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Is this a crap list?
Yes 65%  65%  [ 81 ]
No 35%  35%  [ 43 ]
Total votes : 124
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PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 01:03 GMT 
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PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 04:07 GMT 

Joined: Tue December 13th, 2005, 18:03 GMT
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
I'm gonna throw in my opinion about Stree Legal here, and I guess it really is just one persons opinion, but I have always felt that Street Legal is one of Dylan's BAD albums. The fact that it has some great songs, in terms of writing, on it, such as Senor (which I think is one of the greatest songs he's written), New Pony, and Where Are You Tonight doesn't really over shadow the fact that the records production is terrible.

I probably wouldn't be so annoyed by this record if it didn't have songs that are so good on it because I don't care if poorly written songs have shit production. But to practically ruin great songs is quite bad.

What the record sounds like is the essence, to me, of liking the record. If it sounds lame and cheesy, like I think much of Street Legal does, I don't think it can be a great record.

But that's just my opinion and it probably doesn't matter very much to anyone who digs the album.


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PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 08:13 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 2nd, 2004, 22:48 GMT
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Location: Old Europe
harmonica albert wrote:
Out of such disagreements are legends made, Bernie.


yes they are, aren't they - so we don't have to discuss "street legal" again (you know i think one of his best albums...) here,
but seriously: what good does such a list anyway? we are here because he did soooooomething good at least, aren't we?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 11:51 GMT 
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Joined: Fri July 29th, 2005, 21:34 GMT
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Quote:
It's okay that you like bad art


Jesus, that is one of the most pompous, arrogant and frankly dim-witted things I have read for a long while. Listen up Harmonica albert, just because you pour endlessly over the lyrics of blonde and blonde and don't 'condescend' to listen to anything that doesn't confuse your fragile artistic mind, does not mean Street Legal is a bad album. Who are you to make such a judgement? We're talking about popular music here, you cannot throw in the phrase 'badly written' with such wild abandon as you do.

The fact is, it isn't his best record. In my opinion, it does not contain any true classics and was perhaps too hastily recorded. However, it is a great rock n' roll record: Good riffs, guitar playing, catchy choruses and a consistency that has rarely been matched on any other record (would anyone have wanted a record sounding the same as desire? - great as it was). True, there aren't any classics on the album, although 'Senor' and 'Changing of the guards' would come enter any list (see recent MOJO top 100). I see 'Street Legal' as a high water mark for Bob Dylan, after which he began the slip into mediocrity, from which he would thankfully ascend.

Harmonica Albert, perhaps you should consider judging 'art' by what it is trying to achieve. Bob wasn't making 'Street Legal' for elitist Philistines.


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PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 12:07 GMT 

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 11:44 GMT
Posts: 95
Location: West Sussex, England
Personally, I think that Street Legal, like many of Dylan's albums over the years, contains a core of good/great tracks plus a number of rather mediocre ones, where the three core tracks are Changing of the Guard, Senor and Where Are You Tonight?. (In a similar fashion, I believe that the core tracks from Time Out Of Mind are Not Dark Yet, Tryin' To Get To Heaven, Highlands and Standing In The Doorway.) I love the language, particularly that of Changing of the Guards - like much of Dylan's great writing, it is impossible to pin it down and, as such, it will mean something different to each listener.

For anybody to assert that 'he tried and failed' suggests that the writer is an authority on what Dylan was trying to achieve. As far as I am aware, Dylan hasn't put on record what he was aiming to achieve with Street Legal. I expect that Dylan would say that this was simply another batch of songs which reflected his place in the world and his mental attitiude at the time. The Dylan of 1978 was seemingly in some turmoil both personally and critically and this, to me, is reflected in both the lyrical content and the sound of the performance. Not his greatest record true, but far away from his worst.


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PostPosted: Tue February 14th, 2006, 23:43 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 27th, 2005, 23:42 GMT
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Location: Sweden
harmonica albert wrote:
I steal candy from babies, also.



Yes, I always suspected that. Another Shame on you.

