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PostPosted: Fri August 3rd, 2018, 05:08 GMT 

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Whenever Joan Baez talks about Dylan and their time together in the sixties she expresses regret that he did not take to the barricades with her. She always acts surprised that someone who wrote all those songs could avoid attending the various marches and protests. In one interview she remarks 'People ask if he is coming - he never comes'. It took her a long time to understand that while Dylan is against war, he is mainly against those who lead others into it, rather than those who bear arms. The so called Masters of War.

I have read a couple of letters by servicemen who received replies from Dylan to letters they wrote. Leonard Cohen described Dylan as a tough little guy who stands up for what he believes. Characters like Lenny Bruce, Joey Gallo, George Jackson and Rubin Carter are not obvious heroes but Dylan seems attracted to people who have to fight for their rights, or struggle to survive in difficult circumstances. He is also attracted to songs about women who literally stand by their man, like the Female Rambling Sailor, 'Jackaroe' or 'Mary and the Gallant Soldier'.

Like his early hero Woody Guthrie Dylan mostly sides with the underdog. His own fame and fortune must challenge those feelings. Does he have to guard against becoming, to some degree like the people he loathes, or can he remain detached enough to let his art flourish. How hard is it to protest, for the want of a better word, when your minted. I reckon he is pretty well grounded but it would be easy to forget where and how the whole story started.


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PostPosted: Fri August 3rd, 2018, 14:50 GMT 
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I saw Dylan/Wille Nelson in Oklahoma and I was eavesdropping on this older couple before the shows started and they were who were talking about Bob like he was Abbie Hoffman.

Yes, some people certainly have the wrong idea.


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PostPosted: Fri August 3rd, 2018, 15:58 GMT 

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As fans, it's easy for us to develop ideas about who Bob is, what he's about and what he should or shouldn't be doing, and then be disappointed when he doesn't fit into the box we've created for him. The truth is, we don't know him.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lsdEdZwBL5A


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 08:37 GMT 

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We must not forget that Bob Dylan once complained about the strictness of the gun laws in New York State as they restained him from shooting hippies.


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 09:05 GMT 
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Bob also claimed in Chronicles that his favourite ever politician was Vietnam-era hawk Bob Goldwater.


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 20:43 GMT 

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I think that he sympathizes with Trump a lot.


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 22:47 GMT 

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people think they know
but they’re all wrong


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 23:26 GMT 
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juststepintothearena wrote:
people think they know
but they’re all wrong


including him, based on one of his famous quotes ;)


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PostPosted: Sat August 4th, 2018, 23:54 GMT 
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Quote:
Some people have the wrong idea about Robert

I think he likes it that way.


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PostPosted: Mon August 6th, 2018, 15:40 GMT 
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Huck27 wrote:
Like his early hero Woody Guthrie Dylan mostly sides with the underdog. His own fame and fortune must challenge those feelings. Does he have to guard against becoming, to some degree like the people he loathes, or can he remain detached enough to let his art flourish. How hard is it to protest, for the want of a better word, when your minted. I reckon he is pretty well grounded but it would be easy to forget where and how the whole story started.


I always wondered if Bob ever directly adressed this fear (of becoming "the man" or whatever) which surely must be on his mind... Then again, are his songs ever really autobiographical in any way (apart from "all fiction being autobiographical"?)


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PostPosted: Mon August 6th, 2018, 18:19 GMT 
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HillaryForPrison wrote:
I think that he sympathizes with Trump a lot.


Ha!
Trolls arise...


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 06:39 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
We must not forget that Bob Dylan once complained about the strictness of the gun laws in New York State as they restained him from shooting hippies.


I keep saying it. Bob is not a hippie. Never was. Isle of Wight? Hello.

I don't think he even likes hippies, but that's imo.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 20:37 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
Mickvet wrote:
We must not forget that Bob Dylan once complained about the strictness of the gun laws in New York State as they restained him from shooting hippies.


I keep saying it. Bob is not a hippie. Never was. Isle of Wight? Hello.

I don't think he even likes hippies, but that's imo.



It's kind of his opinion too. He said some unflattering things about hippies in Chronicles. Basically I think (my opinion) he really just doesn't like labels.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 22:23 GMT 
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Labels.... Or.... Lazy potheads who claim they changed the world when it's really their parents who sacrificed greatly to make this world a better place. Hmm. Let's picture this. Contrast some hippie walking down the street waving a sign vs the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan.

I rest my case.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 22:35 GMT 
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What’s with the Hippie slamming?


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 22:54 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
Labels.... Or.... Lazy potheads who claim they changed the world when it's really their parents who sacrificed greatly to make this world a better place. Hmm. Let's picture this. Contrast some hippie walking down the street waving a sign vs the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan.

I rest my case.


Your case is moronic.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 22:54 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
What’s with the Hippie slamming?


I think I pretty much covered that. Do you not see the difference in my example? I'm not knocking lazy potheads, I'm saying they didn't change the world and thinking a protest is the equivalent of storming a beach or fighting in a foxhole is ludicrous.

