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Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace
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Author:  marker [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 21:09 GMT ]
Post subject:  Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

'You can't be for peace and be global. It's just like that song 'Man Of Peace'. None of this matters, if you believe in another world. But if you believe in this world...you'll go mad, cuz you won't see the end of it.'
Dylan 1984

Look out your window, baby, there’s a scene you’d like to catch
The band is playing “Dixie,” a man got his hand outstretched
Could be the Führer
Could be the local priest
You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung
Good intentions can be evil
Both hands can be full of grease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

Well, first he’s in the background, then he’s in the front
Both eyes are looking like they’re on a rabbit hunt
Nobody can see through him
No, not even the Chief of Police
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

Well, he catch you when you’re hoping for a glimpse of the sun
Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton
He could be standing next to you
The person that you’d notice least
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull
He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull
I can smell something cooking
I can tell there’s going to be a feast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

He’s a great humanitarian, he’s a great philanthropist
He knows just where to touch you, honey, and how you like to be kissed
He’ll put both his arms around you
You can feel the tender touch of the beast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl
Trees that’ve stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall
Wanna get married? Do it now
Tomorrow all activity will cease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

Somewhere Mama’s weeping for her blue-eyed boy
She’s holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he’s following a star
The same one them three men followed from the East
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

A greatly under-rated song on a greatly maligned album. Dylan's Apocalyptic vision of a world of wolves in sheep's clothing is nothing short of terrifying and this song is one of the best on that album IMO. It's also a song that has only become more prescient and seeable as our global experiences accumulate...but also quite timeless...

Live, I've not heard all that much save for a couple from 87 which were fun but unimpressive...
In fact, the reason I selected this song today was due to a concert I just listened to for the first time from Ithaca NY. Man Of Peace certainly steals the show in this very strong concert.

Listen to this powerhouse!
Ithaca NY
November 15 1999
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ir5c23

And here's video of the same:
http://www.twitvid.com/IPEXE

Any thoughts on Man Of Peace?? Who here hates the song?

Author:  smoke [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 21:30 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

marker wrote:
'to a concert I just listened to for the first time from Ithaca NY



You're hearing this concert for the first time? Oh, I envy you! I'll envy you even more as you hear it for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th times...

I can't think of a live version off the top of my head that I'm really wild about. He doesn't sing it often and there are lots of words to mess up and the guitar playing tends to go on and on and on as it so often does when they do a blues-inflected tune.

I like the song, it's a powerful sentiment put over well, and lines like "Good intentions can be evil" certainly ring after the song is over, but the mysterious last verse:

Somewhere Mama’s weeping for her blue-eyed boy
She’s holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he’s following a star
The same one them three men followed from the East
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace


sometimes leaves me feeling it was more Dylan being intentionally mysterious than Dylan saying something cosmic or deep or even heartfelt. Other times it works alright, I suppose.

Author:  airoff [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 21:38 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

I don't "hate" any of Dylan's songs (save perhaps, "If Dogs Run Free"), but I wouldn't count this as among my favorites or anything.

Author:  The Mighty Monkey Of Mim [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 21:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

"Now we've had a lot of previews of what the Antichrist could be like. We had that Jim Jones, he's like a preview. We had Adolf Hitler, a preview. Anyway, the Antichrist is gonna be a little bit different than that. He's gonna bring peace to the world for a certain length of time..." --Bob Dylan at Massey Hall, 1980-04-20

Author:  Untrodden Path [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 21:51 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

A song I really like... just because...

Some interesting images, ideas, and so forth and seems to always be played well live. Just wish it would be played more frequently.

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Mon January 24th, 2011, 22:35 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

I like it--it reminds me of my Sunday School years when they did a helluva job scaring me sh*tless. (And that Ithaca version is my favorite live version too)

"Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light"--2 Corinthians 11:14

A whole level of paranoia for a little 10 year old. My neighbor could be evil. My best friend. My MOM! It's Orwell and Hitchcock--a Shadow of a Doubt was cast. Oh, those were the days.

Author:  procatcher31 [ Tue January 25th, 2011, 00:56 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

I kind of dig the song. It tends to get a bit monotonous after a while, since there's like 3 or 4 instrumental breaks on the studio recording. But the lyrics are pretty good, and true. Positive feelings about it on the whole.

Author:  iamhere [ Tue January 25th, 2011, 01:33 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

i think the quotes used expresses how meaningful and important this song is. im suprised he doesnt sing it more often.

