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Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.
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Author:  goodnitesteve [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 00:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

This is mostly about Good As I Been To You on. He wrote in Chronicles that he has this number system that Lonnie Johnson taught him. Now, no one can figure out if it's real or if Bob was just putting us on, but does anyone have any clue to what he seems to be doing?

For instance I know during Do Re Mi, he emphasizes the C chord by playing a power C chord high up on the fret (8th fret? sort of what he does in that riff on Delia (from world gone wrong)). Which is just a variant of the C chord, without the barre.

Anyone have any other things they have noticed?

Author:  Long Johnny [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 00:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

The Chronicles thing makes sense if you know fractal geometry & the I Ching.

Author:  goodnitesteve [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 00:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Long Johnny wrote:
The Chronicles thing makes sense if you know fractal geometry & the I Ching.


Any recommending reading material to understand this?

Author:  jonno_osmond [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 02:22 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

I always thought the Lonnie Johnson number system was more about his lead guitar playing, but wasn't it apparently in 1987 that he rediscovered the number system, coz I don't think Bob started playing lead until about 1993 from memory, its all very confusing and might just be Bob being Bob and bending the truth a little. His electric guitar playing in 1987/88 was no more prominent or important than it was previously and on the acoustic numbers in that time Bob usually (always?) just strummed the rhythm with GE Smith playing the lead parts.

Author:  smoke [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 02:31 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

goodnitesteve wrote:
Long Johnny wrote:
The Chronicles thing makes sense if you know fractal geometry & the I Ching.


Any recommending reading material to understand this?



Here's the goods, there are a lot of funny things in Chronicles, but this is surely the funniest:

scottw wrote:
There is some leg pulling going on in that section of the book. In my essay that appears in the Summer 2010 issue of New Haven Review (at http://newhavenreview.com/wp-content/up ... armuth.pdf) I explore how Dylan's explanation of his music theory system in Chronicles: Volume One is, in part, constructed out of elements from Robert Greene's 1998 bestseller The 48 Laws of Power, specifically from Law 27, which is "Play On People's Need To Believe To Create A Cult Like Following." It has the subheading "The Science of Charlatanism, Or How To Create A Cult In Five Easy Steps."

Chronicles: Volume One, p. 159:
"Passion and enthusiasm, which sometimes can be enough to sway a crowd, aren't even necessary. You can manufacture faith out of nothing and there are an infinite number of patterns and lines that connect from key to key - all deceptively simple. You gain power with the least amount of effort, trust that the listeners make their own connections, and it's very seldom they don't. Miscalculations can also cause no serious harm"

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 216:
"Passion and enthusiasm swept through the crowd like a contagion..."

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 216:
"Always in a rush to believe in something, we will manufacture saints and faiths out of nothing."

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 216:
"In searching, as you must, for the methods that will gain you the most power for the least effort, you will find the creation of a cultlike following one of the most effective."

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 217:
"This combination will stimulate all kinds of hazy dreams in your listeners, who will make their own connections and see what they want to see."

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 214:
"It is often wiser to use such dupes in more innocent endeavors, where mistakes or miscalculations will cause no serious harm."
==
Chronicles: Volume One, p. 155:
"There weren't any alchemic shortcuts — critics could dismiss me easily, too, so I wouldn't be able to depend on them to tell my tale."

The 48 Laws of Power, p. 216:
"The charlatans had begun by peddling health elixirs and alchemic shortcuts to wealth."
==
Chronicles: Volume One, p. 157:
"It has always been clear and readable but did not reflect my psyche in any way."

The 48 Laws of Power, page 217:
"To create a cult you must first attract attention. This you should do not through actions, which are too clear and readable, but through words, which are hazy and deceptive."

Dylan uses elements from Greene's book in other parts of Chronicles: Volume One as well. This strategy of using material from other sources, very often with a second layer of meaning being added, is employed hundreds of times throughout the book. Chronicles: Volume One is a grand collage and this aspect of Dylan's writing has not been properly appreciated.

Author:  procatcher31 [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 03:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

He's just being cryptic (apparently intentionally, as smoke pointed out). He's got a certain style, and it's one I really admire (on Good As I Been To You and World Gone Wrong, at least).

Author:  chinesesuit [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 03:30 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

His guitar work on GAIBTY and WGW was really good, are we sure it's him?

Author:  slimtimslide [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 03:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Interestingly, I guess, he also mentions this concept (Lonnie Johnsons 3 note thing) in an interview with Mikal Gilmore in Rolling Stone from Dec 22nd 2001 so the joke must have been on his mind for a while.... hexagram No 9 I suspect.

Author:  Long Johnny [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 04:27 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Dylan was always a good and idiosyncratic solo acoustic player; his playing on his first record and most of the better boots from the early 60s in particular, his playing is very good. To call his lead playing "pathetic" on the other hand would be a cruel insult to pathetic lead guitarists everywhere.

Author:  Warren Peace [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 04:28 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Dylan's acoustic work probably peaked in the early 90's. In the years before GAIBTY/WGW, he delivered some great solo (and semi-also) performances.

