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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:01 GMT 
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Still the overdubbed (Bobs voice) version! :cry:

and, they cut to other stars (Close ups of EC, NY, TP, GH) while Bob is singing that you cannot reconise that it is not the live recording (out of ysync) of the show. At the old VHS it was obvioulsy visible. The closeups don't fit to the whole thing. It looks very amateurish even worse than the VHS (They cut much compared to the orginal aired TV version), were most of Bobs interesting shots and closeups were already deleted. I won't buy that.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:10 GMT 
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It's a testament to how troubled Dylan was at the time that the released, overdubbed take is the GOOD one!


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:12 GMT 
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Maria wrote:
Still the overdubbed (Bobs voice) version! :cry:

and, they cut to other stars (Close ups of EC, NY, TP, GH) while Bob is singing that you cannot reconise that it is not the live recording (out of ysync) of the show. At the old VHS it was obvioulsy visible. The closeups don't fit to the whole thing. It looks very amateurish even worse than the VHS (They cut much compared to the orginal aired TV version), were most of Bobs interesting shots and closeups were already deleted. I won't buy that.


It's going to look different from everything you've seen before, unless you live in Japan. The master is in HD and it's from the Japanese Broadcast. They may have done some editing to disguise the overdubs, but it's going to look different regardless. The United States probably had first dibs on angles too, so it may look a little subpar due to camera placement.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:25 GMT 
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Warren Peace wrote:
It's a testament to how troubled Dylan was at the time that the released, overdubbed take is the GOOD one!


No its a fake and they should release the overdubbed version as Bonus. BTW i like the orginal much more and cannot listen to the fake version. Some Instrumentals and some passages have norhing to do with the orginal recording.


Last edited by Maria on Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:26 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:26 GMT 
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Ain't just no pleasin' some people.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:28 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Ain't just no pleasin' some people.


OH are you satisfied with a playback next shows? it's the same!


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:30 GMT 
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:roll:


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:46 GMT 
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I didn't even know there was an overdub.

I got this CD:

Image

Someone tell me if that's overdubbed or original?


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 08:58 GMT 
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DaniArrow wrote:
I didn't even know there was an overdub.

I got this CD:

Image

Someone tell me if that's overdubbed or original?


This is the FAKE!

There are many overdubbed things on the official release. (Mr.Tambourine Man TP and RMG are singing the harmonies out of tune on the released version they sound perfect and there many more!) For me it's not really a live album.

Here is the original, not really but at least Bobs part is orginal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyj55T6ZL8I


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 09:58 GMT 
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Maria wrote:
It looks very amateurish even worse than the VHS



It's very professional. Due to the fact that this (re-)release does not aim at you or me but it's meant for the mass market, they of course do every effort to make the thing sound "good" (whatever that means, bobwise).

Except us experts nobody will recognise any tampering with the audio (and the video, too, for my part). Why would anybody notice such a thing unknowing there was a re-recording and/or overdubs in the first place?

And if the close ups are meant to cover the lip-sync problem, who cares except, again, us? The whole thing now is just for making some money out of an "event", nothing more, nothing less.

But thank you for your observations. This was the last confirmation for me not to buy the item.
I can live with the original CD, the original VHS, the recording of the German TV broadcast (which misses Girl From The North Country but contains I Want You; sadly disturbed by the much talkactive Dylan "experts") and the CD-boot "Dylan Forever".

The latter contains Song To Woody and the "original" My Back Pages, if I recall things right.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 10:10 GMT 
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to be honest, apart from Lou Reed and Neil Young, it was a bit of a shit-fest.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 10:46 GMT 
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stephenoxford wrote:
to be honest, apart from Lou Reed and Neil Young, it was a bit of a shit-fest.


Clapton, Harrison, Petty, Vedder, Nellon and Havens were also not THAT bad but the rest???

Stevie Wonders "Blowin in the wind" makes you puke more than one night!


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 11:00 GMT 
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"When Stevie Wonder recorded 'Blowin' in the Wind'
I was playin' cards
I was drinkin' gin...
"


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 11:43 GMT 
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I love Dylan dearly, but he was clearly way off---they needed to dub on a new vocal, it was unreleasable. He sounded pretty good on the acoustic set, though. I can't believe they won't put a broadcast recording of Song To Woody on the new version, it was lovely and meaningful. Most of the show with it's superstar guests was utterly disposable, as you would expect.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 13:08 GMT 
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I'm starting to find this funny, as I only have the overdubbed version and always thought "man he doesn't sound too good on this one, they should have overdubbed that". :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 13:19 GMT 
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^ Exactly. It's like, man, he couldn't even get himself together for twenty seconds of overdubs!? That performer seems like he's not long for this world.

smoke wrote:
I love Dylan dearly, but he was clearly way off---they needed to dub on a new vocal, it was unreleasable. He sounded pretty good on the acoustic set, though. I can't believe they won't put a broadcast recording of Song To Woody on the new version, it was lovely and meaningful.


