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Will You buy the Live 1966 box?
Poll ended at Thu November 10th, 2016, 12:11 GMT
Yes 60%  60%  [ 93 ]
No 25%  25%  [ 39 ]
Still don't know 15%  15%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 155
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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 09:45 GMT 

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pol2jem wrote:
carnap wrote:
Yes you are missing something and it's pretty simple. When I said it was too expensive that means it is too expensive in my opinion. I am not willing to spend that much money on it.

However if you want to spend that much money on it be my guest. How you spend your money is your business.

There is another factor in this. 36 CDs is a bit too much for me to be willing to sit down and listen to. If they sold them as single CDs maybe I'd buy a few and listen to those.

And since I don't patronize Starbucks and drink beer that comparison doesn't impress me.


:) I'm less confused now.

I now understand that it doesn't represent value for money to you. To me, that's different to being "too expensive".

Surely it's indisputable that the price, for the commoditiy being marketed, is as cheap as chips. If it were 3 times the price it would represent good value to me. And if they did sell them as single CDs the total cost probably would be 3 times the price of the box as a single CD over here normally retails for £9.

No, I don't patronise coffee shops or drink alcohol either. Too expensive for me. :)


If they sold the concerts singly, I would buy some (as I will with RAH). This would not preclude them from offering the present good deal for the whole lot, for those who wanted them. This way, I can't see how everyone does not win.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 09:59 GMT 
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boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
I'm just enerally getting very sick of these "everything and the kitchen sink" releases over the last few years. BS8 and 10 were such revelations because they wer carefully curated and completely made me rethink their respective eras. I know exactly what I'm in for here and while it's definitely a well priced set I just know I won't listen to that many shows more than once. I didn't download these boots when they were free why would I buy them now. I'll grab the RAH Vinyl because it will be nice to have another show from that tour to put on and the Manchester sound quality grates on me a bit but overall I'm really REALLY tired of these massive sixties cash cows.


Well, in fairness to Bob Inc, they also certainly don't want to release everything and the kitchen sink. Their hands have been forced by EU copyright law.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 10:54 GMT 

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Their hands have only been "forced by EU copyright law" if they want to make sure they make money of those concert recordings. Nothing wrong with making money; I'd like to do a bit more of it myself. But they made a business choice some other artists - who allow their work to be freely distributed - have not made. It's not about copyright law. It's about business. Nothing wrong with that, IMO, but let's be clear about it.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 11:11 GMT 
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Maggie's Brother wrote:
Their hands have only been "forced by EU copyright law" if they want to make sure they make money of those concert recordings. Nothing wrong with making money; I'd like to do a bit more of it myself. But they made a business choice some other artists - who allow their work to be freely distributed - have not made. It's not about copyright law. It's about business. Nothing wrong with that, IMO, but let's be clear about it.


Yes, it's very clear. Bob Inc. is protecting the copyright on the recordings. It is a business decision brought about by a law passed in the EU.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 15:18 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
If they sold the concerts singly, I would buy some (as I will with RAH). This would not preclude them from offering the present good deal for the whole lot, for those who wanted them. This way, I can't see how everyone does not win.


I suppose it's possible they would if it were not, essentially, a copyright dump.

There is no doubt that nothing from the 1966 tour would be officially released this year if the EU had not passed its law. They could so easily have released a Big Red Expensive Limited Edition companion to the Collector's Edition of The Cutting Edge. As it is, with this box we are getting the bargain of the century.

How many shows would you consider buying, by the way? How many complete shows, bought singly, will add up to the cost of the entire box? Seven. The box gives you 13 complete shows and 10 partial shows.

Unlikely afterthought: I suppose also there might have been some thought that if the shows were released separately there are some people who would buy only those they didn't already have on the bootlegs.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 15:28 GMT 
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The price is really good, and bravo to Dylan/Sony for not screwing the fan base. I'll surely buy it at some point, though money is extremely tight right now.

I wish they were doing a compilation as their low cost alternative, instead of a complete show. I know I'm probably in a minority on that.