But really, you get some kick out of hating the album, I've got that. it's ok. People get kicks out of different things, thats all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed February 15th, 2006, 22:13 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 13th, 2006, 10:44 GMT
Posts: 414
WhateverIs wrote:
So much of what's good is based on taste which is biased. Look at the guy who ranked Slow Train and Saved 1 and 2 respectively. Obviously he has a Christian ear.

I gonna have to say that ranking is rank.


Isn't it all based on taste? And as Shane pointed out, 'This, of course, changes on daily basis.' Well, perhaps not daily for me, but I wouldn't have ranked Slow Train and Saved 1 and 2 two months ago. And maybe I won't do it in two months time. But right now that's how I rank them. I have to admit that my choice is heavily influenced by the live performance from 1979 and 1980 which I've been listening to lately. I think they have a dynamism that is quite irresistible. And I am not Christian. I have never been. I'm not religious at all. It's not his 'message' that appeals to me. It is the fact he believes in it whole-heartedly and that he manages to convey it with such power and eloquence. It's bowls me over completely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed February 15th, 2006, 22:24 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3384
Location: Manchester UK
harmonica albert wrote:
Street Legal (far and away his worst, because he tried and failed)


Everyone has a right to an opinion, but this is perverse. I can understand you hating Street Legal, but hating it because Dylan made an effort???? Very weird.

When I first heard it I was shocked at how good it was, having read countless opinions about it being unlistenable schlock. The danger of slamming it Albert is that you put people off listening and forming their own opinions.


I also think you are at wrong about Dylan trying. I only think he made much of an effort on about four songs (Changing of the Guard, Senor, Where Are You Tonight - which are of a very high standard - and possibly No Time To Think). The rest are pretty ordinary songs about falling out of love. And New Pony. Even on No Time To Think I get the feeling he is just churning out words which rhyme.

The production is terrible (surely no-one can argue with that). The singing is weird and the band totally unrehearsed. If he was trying, surely the record would be properly recorded?


Having said all that, the album is one of those works that are fascinating because of their level of failure. Dylan totally disregards good taste. The unevenness is incredible - what happened to quality control to allow New Pony to be included?? Maybe I am just morbid but seeing what a great artist puts out while his world collapses is interesting.

As a judgement - it is an album I listen to. Not as often as the greatest Dylan albums (your top five plus BIABH and Freewheelin').
It's worth hearing just for the passion in the singing of Where Are You Tonight, leading to the exultant "I can't believe I'm alive" conclusion. If you're ever going through a rough patch, that song is a great tonic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed February 15th, 2006, 22:37 GMT 
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I didn't say I hated it. It's an ugly, incompetent work of art, but it's not something to hate.

I've learned much from the informed, even misinformed, opinions of others, and feel no need to shield delicate minds from my own passions and observations.

The narcissism and alienation so abundant in the songs of Street Legal may resonate with certain listeners, but some people love donuts also. That doesn't make donuts good food.

That's all I have time for at the moment.

Happy trails to all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu February 16th, 2006, 04:12 GMT 
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Joined: Fri March 25th, 2005, 08:07 GMT
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That was tough. Pretty much how it is this week. The first two or three never change though.

1.Freewheelin'
2.Blood On The Tracks
3.Highway 61 Revisited
4.Time Out Of Mind
5.Desire
6.Bringing It All Back Home
7.John Wesley Harding
8.Love & Theft
9.Time They Are A' Changin
10.New Morning
11.Self-Portrait
12.Blonde On Blonde
13.Good As I Been To You
14.Nashville Skyline
15.Planet Waves
16.Street Legal
17.Oh Mercy
18.Infidels
19.World Gone Wrong
20.Basement Tapes (Genuine)
21.Another Side
22.Slow Train
23.Bob Dylan
24.Empire Burlesque
25.Dylan
26.Shot Of Love
27.Under The Red Sky
28.Down In The Groove
29.Saved
30.Knocked Out Loaded


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu February 16th, 2006, 08:27 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 3384
Location: Manchester UK
harmonica albert wrote:
I didn't say I hated it. It's an ugly, incompetent work of art, but it's not something to hate.

