Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Fri August 17th, 2018, 09:06 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun June 29th, 2014, 13:20 GMT 

Joined: Sun July 8th, 2007, 01:52 GMT
Posts: 41
On lately I've been listening to J.J. Cale and suddenly his whispering style of singing reminded me of Dylans phrasing on such songs as "Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum" or "Po' Boy" from "Love and Theft". What do you think? Am I stating the obvious? Or is this a random comparison? I'm really not sure, but maybe there is a connection in this bleak and almost laconic style of singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun June 29th, 2014, 14:23 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat June 1st, 2013, 08:42 GMT
Posts: 5904
Location: on a rail leading West
Hmmm, would like to explore this, I've been meaning to grow my Cale collection. The only link I've come across so far is that his Troubadour album caught my attention by its title and I was primed and ready for it because of my Dylan/troubadour habit. Similarly, I now collect the Llama children's book series impulsively.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon June 30th, 2014, 10:30 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun February 13th, 2011, 17:43 GMT
Posts: 138
Location: Behind that bottle
Can't help feeling that, in a word, "No".

JJ Cale has always 'sung' like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan, and his LP's from
the 70's are practically part of my DNA, but in the end he has to sing like that because
he couldn't do it any other way. Luckily it works and fits in perfectly with his deceptively
simple, low-key style. A simple style, incidentally, which is mysterious in the extreme,
because the best tracks apparently offer very little and yet you never, ever get bored of
them - how did he do that ?

On the other hand:-
In the case of our man Bob, the style on Love & Theft is in effect simply the logical outcome
of his musical progress - his increasingly worn vocal cords and his being steeped in, among
other things, a variety of musical traditions. I don't see there's any harm in suggesting that
the great man forgot more than JJ ever knew about singing.

If there's anybody who plagiarized, sorry I mean was influenced by, ole J.J. then it's Clapton,
who had a fair amount of commercial success pretending (unsuccessfully) to be as cool as him.

And since we're here, one of my favourite tracks from the original 'slow hand'....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB7_Jw2HlRs


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon June 30th, 2014, 22:58 GMT 

Joined: Sun July 8th, 2007, 01:52 GMT
Posts: 41
Thanks for your detailed response, Slap. I thought that too: Theres a quasi "natural" limitation on Cale's side and Dylan's singing voice that has always changed. Nevertheless, they're both stylists. But you're right that Clapton is more directly influenced. So thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue July 1st, 2014, 06:43 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun February 13th, 2011, 17:43 GMT
Posts: 138
Location: Behind that bottle
Well it was just my ha'penny worth... happy listening, J.J. made a lot of great records :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed July 2nd, 2014, 10:22 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat February 28th, 2009, 13:40 GMT
Posts: 785
I sense what you mean: it´s about a limited vocal range (original or aquired) and how to cope with it. But still there´s a big difference between the two approaches and a lot of it has to do with the way they made / make their records.

A JJ Cale record is usually a multi layered, heavily overdubbed affair. A lot of his tracks are him on all instruments (incl. those cheap early drum machines) which means he could pitch his vocals real low. Often they´re nothing more than a melodical whisper. (In german we have the word "Flüsterbariton" for this kind of singing.) On the other hand a Bob Dylan record is basically recorded live, with all players in one room playin at full throttle which means that Bob has to use much more voice even on delicate tracks.

But still I like the idea of mentioning the late great JJ and Bob in one breath. JJ´s always been one of my heroes (there sure were teardrops in my tequila when I heard about his death), and he was the only musician besides Bob who ever made me, who´s middle name is "Fear of Fyling", to enter an aeroplane in order to see one of his shows. But if they really have anything in common then it´s probaly their maverick stance towards all kind of expectations. (And yes, I still think it could have been a good idea to invite him over to the Oh Mercy sessions. He could have added a few niche touches to songs like "What Was It" or "Long Black Coat")


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed July 2nd, 2014, 14:06 GMT 

Joined: Sun July 8th, 2007, 01:52 GMT
Posts: 41
Hanns, thanks for your thoughts. What you write about the recording processes is interesting and further proof that my comparison is a bit far fetched. But with the question about how to deal with a limited vocal range you hit spot on what I meant. And thirdly, and most important, we all now know the word "Flüsterbariton" :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 27th, 2014, 11:40 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 2nd, 2011, 18:27 GMT
Posts: 10336
Location: Joshua Tree Inn, Room 8
This is a very interesting article from the NY Times this morning about J.J. Cale: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/arts/ ... paper&_r=0

Clapton and Dylan weren't the only ones who might've been influenced by him: “Of all the players I ever heard, it’s got to be Hendrix and J. J. Cale who are the best electric guitar players,” Neil Young once said. He later wrote in his 2013 autobiography, “Waging Heavy Peace”: “J. J.’s guitar playing is a huge influence on me. His touch is unspeakable. I am stunned by it.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri January 19th, 2018, 22:39 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 19th, 2017, 14:39 GMT
Posts: 1
When I first heard this song, upon the intro, my mind literally did a double take. "J.J. Cale !", it exclaimed. Aside from a reference in the book, Bob Dylan- All The Songs, that J.J Cale actually did play guitar on this before any overdubs, I haven't been able to confirm one way or the other. In this case specifically, Dylan's vocal delivery strongly echoes that of J.J Cale's. Any insight would be appreciated.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu January 25th, 2018, 15:51 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon June 11th, 2012, 11:12 GMT
Posts: 161
I don't hear this Cale influence too much.
On the other hand, I feel some Leon Redbone influences in Dylan's delivery circa L&T/MT.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu January 25th, 2018, 20:02 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun January 22nd, 2017, 21:15 GMT
Posts: 1288
Location: on a bridge
'Ain't Talkin' off Modern Times is very JJ Cale, even the guitar work.

moab


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: HopE, joe h


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group