Mickvet wrote:
I have come to conclude that excessive quantity tends to inhibit depth of listening. When I first listened to Dylan over forty years ago, it was to play him over and over countless times, and always it seemed fresh and new. Now I have so much that I rarely, if ever, get time to listen to. To me, even the sheer volume becomes off-putting-one has to decide what to listen to, then find it! It was better when I hadn't enough of him.


This, too, though it has been a "problem" ever since the internet made bootlegs free. Back when they were 3 bus changes and twice the price of regular releases (or more) I listened to any show I got my hands on over and over again, sometimes coming to truly love things that made friends and family alike worry for my mental health.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 15:36 GMT 
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Nightingale's Code wrote:
Absolutely, don't even have to think about it

I read all about it here, had a look at bobdylan.com, spins, badlands, hmv and amazon. I just thought it was too good to be true and it ain't gonna be around for long. I made a cup of tea, thought about it and ordered it. Can't wait for it to be delivered!


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 15:54 GMT 
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I read very often that this box is very cheap. Well, not so cheap. It's really cheaper than the last year BS12 18CD, but that's all.

Why is cheap? Because there is a lot of Cd's and the cost of each one is only 4€?
Why is cheap? Because inside the box there are a lot of CD's that you already have, probably with the same sound that you have and a few hard to find and some never circulated boots?

Well I don't know if this box is cheap or is not cheap. The question is... how much do you pay only for the uncirculated shows? More than the price of the box? Then is cheap. If you don't pay this price for the uncirculated... then is expensive. I think this is the easiest formula to know if it's cheap or not.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 16:05 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
I wish they were doing a compilation as their low cost alternative, instead of a complete show. I know I'm probably in a minority on that.


Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I agree with you. I tend to prefer a compilation of interesting performances over a single concert with its ups and downs. With that in mind, I've always been happy that BS5 included cuts from numerous concerts in on the Rolling Thunder Revue. On the other hand, in '66 Dylan seems to have performed with a uniformly high level of quality, so I expect RAH 1966 will be lovely. Maybe it'll make for a better listening experience on the vinyl record too; the technology being what it was, I wonder what kind of audio differences exist between each of the concerts.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 16:24 GMT 
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belleseb32 wrote:
smoke wrote:
I wish they were doing a compilation as their low cost alternative, instead of a complete show. I know I'm probably in a minority on that.


Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I agree with you. I tend to prefer a compilation of interesting performances over a single concert with its ups and downs. With that in mind, I've always been happy that BS5 included cuts from numerous concerts in on the Rolling Thunder Revue. On the other hand, in '66 Dylan seems to have performed with a uniformly high level of quality, so I expect RAH 1966 will be lovely. Maybe it'll make for a better listening experience on the vinyl record too; the technology being what it was, I wonder what kind of audio differences exist between each of the concerts.


I think they are not going to do that, perhaps if this release was a BS they have to do it, but not in this Copyright Extension in disguise.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 16:30 GMT 

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boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
I'm just enerally getting very sick of these "everything and the kitchen sink" releases over the last few years. BS8 and 10 were such revelations because they wer carefully curated and completely made me rethink their respective eras. I know exactly what I'm in for here and while it's definitely a well priced set I just know I won't listen to that many shows more than once. I didn't download these boots when they were free why would I buy them now.


my first thoughts, after I read about the box, were similar and I didn´t want to buy it. Then I listened to "Cutting Edge" once more after months and registered, how interesting for me this kind of combination of songs is. Interesting and disenchanting too. For the new box I hope something different: Interesting and archaic. Less distance, more feeling. This would be worth it, even when I listen only one time to one of the Cds.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 16:35 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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pol2jem wrote:
Maggie's Brother wrote:
Their hands have only been "forced by EU copyright law" if they want to make sure they make money of those concert recordings. Nothing wrong with making money; I'd like to do a bit more of it myself. But they made a business choice some other artists - who allow their work to be freely distributed - have not made. It's not about copyright law. It's about business. Nothing wrong with that, IMO, but let's be clear about it.


Yes, it's very clear. Bob Inc. is protecting the copyright on the recordings. It is a business decision brought about by a law passed in the EU.