I've learned much from the informed, even misinformed, opinions of others, and feel no need to shield delicate minds from my own passions and observations.

The narcissism and alienation so abundant in the songs of Street Legal may resonate with certain listeners, but some people love donuts also. That doesn't make donuts good food.


Apologies Albert: you didn't say you hated it. You do seem emotionally averse to Street Legal with perhaps more intensity than the level of failure deserves. Okay?

I don't argue with much you say other than the narcissim and alienation make the album interesting (and worth listening to). Street Legal is - in the main - an ugly, narcissitic, incompetent failure but fascinating. It is almost like watching Dylan without his critical faculties engaged. The result is a mess, but intriguing. Also makes me appreciate the successes more.
(SL is a bit like Mahler's symphonies - narcissitic self-pity writ large. At least Street Legal is shorter).

Just to extend the discussion: Desire seems to me to have the opposite set of failings. Very competent (excluding Joey obviously) but with Dylan largely disengaged other than Sara and maybe Hurricane. Seems to me he worked so hard on the lyrics (with Levy's help) that he forgot the original inspiration underlying them. The result is a more listenable record than SL, but one that seems uninteresting - Dylan for people who don't like Dylan.

Finally: great call on Dylan's best song but how can you question the greatness of donuts? Chocolate filled donuts - assuming the dough is cooked properly - food fit for the gods.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu February 16th, 2006, 10:12 GMT 

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 11:44 GMT
Posts: 95
Location: West Sussex, England
RichardW - a fine observation about Desire. Most non-Dyaln fans I know have Desire in their record/CD collection but still fall into the camp of "Dylan has written some good songs but he can't sing".

Good to see theat HarmonicaAlbert admits that SL is a work of art, albeit a flawed one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu February 16th, 2006, 11:06 GMT 

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 11:44 GMT
Posts: 95
Location: West Sussex, England
1 Highway 61 Revisited
2 Blonde-On-Blonde
3 Blood On The Tracks
4 Basement Tapes (I could 'a been a contender.)
5 John Wesley Harding
6 Bringing It All Back Home
7 Freewheelin'
8 Street Legal
9 Time Out Of Mind
10 The Times They Are A Changin
11 New Morning
12 Desire
13 Another Side of ....
14 Saved
15 Slow Train Coming
16 Love and Theft (still struggling with much of this album)
17 Oh Mercy
18 Planet Waves
19 Nashville Skyline
20 Infidels
21 Self-Portrait
22 Good As I Been To You
23 World Gone Wrong
24 Bob Dylan
25 Empire Burlesque
26 Dylan
27 Shot Of Love
28 Under The Red Sky
29 Knocked Out Loaded
30 Down In The Groove
31 Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 18:38 GMT 
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Joined: Wed February 15th, 2006, 18:27 GMT
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Location: Australia, NSW
Based on the Popularity during my Dylan-listening During this week...

1. Street LEgal(5+times)
2. Love and Theft(3+times)
3. Slow Train Coming(3+times)
4. The Rolling THunder REvue 1975(at least once through)
5. Another Side Of Bob Dylan(at least once through)
6. Self Portait(listened at least once through)
7. The Basement Tapes(listened at least once-through)
8. Bringing It All Back Home(almost listened whole album)
9. Blood On The Tracks(listened one tracks)

Top 9.

p.s: I must admit i haven't given a good portion of dylan's albums a good-listening to.
Albums i haven't given a good listening to include, Shot OF Love, Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded, Saved,... and mabye more.

Soon i'll burn these to mp3, so i can listen more conveniently on PC.