Strangely enough dropping the bomb saved millions more American lives than any peace protest against the bomb. A lot less hippies would have been born if their fathers had invaded Japan.

I'm not a warmonger. I'm just not interested in 60's hippie hyperbole.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 23:23 GMT 
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Come you masters of war...


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 23:48 GMT 
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summerteeth wrote:
Come you masters of war...


Pity he didn't play that in his set at Woodstock, the hippies would have loved it. Oh... Uh...

Bob has written hundreds of songs that aren't about war. Huuuundreds. He's denied being a protest singer over and over and over. And over. Anyone who really believes Bob is a protest singer needs to drop their doobie and embrace reality.


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PostPosted: Tue August 7th, 2018, 23:57 GMT 

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reality has always had too many heads


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2018, 00:01 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
Still Go Barefoot wrote:
What’s with the Hippie slamming?


I think I pretty much covered that. Do you not see the difference in my example?

Im just trying to understand how it came to this.
You are agreeing pretty well with your own generalizations, it seems.
Throw all the “hippies” in one category and close the mind.
What is a hippy, anyways?

Sweetheart68 wrote:
I'm just not interested in 60's hippie hyperbole.

Oh that’s how it came to this.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2018, 02:15 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
summerteeth wrote:
Come you masters of war...


Pity he didn't play that in his set at Woodstock, the hippies would have loved it. Oh... Uh...

Bob has written hundreds of songs that aren't about war. Huuuundreds. He's denied being a protest singer over and over and over. And over. Anyone who really believes Bob is a protest singer needs to drop their doobie and embrace reality.


Reality, you say!
No one (and especially me) is claiming that Bob is a protest singer.
In fact, I am, unlike you, claiming nothing.

Everything you can say about Bob Dylan can and will be disproved by Bob Dylan. To claim that you know him and know what he stands for is ludicrous.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2018, 04:33 GMT 
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Anr Bjotk wrote:
Huck27 wrote:
Like his early hero Woody Guthrie Dylan mostly sides with the underdog. His own fame and fortune must challenge those feelings. Does he have to guard against becoming, to some degree like the people he loathes, or can he remain detached enough to let his art flourish. How hard is it to protest, for the want of a better word, when your minted. I reckon he is pretty well grounded but it would be easy to forget where and how the whole story started.


I always wondered if Bob ever directly adressed this fear (of becoming "the man" or whatever) which surely must be on his mind... Then again, are his songs ever really autobiographical in any way (apart from "all fiction being autobiographical"?)


I get some serious hints of it here:

[Verse 1]
I tell people you're just goin' through changes
And that you're acquanted both with night and day
That your money's good and you're just being courageous
On them burnin' bridges knowin' your feet are made of clay
Well I say you won't be destroyed by your inventions
That you brought it all under captivity
And that you really do have all the best intentions
But you're makin' a liar out of me

[Verse 2]
Well I say that you're just young and self-tormented
But that deep down you understand
The hopes and fears and dreams of the discontented
Who threaten now to overtake your promised land
Well I say you'd not sow discord among brothers
Nor drain a man of his integrity
But you'll remember the cries of orphans and their mothers
But you're makin' a liar out of me
But you're makin' a liar out of me

[Verse 3]
Well I say that, that ain't flesh and blood you're drinkin'
In the wounded empire of your fool's paradise
With a light above your head forever blinkin'
Turnin' virgins into merchandise
That you must have been beautiful when you were livin'
You remind me of some old-time used-to-be
I say you can be trusted with the power you been given
But you're makin' a liar out of me


[Verse 4]
So many things so hard to say as you stumble
To take refuge in your offices of shame
As the earth beneath my feet begins to rumble
And your young men die for nothin' not even fame
I say that someday you'll begin to trust us
And that your conscience not been slain by conformity
That you'll stand up unafraid to believe in justice
But you're makin' a liar out of me
You're makin' a liar out of me

[Verse 5]
Well I can hear the sound of distant thunder
From an open window at the end of every hall
Now that you're gone I got to wonder
If you ever were here at all
I say you never sacrificed my children
To some false god of infidelity
And that it's not the Tower of Babel that you're buildin'
But you're makin' a liar out of me
You're makin' a liar out of me
Now you're makin' a liar out of me


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2018, 06:46 GMT 
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summerteeth wrote:
Everything you can say about Bob Dylan can and will be disproved by Bob Dylan.


Bob is a man.

So much for your logic. Or claim, I should say. :P


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2018, 07:18 GMT 

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Bob disapproved of draft-dodgers, according to Baez. The weight of evidence is that he favoured the war in Vietnam. Masters of War is not an anti-war song: it is an admonishment of those who would pursue war primarily for their own personal profit or ideology-an echo of Eisenhower. With God On Our Side is not strictly against war, but rather against a certain presumption about it. It is notable that the Second World War is not definitively included in the criticism.

It is difficult not to despise hippies. The dawn of 'punk' music was a reaction to them and their excesses. The biological imperative is dealing with hippiedom now-few will mourn them.


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