The only logical reason for protecting the kitchen sink is to release it later.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 18:23 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
pol2jem wrote:
Yes, it's very clear. Bob Inc. is protecting the copyright on the recordings. It is a business decision brought about by a law passed in the EU.


The only logical reason for protecting the kitchen sink is to release it later.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand a bit...?


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 18:34 GMT 
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pol2jem wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

The only logical reason for protecting the kitchen sink is to release it later.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand a bit...?


Ot to cash in now, and simultaneously ensure that nobody else can profit from 'their' artist - in that sense one could see this as a selfish move, but I think it is simply practical business. If they left something unreleased anyone in the EU could stick it out. I very much doubt they actually want to do this, but having done so, a future repackage is not unthinkable but would surely be a question of diminishing financial returns.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 18:59 GMT 
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Seriously when would they repackage and release this again. Surely not for another 10 years at least. Long after this is out of print. And the atrocious audience recordings will probably never see the official light of day again. It's more of a x-block move.


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PostPosted: Sun October 2nd, 2016, 19:51 GMT 
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slimtimslide wrote:
Or to cash in now, and simultaneously ensure that nobody else can profit from 'their' artist - in that sense one could see this as a selfish move, but I think it is simply practical business. If they left something unreleased anyone in the EU could stick it out. I very much doubt they actually want to do this, but having done so, a future repackage is not unthinkable but would surely be a question of diminishing financial returns.


Exactly.

To protect the copyright it has to be released on or before 31 December 2016 and this is what is being done. By a legitimate record company that owns the existing copyright. 36 beautifully designed CDs, all complete in a nice box with a booklet. For peanuts.

It also gives them the option of releasing part or all of it later, in or on other physical or digital formats and platforms; remastered, cleaned-up, as individual shows, with more between-song banter, replica programs, leopard-skin plastic spindles, and so on. It gives them control of their property.

If they don't do this kitchen sink release now, any number of pirates will release the existing bootlegs onto the mainstream market with impunity on 01 January 2017. It doesn't make sense to allow this to happen.

The first principle of all businesses must be to maximise profits. The second principle is to minimise losses.

If it were not for the EU law, most (perhaps none) of this would ever be released.


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 00:55 GMT 
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belleseb32 wrote:
I wonder what kind of audio differences exist between each of the concerts.


I'd expect the audience tapes to be the worst soundwise, the CBS tapes the best, the "soundboards" a mixed bag. The CBS tapes would almost surely be multi-track which would allow for mixing. Anything recorded direct stereo or direct mono will be subject to vagaries of onsite mixing at the time, and re-balancing / mixing them will be fairly limited. It doesn't have to stack up that way though. Audience tapes can be surprisingly good sometimes, but probably not here, since pro quality portable gear was farther up in the stratosphere for most people in the mid-60's.

Disc 1 - Sydney, April 13, 1966 (Soundboard recorded by TCN 9 TV Australia)
Disc 2 - Sydney, April 13, 1966 (Soundboard recorded by TCN 9 TV Australia)
Disc 3 - Melbourne, April 20, 1966 (Soundboard / unknown broadcast)
Disc 4 - Copenhagen, May 1, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 5 - Dublin, May 5, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 6 - Dublin, May 5, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 7 - Belfast, May 6, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 8 - Belfast, May 6, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 9 - Bristol, May 10, 1966 (Soundboard / audience)
Disc 10 - Bristol, May 10, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 11 - Cardiff, May 11, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 12 - Birmingham, May 12, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 13 - Birmingham, May 12, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 14 - Liverpool, May 14, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 15 - Leicester, May 15, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 16 - Leicester, May 15, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 17 - Sheffield, May 16, 1966 (CBS Records recording)
Disc 18 - Sheffield, May 16, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 19 - Manchester, May 17, 1966 (CBS Records recording)
Disc 20 - Manchester, May 17, 1966 (CBS Records recording except Soundcheck / Soundboard)
Disc 21 - Glasgow, May 19, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 22 - Edinburgh, May 20, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 23 - Edinburgh, May 20, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 24 - Newcastle, May 21, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 25 - Newcastle, May 21, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 26 - Paris, May 24, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 27 - Paris, May 24, 1966 (Soundboard)
Disc 28 - London, May 26, 1966 (CBS Records recording)
Disc 29 - London, May 26, 1966 (CBS Records recording)
Disc 30 - London, May 27, 1966 (CBS Records recording)\
Disc 31 - London, May 27, 1966 (CBS Records recordings)
Disc 32 - White Plains, NY, February 5, 1966 (Audience tape)
Disc 33 - Pittsburgh, PA, February 6, 1966 (Audience tape)
Disc 34 - Hempstead, NY, February 26, 1966 (Audience tape)
Disc 35 - Melbourne, April 19, 1966 (Audience tape)
Disc 36 - Stockholm, April 29, 1966 (Audience tape)