Last edited by Bland_Boy on Fri February 17th, 2006, 19:00 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 18:47 GMT 
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Part of the reason why I address Street Legal as I do is that my experience as artist and teacher has taught me that, in terms of one's creative process, the flaws in bad art present opportunities for understanding, sometimes better opportunities than great or more perfect art. A badly wrought metaphor or awkwardly phrased line can increase our understanding of how language works, and by analyzing failure, we refine our own technique and our ability to discern our own potential for failure when realized. That doesn't make the object of scrutiny any better, just useful for better things. I've written many poems and songs far worse than anything on Street Legal. Fortunately, I have not published or performed any of them. Dumb luck, I guess.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 18:58 GMT 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 19:40 GMT 
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Joined: Sun September 25th, 2005, 23:45 GMT
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I do not believe in lists... they lead to conflict and unfairness... all lists should banned for the benefit of all... the weakest will always come last in a list... people who like lists are nothing but crazed bullies... remember Dylan has never released a 'list' song... all people and little furry animals should be treated as equal to one-another... all through history 'list makers' have caused much misery and madness... let us refrain from even further listmania.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 20:05 GMT 
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Missed you, o stout one. Words of wisdom per your usual.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri February 17th, 2006, 20:13 GMT 
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Thanks Mr, Albert.


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PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 04:30 GMT 

Joined: Sat February 5th, 2005, 18:05 GMT
Posts: 448
Yakman wrote:
Instead of the familiar challenge of a top 10, why not waste some time and rank them all in order?


Lol, sure...

1. Highway 61 Revisited (1965) Best song: Like a Rolling Stone
2. Blonde on Blonde (1966) Best song: Visions of Johanna
3. Blood on the Tracks (1975) Best song: Tangled Up in Blue
4. Bringing It All Back Home (1965) Best song: Mr. Tambourine Man
5. The Freewheelin' (1963) Best song: A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall
6. Love and Theft (2001) Best song: Mississippi
7. Basement Tapes (1975) Best song: Goin' to Acapulco
8. John Wesley Harding (1967) Best song: All Along the Watchtower
9. Time Out of Mind (1997) Best song: Not Dark Yet
10. World Gone Wrong (1993) Best song: Delia's Gone

11. The Times They Are A-Changin' (1964) Best song: The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll
12. Another side of Bob Dylan (1964) Best song: Chimes of Freedom
13. Modern Times (2006) Best song: Ain't Talkin'
14. Oh Mercy (1989) Best song: Most of the Time
15. Desire (1976) Best song: Sara
16. Planet Waves (1974) Best song: Going, Going, Gone
17. Bob Dylan (1962) Best song: Song for Woody
18. Nashville Skyline (1969) Best song: Tonight I'll Be Staying Here
19. Infidels (1983) Best song: Jokerman
20. New Morning (1970) Best song: Sign on the Window

21. Together Through Life (2009) Best song: Beyond Here Lies Nothin'
22. Pat Garret and Billy the Kid (1973) Best song: Knocking on Heaven's Door
23. Shot of Love (1981) Best song: Every Grain of Sand
24. Slow Train Coming (1979) Best song: I Believe in You
25. Good as I Been to You (1992) Best song: Frankie and Albert
26. Under the Red Sky (1990) Best song: Born in Time
27. Street Legal (1978) Best song: Where Are You Tonight?
28. Empire Burlesque (1985) Best song: Dark Eyes
29. Knocked Out Loaded (1986) Best song: Brownsville Girl
30. Self Portrait (1970) Best song: Copper Kettle
31. Saved (1980) Best song: Pressing On
32. Christmas in the Heart (2009) Best song: It Must Be Santa
33. Down in the Groove (1988)
34. Dylan (1973)


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PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 11:22 GMT 
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At least this thread has Buckets of Moonbeams avatar.


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PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 11:49 GMT 
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The only interesting about this list is the bottom four so I'll cut to the chase:

33. Down In The Groove
32. Dylan

(There should really be a gap here)

33. Empire Bullshit (Despite Dark Eyes)
34. Knocked out Loaded (Despite nothing)


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PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 12:17 GMT 
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The classics

Blood on the Tracks
Highway 61 Revisited
Blonde on Blonde
John Wesley Harding
Time Out of Mind
Bringing it all Back Home
The Times They are a-Changin'
The Freewheelin' Bob

The absolute stinkers

Self Portrait
Dylan (revenge record)
Budokan
Knocked out Loaded
Down in the Groove
Dylan & the Dead

The rest are shades of grey and I'd never waste my time ranking them.