The last line about following a star? does that mean like a falling star as in a fallen angel, a sin? A little too obvious? seems about right though. a little boy will grow up and follow the wrong things because it's "hip" My way of looking at it. maybe i should brush up on a few things.

Author:  Lone Pilgrim [ Tue January 25th, 2011, 17:19 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Not the best recorded song on the planet, but definitely a strong number - somewhat underrated because of the metaphysical content, i.e., like Gillian Welch's 'The Devil had a Hold on Me' and a number of other songs I could mention, it works best if you actually believe in Satan. But even on a soggier, purely metaphorical level, it still works. (In truth, most of Infidel's songs are stronger than the haters would have you believe. Ah well).

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Tue January 25th, 2011, 19:37 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Lone Pilgrim wrote:
Not the best recorded song on the planet, but definitely a strong number - somewhat underrated because of the metaphysical content, i.e., like Gillian Welch's 'The Devil had a Hold on Me' and a number of other songs I could mention, it works best if you actually believe in Satan. But even on a soggier, purely metaphorical level, it still works. (In truth, most of Infidel's songs are stronger than the haters would have you believe. Ah well).


^
I think the Infidels numbers are very strong. Extraordinarily so when you add in all of the outtakes. And I would guess many would agree. I would suspect most haters hate the way these songs sound on the released record. (for me, it is especially the drums :evil: )

Author:  Mez [ Wed January 26th, 2011, 00:14 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

The MEZ doesn't often listen to this one, havn't for ages really, but thanks for the postings; enjoyed the rendition! Maybe I'll give the recorded studio track a spin tonight! Yes I think I will. MEZ

Author:  clifford gage [ Wed January 26th, 2011, 17:24 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

An interesting connection between Man of Peace and Moonlight

I'm preaching peace and harmony,
The blessings of tranquility
But I know when the time is right to strike

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Wed January 26th, 2011, 17:30 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

^
Indeed. Walk softly but carry a big stick.

Author:  Sphere [ Thu January 27th, 2011, 03:27 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Try Austin Music Hall 10/26/96 with guest Charlie Sexton

Author:  Long Johnny [ Thu January 27th, 2011, 04:57 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Horrible and stupid song. Embarrassingly awful.

The basic message is that if anyone helps end wars and brings any sort of peace to troubled areas of the globe, oooooo! It's probably the DEVIL!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Written when he was still in that cult.

Author:  iamhere [ Thu January 27th, 2011, 05:21 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

i find this song equal to "Got to Serve somebody." I hate that song because the lyrics are plain and simple although neat music. For some reason even though it is on the same rack as "got to sertve somebody" i like this one. Never bothered me. Simple point and everything. A good piece of writting starts with an action and ends suggestivly. This doesnt do it but the imegry is there and the force of a voice is blowing behind the language. I agree with the theme, i love the gospel stuff but i think dylan could do a better job with it now with some touch ups to lyrics.
Satan does come as a man of peace, cant argue with that.

How can you hate a line like "He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull" anyways.

Author:  Long Johnny [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 15:36 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

"Serve Somebody" doesn't even have to be read as a "religious" song to work, it's pretty terrific, recorded exceptionally well and executed perfectly on the album version. "Man of Peace" is totally mired in the most ugly and virulent kind of "last days" Christianity. The "message" of "Serve Somebody" is simple - there's no neutral ground. Neutrality is not simply supporting the way things are. Every position is either for or against the status quo. The message of "Man of Peace" is what? That only leaders who press for war and conflict can be trusted???? Shit song of a crap album.

Author:  Warren Peace [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 15:43 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Long Johnny wrote:
"Serve Somebody" doesn't even have to be read as a "religious" song to work,


Wait, what? The point of the song is that you either worship God or are in service to the Devil. It's almost literally black and white. Sure, you can stretch things out to mean "the devils on our own lives" or whatever, but to Dylan, it's THE Devil and THE Lord.

Author:  procatcher31 [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 15:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Long Johnny wrote:
The message of "Man of Peace" is what?

That peaceful people, who appear to be trustworthy, can often turn around and stab you in the back. They can seem appealing in every way, but are just trying to get above you.

Author:  Lone Pilgrim [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 16:29 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

procatcher31 wrote:
Long Johnny wrote:
The message of "Man of Peace" is what?

That peaceful people, who appear to be trustworthy, can often turn around and stab you in the back. They can seem appealing in every way, but are just trying to get above you.


