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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Thu March 1st, 2018, 22:51 GMT 
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There's one at every party!


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 17:23 GMT 
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McG wrote:
I saw Thea Gilmore perform JWH live. Amazing.


Was that The Union Chapel gig in 2011, by any chance? Wish I could've been there. She's released many a fine album. The most recent, "The Counterweight" grows...


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 18:37 GMT 
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pol2jem wrote:
McG wrote:
I saw Thea Gilmore perform JWH live. Amazing.


Was that The Union Chapel gig in 2011, by any chance? Wish I could've been there. She's released many a fine album. The most recent, "The Counterweight" grows...


Yep that one


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 19:00 GMT 
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I'm I the only one among Dylan-connoisseurs who thinks the Minneapolis takes are superior? I feel like a philistine saying it, and maybe it's sentimentality dressing as an educated opinion, but the NY tracks, to me, seems a little lackluster. They don't hit me as hard as the official tracks. They dont speak to me.
Normally I love anything that's stark, subdued, or any shade of art brut, I mean, The Rundown Rehearsal Tapes are by musical bible, because of its unfinished, raw nature. But the NY tracks don't do much for me. Not after umpteenth listens. Squat.
Let the punishment begin, or indifference, whatever causes most pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 19:08 GMT 

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Anr Bjotk wrote:
I'm I the only one among Dylan-connoisseurs who thinks the Minneapolis takes are superior? I feel like a philistine saying it, and maybe it's sentimentality dressing as an educated opinion, but the NY tracks, to me, seems a little lackluster. They don't hit me as hard as the official tracks. They dont speak to me.
Normally I love anything that's stark, subdued, or any shade of art brut, I mean, The Rundown Rehearsal Tapes are by musical bible, because of its unfinished, raw nature. But the NY tracks don't do much for me. Not after umpteenth listens. Squat.
Let the punishment begin, or indifference, whatever causes most pain.


No judgement from me, I love the Minneapolis cuts. I enjoy the New York takes as well, but the Minneapolis have an energy that I really love, and I think they are a great addition to the final album. The only thing I’d disagree on is that the NY cuts don’t do anything, for me they still work just fine. But there’s a clarity in the other tracks that I love, and they seem to hold up better in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 19:20 GMT 
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^They're all top notch stuff, both Minneapolis and the NY stuff. Hard to place one above the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 19:27 GMT 
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ShotofMercy wrote:
Anr Bjotk wrote:
I'm I the only one among Dylan-connoisseurs who thinks the Minneapolis takes are superior? I feel like a philistine saying it, and maybe it's sentimentality dressing as an educated opinion, but the NY tracks, to me, seems a little lackluster. They don't hit me as hard as the official tracks. They dont speak to me.
Normally I love anything that's stark, subdued, or any shade of art brut, I mean, The Rundown Rehearsal Tapes are by musical bible, because of its unfinished, raw nature. But the NY tracks don't do much for me. Not after umpteenth listens. Squat.
Let the punishment begin, or indifference, whatever causes most pain.


No judgement from me, I love the Minneapolis cuts. I enjoy the New York takes as well, but the Minneapolis have an energy that I really love, and I think they are a great addition to the final album. The only thing I’d disagree on is that the NY cuts don’t do anything, for me they still work just fine. But there’s a clarity in the other tracks that I love, and they seem to hold up better in my opinion.


What do they do, though? I mean, I get it, it's the glib, suave "over-produced" (but not, obvs), studio session vs the raw single deck tape recorder in the hotel room (you get the cliché), and all the hipsters wanna jump on the NY-tracks because they're not pretentious... They are the real thing, man. Not of that Hollywood stuff, vintage Dylan.
But I can't really decipher any deeper meaning to the tunes from the NY-tracks (maybe it's false memory syndrome? People heard the NY-tapes and thought they were hearing the mystical tracks Bob performed for some friends around this one time).

But I'll admit defeat and chalk it up to higher knowledge...


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 20:33 GMT 
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McG wrote:
Yep that one


Envious plus one:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SP0FL8DgA


Always knew you had good taste, Ben...!


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Fri March 2nd, 2018, 20:34 GMT 

Joined: Wed May 31st, 2017, 00:56 GMT
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^ its all a matter of preference, really. Anyone telling you that the NY cuts are the real deal and that the finished album is lacking are just being pretentious and rude. I have no problem with people liking them more, but it’s not like they have the answer to what’s right and wrong in Dylan’s career, especially at that point in time. You could make a case for the NY cuts being just as good though, specifically the ones on the final record.