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PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 12:29 GMT 
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Location: a thousand miles behind.
1. Blonde on Blonde BS: Visions of Johanna
2. Highway 61 Revisited BS: Desolation Row
3. Bringing It All Back Home BS: It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)
4. Blood on The Tracks BS: Shelter from the Storm
5. Time Out of Mind BS: Not Dark Yet
6. John Wesley Harding BS: The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest
7. Love & Theft BS: High Water
8. Desire BS: Isis
9. The Times They Are a-Changin' BS: When The Ship Comes In
10. The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan BS: A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall
11. Oh Mercy BS: Man In The Long Black Coat
12. Slow Train Coming BS: Gonna Change My Way of Thinking
13. Street-Legal BS: Changing Of The Guards
14. Infidels BS: Jokerman
15. Another Side of Bob Dylan BS: My Back Pages
16. Modern Times BS: Ain't Talkin'
17. Together Through Life BS: Forgetful Heart
18. World Gone Wrong BS: Jack-a-Roe
19. Good as I Been to You BS: Hard Times
20. The Basement Tapes BS: Tears of Rage
21. Shot of Love BS: Every Grain of Sand
22. New Morning BS: Day of the Locusts
23. Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid BS: Knockin' On Heaven's Door
24. Planet Waves BS: Going, Going, Gone
25. Empire Burlesque BS: Dark Eyes
26. Under The Red Sky BS: Born In Time
27. Nashville Skyline BS: Girl From The North County
28. Saved BS: Covenant Woman
29. Bob Dylan BS: Baby, Let Me Follow You Down
30. Self Portrait BS: The Mighty Quinn (Quinn the Eskimo)
31. Christmas in the Heart BS: Silver Bells
32. Knocked Out Loaded BS: Brownsville Girl
33. Down in The Groove BS: Silvio
34. Dylan (1973) BS: Lily of the West


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon March 12th, 2012, 12:45 GMT 
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RichardW wrote:
harmonica albert wrote:
Street Legal (far and away his worst, because he tried and failed)


Everyone has a right to an opinion, but this is perverse. I can understand you hating Street Legal, but hating it because Dylan made an effort???? Very weird.

When I first heard it I was shocked at how good it was, having read countless opinions about it being unlistenable schlock. The danger of slamming it Albert is that you put people off listening and forming their own opinions.


I also think you are at wrong about Dylan trying. I only think he made much of an effort on about four songs (Changing of the Guard, Senor, Where Are You Tonight - which are of a very high standard - and possibly No Time To Think). The rest are pretty ordinary songs about falling out of love. And New Pony. Even on No Time To Think I get the feeling he is just churning out words which rhyme.

The production is terrible (surely no-one can argue with that). The singing is weird and the band totally unrehearsed. If he was trying, surely the record would be properly recorded?


Having said all that, the album is one of those works that are fascinating because of their level of failure. Dylan totally disregards good taste. The unevenness is incredible - what happened to quality control to allow New Pony to be included?? Maybe I am just morbid but seeing what a great artist puts out while his world collapses is interesting.

As a judgement - it is an album I listen to. Not as often as the greatest Dylan albums (your top five plus BIABH and Freewheelin').
It's worth hearing just for the passion in the singing of Where Are You Tonight, leading to the exultant "I can't believe I'm alive" conclusion. If you're ever going through a rough patch, that song is a great tonic.


"Allow" New Pony? It may be an accidental success but it's easily the best track on the record; best performance, too. I'd nominate "Where Are You Tonight" for any list of VERY WORST Dylan vocals ever, so nasal it's horrid. Lyric is only occasionally interesting and the music utterly forgettable. In short, it's awful.


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