Yeah, I find it bizarre to claim that Man of Peace is noxiously religious while Serve Somebody transcends religion. While both songs work best if you buy into the religious content, I'd suggest that it's exactly the opposite. Serve Somebody presents a cut and dried absolute: serve the Devil or serve the Lord. Great song with a totally unambiguous, linear message. Man of Peace is fundamentally a song about deceit. If you take the 'devil' as a mere metaphor for evil, the song works as a blunt statement about the facts of life - those who claim to do good often bring the most catastrophic consequences (e.g., the leaders who brought you the atomic bomb in the name of your security and freedom, thus paving the way for the impending apocalypse the underlies the whole lyric). I see the beef with the production values but not with the song (or vocal) itself.

Author:  smoke [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 17:02 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

I had a post that didn't go through saying the same thing, but you guys said it better.

Author:  Untrodden Path [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 18:32 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

This photo was taken in New Orleans. I think it was during the '84 campaign which would be after the release of Infidels.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/C48820-9.jpg

Look out your window, baby, there’s a scene you’d like to catch
The band is playing “Dixie,” a man got his hand outstretched
Could be the Führer
Could be the local priest
You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung
Good intentions can be evil
Both hands can be full of grease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace


Reagan fits this image for me. He was, after all, the great communicator who sold the country a bill of goods with disastrous consequences. However, the whole thing falls apart after these two verses. Seriously, did anyone ever refer to Reagan as a great humanitarian or great philanthropist?

For 20 centuries of Western/Christian history, Satan was portrayed using frightening imagery to scare the faithful and unfaithful alike. Dylan's portaryal of the tempter through an apocalyptic view reveals the seducer in friendlier terms. He's the person who catches you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton... He could be standing next to you...The person that you’d notice least... perhaps there's no outstanding quality to draw your attention. But the person standing next to you?

Sounds almost paranoid...

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 19:03 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Shakespeare played this theme better with Iago. But this song's ok.

Author:  telltale [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 19:11 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Untrodden Path wrote:
This photo was taken in New Orleans. I think it was during the '84 campaign which would be after the release of Infidels.
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/C48820-9.jpg

Look out your window, baby, there’s a scene you’d like to catch
The band is playing “Dixie,” a man got his hand outstretched
Could be the Führer
Could be the local priest
You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung
Good intentions can be evil
Both hands can be full of grease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace


Reagan fits this image for me. He was, after all, the great communicator who sold the country a bill of goods with disastrous consequences. However, the whole thing falls apart after these two verses. Seriously, did anyone ever refer to Reagan as a great humanitarian or great philanthropist?

For 20 centuries of Western/Christian history, Satan was portrayed using frightening imagery to scare the faithful and unfaithful alike. Dylan's portaryal of the tempter through an apocalyptic view reveals the seducer in friendlier terms. He's the person who catches you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton... He could be standing next to you...The person that you’d notice least... perhaps there's no outstanding quality to draw your attention. But the person standing next to you?

Sounds almost paranoid...



Ah, Reagan and Infidels .... http://expectingrain.com/discussions/vi ... =6&t=38547

Author:  harmonica albert [ Fri January 28th, 2011, 19:45 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: Track Talk 240 Man Of Peace

Satan as seducer is his first and most important iteration in Judeo-Christian myth, first as the serpent offering sweet fruits of knowledge to Eve. In Satan's only New Testament appearance, he brings Jesus to the mountaintop and offers him all the world if he would just renounce God. But of course, other portaits emphasize the less pleasant attributes of the Prince of Darkness and his legions. Nevertheless, pleasures of the flesh, of the senses, of the material world, remain suspect among true believers. So I don't find Dylan's portrait at all remarkable, just predictable and a bit pretentious--sometimes Satan comes as a millionaire pop star celebrity shilling his latest neurotic obsession, too.

Man of Peace dutifully follows the template of far too many Dylan songs, and I find it tedious as a result. Each verse says the same thing over blues chords, leading up to the refrain line that gets less interesting and more annoying with each appearance. Fundamentalist pedantry was far too easy a fit for Dylan, and it's no compliment to his artistic legacy that he produced such abominations during the peak of his technical power as a singer. These songs are the black holes of Dylan's universe, sucking like nothing else, permitting no light to escape, lacking any kind of creativity or nuance beyond the verbal dexterity that Dylan had managed to turn into a mannerism on the path to self-parody.

I do agree with UP's observation about Reagan, but I don't think Reagan was at all conscious of his satanic nature. Few people are.

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