Author:  PSB [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 04:30 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Here's what Eyolf wrote about the Lonnnie Johnson thing. Also on the site you'll find transcriptions of Good As I Been To You and all the other albums.

http://dylanchords.info/professors/tt/ttch6.html

Author:  oldmanemu [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 07:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

He was ok when I saw him last week.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 09:18 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

chinesesuit wrote:
His guitar work on GAIBTY and WGW was really good, are we sure it's him?


Yes. There were no other musicians at those sessions. We'd have heard about it by now if there'd been any. Btw, what became of the book that the engineer or whoever was going to write about those sessions?

Author:  smoke [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 10:13 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

^someone reminded him he'd signed as non-disclosure contract, from what I understand.

(I read about it on the web)

Author:  smoke [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 10:14 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

slimtimslide wrote:
Interestingly, I guess, he also mentions this concept (Lonnie Johnsons 3 note thing) in an interview with Mikal Gilmore in Rolling Stone from Dec 22nd 2001 so the joke must have been on his mind for a while.... hexagram No 9 I suspect.



Dylan picking something up from Lonnie Johnson and the joke are not mutually exclusive, imo.

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 10:48 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

smoke wrote:
^someone reminded him he'd signed as non-disclosure contract, from what I understand.

(I read about it on the web)


Sh*t. I mean, what can there be that nobody can know? :roll:

Author:  smoke [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 11:48 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

He is unknowable. His lawyers will ensure it, if necessary 8)

Author:  Warren Peace [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 11:52 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

smoke wrote:
^someone reminded him he'd signed as non-disclosure contract, from what I understand.

(I read about it on the web)


Perhaps the manuscript could "leak" onto the internet?

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 11:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Thanks for the info, smoke. Now that would have been a book I'd have liked to read. Re. studio work with Bob, not even Lanois' bio told much, despite having two chapters on Bob....

Author:  Johanna Parker [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 12:01 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Warren Peace wrote:
smoke wrote:
^someone reminded him he'd signed as non-disclosure contract, from what I understand.

(I read about it on the web)


Perhaps the manuscript could "leak" onto the internet?


That's an idea....

Author:  Troubadour64 [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 12:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

smoke wrote:
slimtimslide wrote:
Interestingly, I guess, he also mentions this concept (Lonnie Johnsons 3 note thing) in an interview with Mikal Gilmore in Rolling Stone from Dec 22nd 2001 so the joke must have been on his mind for a while.... hexagram No 9 I suspect.



Dylan picking something up from Lonnie Johnson and the joke are not mutually exclusive, imo.



Someone asked him once which keys he preferred to play in. He said he like the black keys. The man is not much of a process talker unfortunately.

here's a great number book for the the person who asked more about fractal geometry. Numbers and music have powerful relationships. I wouldn't be surprised if dylan knew a lot about them. One time I don't think he was joking was when he answered mathematician in response to what he'd do if he weren't a songwriter. But i also wouldn't be surprised if he claimed to know alot about them.

http://ebookee.org/The-Golden-Ratio-The ... 01308.html

Author:  Warren Peace [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 14:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Johanna Parker wrote:
Warren Peace wrote:
Perhaps the manuscript could "leak" onto the internet?


That's an idea....


Yeah, why not? It's not like they're going to take him to court to prove that it wasn't stolen from him, or leaked by some third party or whatever. Better yet, become the "anonymous source" to another writer and let him release the information. There are a lot of ways around it.

Author:  Long Johnny [ Tue April 26th, 2011, 18:18 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

Johanna Parker wrote:
smoke wrote:
^someone reminded him he'd signed as non-disclosure contract, from what I understand.

(I read about it on the web)


Sh*t. I mean, what can there be that nobody can know? :roll:


For both records, Dylan wore nothing but a black lace bra and panties during the recording. I know, it sounds far fetched, but it's what (1) gives it that special little mystery and (2) is what's missing from the NET.

Author:  My Echo, My Shadow And Me [ Mon May 16th, 2011, 12:42 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

In a 2005 interview Freddy Koella linked Dylan's piano playing to Thelonious Monk (Vintage Guitar magazine, December 2005 issue). In his lead guitar playing Dylan applies the same technique.

Thelonious Monk, live 1966 (piano solo starts at 3:08): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhP1RgbrrY
Dylan does the same thing. The rubato playing, the playing "around" the actual melody or the hinting at the melody and also the use of notes that are slightly sharp or flat. Jazz "purists" accused (and accuse) Monk of not being able to play the piano. The fact of the matter is that Monk is one of the few true innovators and geniuses in modern music.

Author:  goodnitesteve [ Mon May 16th, 2011, 14:55 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Dylan's recent way of guitar playing.

My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
In a 2005 interview Freddy Koella linked Dylan's piano playing to Thelonious Monk (Vintage Guitar magazine, December 2005 issue). In his lead guitar playing Dylan applies the same technique.

Thelonious Monk, live 1966 (piano solo starts at 3:08): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhP1RgbrrY
Dylan does the same thing. The rubato playing, the playing "around" the actual melody or the hinting at the melody and also the use of notes that are slightly sharp or flat. Jazz "purists" accused (and accuse) Monk of not being able to play the piano. The fact of the matter is that Monk is one of the few true innovators and geniuses in modern music.


Thanks for this. That link actually sounds like Dylan's Living the Blues. This actually helps me more with the piano because it's a style that is very easy for me to relate to as I play in a similar way (messing around with the melody).

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