Shelter from the Storm, the final album version, is leagues better than some of the other cuts from that time. There’s more nuance in the performance, compare it to the one from the Jerry Maguire soundtrack if you’d like. That version, which I still love, is a little less tight. It almost sounds like it could’ve fit on Planet Waves (not an insult). But his decision to use the album version really helped the album, I think.

Simple Twist of Fate, the one he kept, works perfectly as a follow up song to Tangled Up in Blue. Two sides of the same coin, and they play off each other so well. Those cuts have a certain kind of magic that works well in the context of the final album, and they benedit greatly from the faster, vibrant Minneapolis cuts.

You could like what you like, but I’m on your side when it comes to loving the album as it is, or more specifically the Minneapolis takes. It’s crazy when people criticize one take from another, it’s like comparing one gold bar to another. I just happen to think that the mixed sessions on that album adds up to a better haul. But, really, the share is equal no matter how you mix the tracks.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 10:23 GMT 

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An album is an entity. BOTT is a great album. I think it benefits hugely from the mixture of the NY and Minneapolis sounds. Comparing individual tracks such as Tangled up in Blue or You're A Big girl Now or Idiot Wind is legitimate but beside the point. Arguing about how good the Minneapolis band was is beside the point.

Of course Blood on the Tapes was not the final version of BOTT mk1 but listening to the whole of that suggests to me that the New York version would have been a hard slog aurally. The artistic decision was vindicated by history--- unlike 1981 and 1983 and arguably 1964.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 11:37 GMT 
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NY all over! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 12:45 GMT 

Joined: Tue January 6th, 2015, 15:03 GMT
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I very much enjoy the New York sessions, but the released album remains definitive for me. I wouldn't change a thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 17:31 GMT 
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The NY take of "Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts" is a train-wreck compared to the sublime, divine, superb etc, take on the album. Imagine a world without "Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts"... *shudders*


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 17:33 GMT 
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Quote:
Imagine a world without "Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts"... *shudders*


Here's my remark of the day. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:06 GMT 
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There’s a NY ‘outtake of the outtake’ that’s the best but still wearing after a while


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:15 GMT 
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effort wrote:
There’s a NY ‘outtake of the outtake’ that’s the best but still wearing after a while


There's a what of a what? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:20 GMT 
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There were two NY Jack of hearts circulating, the outtake and another.
Trying to find it now.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:22 GMT 
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effort wrote:
There were two NY Jack of hearts circulating, the outtake and another.
Trying to find it now.


Whaat? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:33 GMT 
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Can’t find it now on YouTube (where it used to be) but check your Heylin, searching for gem etc for verification


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:38 GMT 
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effort wrote:
Can’t find it now on YouTube (where it used to be) but check your Heylin, searching for gem etc for verification


Searchingforagem sayz: "R-0116 Lily, Rosemary & The Jack Of Hearts - unreleased take with extra verse". But where was it released? Is it bootlegged? (Searchingforagem, like a lot of Dylan fan-sites is not user friendly).


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 18:44 GMT 
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That’s the one! Bootlegged and YouTubed for sure.

I’ll be searching


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 19:02 GMT 
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The extra verse:
‘Lily's arms were locked around the man that she dearly loved to touch,
She forgot all about the man she couldn't stand who hounded her so much.
"I've missed you so," she said to him, and he felt she was sincere,
But just beyond the door he felt jealousy and fear.
Just another night in the life of the Jack of Hearts.’

Think Paul Williams commented on this, too.

I remember the rhythm/strumming was better, as well


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 19:04 GMT 
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effort wrote:
The extra verse:
‘Lily's arms were locked around the man that she dearly loved to touch,
She forgot all about the man she couldn't stand who hounded her so much.
"I've missed you so," she said to him, and he felt she was sincere,
But just beyond the door he felt jealousy and fear.
Just another night in the life of the Jack of Hearts.’

Think Paul Williams commented on this, too.

I remember the rhythm/strumming was better, as well


Do you have it?


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 19:09 GMT 
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I wish, used to have it on some long lost cd boot BUT it was around on YouTube.

It’ll reappear.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood On The Tracks
PostPosted: Sun March 4th, 2018, 19:20 GMT 
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Ah, it’s on the most common of boots, at 33:32
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ERzUPtc8W_c

Listening now, this is my Lily!


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