Last edited by Ain't Talkin' on Mon October 3rd, 2016, 00:59 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 00:58 GMT 
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Are any of the soundchecks going to be included? Probably not right?


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 01:58 GMT 
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Nightingale's Code wrote:
Are any of the soundchecks going to be included? Probably not right?


There appears to be one soundcheck track on disc 20:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/b ... t-15113764

(I also really like the color coding on this track list. Kudos to the OP.)


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 02:06 GMT 
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kuddukan wrote:
Nightingale's Code wrote:
Are any of the soundchecks going to be included? Probably not right?


There appears to be one soundcheck track on disc 20:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/b ... t-15113764

(I also really like the color coding on this track list. Kudos to the OP.)

Thanks for linking this, the color coding is very helpful


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 02:37 GMT 
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If you haven't joined yet over at the Hoffman forums, it's well worth it. There is a lot more excitement and discussion going on over Bob's new release than here at Expecting Rain........... More and more E.R. members are joining in the fun over there.....


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 03:30 GMT 

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kuddukan wrote:
Bob's new release
"new" doesn't feel right


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 07:32 GMT 

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pol2jem wrote:
Mickvet wrote:
If they sold the concerts singly, I would buy some (as I will with RAH). This would not preclude them from offering the present good deal for the whole lot, for those who wanted them. This way, I can't see how everyone does not win.


I suppose it's possible they would if it were not, essentially, a copyright dump.

There is no doubt that nothing from the 1966 tour would be officially released this year if the EU had not passed its law. They could so easily have released a Big Red Expensive Limited Edition companion to the Collector's Edition of The Cutting Edge. As it is, with this box we are getting the bargain of the century.

How many shows would you consider buying, by the way? How many complete shows, bought singly, will add up to the cost of the entire box? Seven. The box gives you 13 complete shows and 10 partial shows.

Unlikely afterthought: I suppose also there might have been some thought that if the shows were released separately there are some people who would buy only those they didn't already have on the bootlegs.


Sorry, I missed your question. It is not the money. It is just too much stuff. I'd never listen to it all, and to none of it in any depth.

As for those who have certain bootlegs, I would think it only fair to Dylan that, of them all, these are the ones that should be bought. They've had the use of them and if they wish to continue to do so, they should pay for the privilege now that they are for sale.


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 07:34 GMT 

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pol2jem wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

The only logical reason for protecting the kitchen sink is to release it later.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Could you expand a bit...?


Missed this question too. Slimtimslide explained it better than I could.


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PostPosted: Mon October 3rd, 2016, 08:27 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
Sorry, I missed your question. It is not the money. It is just too much stuff. I'd never listen to it all, and to none of it in any depth.

As for those who have certain bootlegs, I would think it only fair to Dylan that, of them all, these are the ones that should be bought. They've had the use of them and if they wish to continue to do so, they should pay for the privilege now that they are for sale.


Bravo on your last point - totally agree! Of course, I'll hang onto my Genuine Live 1966 as well...

I sincerely hope you won't regret not spending the 110 Euros on this box. "Never" could be a long time coming, but I certainly understand the overload fatigue brought about by these huge releases. I've barely scratched the surface of the 1965 Live Copyright download which came with the BS12 Collector's Edition, for example. One day I'll find the time.


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