Excluding Song To Woody is baffling. I can't fathom why they'd leave it off.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 13:44 GMT 
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Dylan singing 'Song to Woody' at a tribute show dedicated to himself was a fantastic gesture and in many ways the defining moment of the show: in truth, the show makes no sense without this performance.

Dylan's contemporaries and the generation that followed came to pay tribute to Dylan, and Dylan used the opportunity to pay tribute to his early hero, singing one of the earliest songs he wrote. It put all that went before in the show in perspective, and without it the show comes across as something different than it was.

The meaning is changed completely: where Dylan had deflected attention from himself with his first song in front of the adoring crowd with 'Song to Woody' and reminded them of his roots, he starts on the DVD with one of his mid-60s word-assaults. The switchback from simplicity to complexity is lost and the integrity of Dylan's deliberate song selction is scuppured.

It seems extraordinary that bonus material includes rehearsal performances by other artists, and this performance is omitted. Luckily, we have the performance, and we know the truth; all the decision-makers at Sony and amongst Dylan's people won't change that.

Here it is:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/bpam1l


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 15:23 GMT 
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Listened to Dylan's portion again. "It's Alright Ma" in particular holds up really well. He tears into that difficult song with unshakable focus, but spaces out for his simpler cameos on "Heaven's Door" and the like. Weird.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 15:38 GMT 
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Maria wrote:
BTW i like the original much more and cannot listen to the fake version.
Maria, could you explain what you like about his original vocal performance here? OR is it the principle of thing. C'mon. To each his own, but here we have a lurching, sputtering sputum-fest that barely holds up as human and that put his fellow singers in the awkward position of having to keep their jaws from plummeting to the floor at its god-awfulness.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 18:10 GMT 
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All this time, I never knew that I was listening to a fake recording. This is kinda like learning that Santa isn't real. I'm very depressed.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 18:40 GMT 
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Most live albums (and films) are "fixed" by overdubbing and editing. Par for the course.


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 18:59 GMT 
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^ Yep. Official live releases and boots are different beasts. They have different audiences. Some of the best live music films - like Stop Making Sense, The Last Waltz - are "fake". Sequences are tampered with, sound problems fixed... for a reason. If you want to enjoy the raw material, that's what the boots are for. The existence of an official, overdubbed release doesn't magically make the bootlegs disappear..


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PostPosted: Thu February 13th, 2014, 19:06 GMT 
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Not to derail the thread, but here's an article detailing some of what was done to the Woodstock soundtrack - perhaps the most famous "live" album and film ever.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204251404574344372691481000?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052970204251404574344372691481000.html


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PostPosted: Fri February 14th, 2014, 00:29 GMT 
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Not to derail the thread - but that's an interesting article. Didn't know that had ever been done, bringing in actors to augment crowd participation! ("for the cheering and chant-along to Sly and the Family Stone's "I Want to Take You Higher," actors were brought to a Hollywood recording studio.") Here's a telling quote on the subject by Steve Visconti, who produced Thin Lizzy's 'Live and Dangerous' - "Despite the necessary trickery this album is very real. It represents electrifying moments before an audience and fabulous second chances to get it right in the studio." This outrageous pragmatism must curl many a purist's toe. So just to put things in perspective for those who equate post-production with spiritual betrayal, here are a couple famous examples, the last one is not but is intriguing:

The Doors - Absolutely Live
Quote:
"'Producer Paul Rothchild painstakingly edited the album from many different shows to create one cohesive concert. For example, the best part of a song from the Detroit show may have been spliced together with another part of the same song from the Boston show, trying to create "the ultimate concert." Rothchild has said, "I couldn't get complete takes of a lot of songs, so sometimes I'd cut from Detroit to Philadelphia in midsong. There must be 2,000 edits on that album." (But apparently no overdubs!)

Kiss - Alive!
Quote:
In recent years (and muddied by memory, he may have been thinking of Alive II), producer Eddie Kramer has stated that the only original live recording on the album is Peter Criss' drum tracks. Criss has also claimed that the only original live recordings on the album were his drum tracks. During the program Classic Albums, band members all stated that many changes had been made, such as overdubbing vocals and mixing together various crowd sounds to get a more amplified sense of the "live" sound, in order to better capture the feel of the actual performances, as the raw recordings only dimly picked up the audience. They also stated that they had difficulties capturing vocals due to jumps, dancing, etc.

Also this intriguing post by one wag:
Quote:
"Live At Watkins Glen" by The Band
is an interesting album. Several tracks on that release were studio recordings with overdubbed audience. Some other tracks may have been live recordings or taken from rehearsals, but they were not recorded at Watkins Glen. A couple of tracks may be from the Watkins Glen concert. Possibly. - Solitary Man, stevehoffman.tv


http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/m ... ms.207436/


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PostPosted: Fri February 14th, 2014, 01:14 GMT 
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That last one seems to be confirmed by several sources.

Quote:
The Band - Live At Watkins Glen - What a flipping mess that one is...live tracks from 12/71 (Academy of Music), 8/69 (Woodstock), Moondog Matinee outtakes and only two tracks from the actual Watkins Glen show.


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