Dylan's has been and remains a traveler's life. Triplicate ends on a dip back to the Jazz Age with the sad, seeking "Why Was I Born?" (1929). Covers of this song by women are its classics: Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Dorothy Lamour, Judy Garland. "Why was I born to love you?" asks the refrain, and no reply will ever come. "I'm a poor fool, but what can I do? Why was I born to love you?" Dylan's own songs, since the middle 1960s, have borrowed the trope of irrefragable questions — questions that cannot be answered, and to which no answer even seems possible or expected — from the ballad and, we now realize more fully, from the popular songs of his own life and times.

The music on these discs is clear as a bell, swoony and swingy and spectacularly full of sound and soul. Dylan's longtime traveling band backs his play well, and the master hand of Jack Frost — Dylan's own alias as producer — swirls everything together around the vocals. I've said it before, and it's nowhere clearer than on all these songs, that Dylan is a genius at phrasing: the splitting and delivery of a line, every breath and held or let-go note in place. Sinatra was too, of course; but Dylan is doing his own thing and his own versions, newly orchestrated and styled by him. "Stormy Weather" and "This Nearly Was Mine" are two of my favorite tracks on Triplicate, and they are back to back. Listen to them thus, as Dylan has meant you to, and hear just what I mean.

Go on, learn something about American music, about Bob Dylan and what he likes, and about yourself. It's not often that you have history, nostalgia, familiarity, love, and something new, ten to a side.


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 12:02 GMT 
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thank you barefoot ^
I did not appreciate shadows / fallen angels songs much, until I heard songs live & then wow!
He sings these songs so beautifully.
imho his performances of stuff from these albums- are generally best songs of the night.
cheers :D


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PostPosted: Wed March 22nd, 2017, 12:57 GMT 
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'Shadows' was a great surprise and contains some of Dylan's best vocals for years. It was especially surprising coming after 'Tempest', a very good album that played like some bloodthirsty historical novel but was hampered in places by rough vocals.
I was initially disappointed by 'Fallen Angels' but it grew on me and I prefer it to 'Shadows'. 'Shadows' cuts deep but the variety of tone and tempo in 'FA' makes for a more playable album overall.
Of the 3 'Triplicate' songs released the first 2 have the better vocals but I like 'Stardust' for the instrumentation, Dylan's vocals are not as assured though.
I'm looking forward to 'Triplicate' you can't have too much of a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

The playing on CITH is superb but the Wolfman vocals don't work on this material for me. I would rank it at the bottom of Dylan's studio albums, below even the mid 80's albums.

A much as I would like another album of original songs if this how Dylan chooses to close out his career it would be a graceful way to bow out.


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