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PostPosted: Mon May 18th, 2009, 11:24 GMT 
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My mistake: i obviously LOVE Dark Eyes.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19th, 2009, 00:02 GMT 
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I have to say give EB a chance too. I used to completely hate it a few years back. These days I don't love it, but it's definitely a good listen. I think Driftin Too Far From Shore and Brownsville Girl were recorded at the sessions too, so add them in and you have an even better album. I think it's really just the 80s production sound that puts most people off. Me included, in the beginning. The songs themselves are great, imo. Remix it, like Street-Legal, and a lot more will enjoy it.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19th, 2009, 06:45 GMT 

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That version of Groom with Bloomfield is one of the most played songs in my entire collection.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19th, 2009, 16:38 GMT 
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circus sands wrote:
almotasim wrote:
I mean, for me, this:

Shot Of Love
Heart Of Mine
Propriety of Jesus
Watered Down Love
The Groom Is Still Wainting At The Altar
Carribean Wind
You Changed My Life
In The Summertime
Angelina
Every Grain Of Sand

would make Shot Of Love even better than Oh Mercy and be Dylan's best record of the 80s. And one of the best of his career.


If that were the actual album, I bet we all would be talking about what masterpieces Lenny Bruce, Dead Man Dead Man and Trouble are and how they should have been included on the album :lol:


Crap, you beat me to it. I do like the fact that I can create playlists in my iPod that will allow me to hear what Shot of Love with Carribean Wind would sound like, or Oh Mercy with God Knows, Series of Dreams, etc. I would probably complain about what got left off to make room for those songs. Well, maybe.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19th, 2009, 16:51 GMT 

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There's hardly ever been a Dylan record that doesn't have at least one good-to-great song on it. KOL has 'Brownville Girl.' EB has 'Dark Eyes.' TTL has 'Beyond Here Lies Nothing.' SP has 'Copper Kettle.' SOL has 'Every Grain of Sand.' SL has 'Senor.' And so on.

With that qualification in mind, SOL is nonetheless terrible. Terrible vocals, terrible sound, terrible music, terrible lyrics. An album that only a mother could love. Still - 'Groom' is one kickass song. :wink:

(Now 'Angelina' is a bona-fide masterpiece IMHO. One of those Bob songs that opens up its own entire world. It's almost scary to me how, even in what most consider to be his darkest creative days, Dylan could write material as overpowering as 'Angelina,' 'Foot of Pride,' 'Blind Willie McTell,' 'Jokerman,' 'Every Grain of Sand' - stuff that ranks with his very best work, ever. That's got to be one definition of a genius, someone whose gifts are so profuse that they can emerge even in the blackest periods of confusion and self-sabotage).


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PostPosted: Thu May 28th, 2009, 21:41 GMT 
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4 out of 5.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29th, 2009, 11:04 GMT 
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circus sands wrote:
I don't remember all the details, but I do know this song is unique as it wasn't originally on the album Shot of Love. I believe it was a B-side for a single, and it was added to the album later.


Yeah, its been quite a few years, but IIRC it was the flipside to "Heart of Mine."

"Trouble in Mind" was the flipside to "Gotta Serve Somebody".

I should check my 45's and see what else I have. Back in those days if you were a fan you always went over to the 45 shelf and checked "B" sides for songs that might not be on albums.

I think it was George Harrison's "Give Me Love" that had something diiferent on the "B" side so I bought it. Over the intro music George tells the band, "OK, we've got a 'b' side to make." In other words, it wasn't a hidden gem that I'd found. :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 29th, 2009, 11:33 GMT 

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Love this song.. it totally rocks. Not sure what it's about (israel)?


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PostPosted: Sun January 6th, 2013, 19:50 GMT 
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An underated song originally left off of a criminally underated LP.
Image


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PostPosted: Sun January 6th, 2013, 20:24 GMT 
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I love it! One of my favourites from gospel albums. I always see it in my head used at the beginning of a movie- main character for the first time drives through the city after the war or apocalypse and see all these crazy things happening on the streets


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PostPosted: Tue March 24th, 2015, 07:22 GMT 

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Gibrataaa-aaaar.

There's got to me a name for this kind of drawn-out sneer. It's the same sneer used in the heavy-rock 1978 Masters of War at the end of every verse (a la Earls Court) that I love. Very Dylanesque.

I guess I'll name it: The sneer-drawl.


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PostPosted: Tue March 24th, 2015, 09:31 GMT 
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Despite the dental drill slide and the backing vocals it always comes through when played loud.


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PostPosted: Fri March 27th, 2015, 02:59 GMT 
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On the album, the chorus, broadly apocalyptic, feels like a redemptive release from the atmosphere of paranoid urban claustrophobia that’s so well-evoked in the verses. I like the camera pan at the end. In quick succession, the song moves from on the border to Buenos Aries, to west of the Jordan, to east of the Rock Of Gibraltar.


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PostPosted: Fri March 27th, 2015, 03:14 GMT 

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Live version with Bloomfield is still my preferred version. Oddly enough, the bootleg of the soundboard recording sounds like it was taken from a better master than the one later used for the official Bloomfield box set.


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PostPosted: Fri March 27th, 2015, 19:37 GMT 
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I like the song. I think my favorite line is the "She could be happily married, or running a whore house in Buenos Aires" line. It might not be exactly like that, but that's basically it.


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PostPosted: Tue April 14th, 2015, 20:07 GMT 
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The Groom’s Still Waiting At The Altar is a riot of rhyming, but not unmarshalled. I had a look at first four verses of the superior official lyrics, and Dylan rhymes in two distinct ways to calibrate an explosive mixture of precision and abandon. (On the record, the scheme only holds fast for the middle three verses.) The rhymes outside of the chorus are either more exact than would be usual (collections of words that rhyme every syllable), or more inexact than would be usual (single words with unequal numbers of syllables, and not all syllables rhyming). He entirely eschews simple single word rhymes. This helps give the song its rampant, overflowing feel but maintains its shapely rigour.
The single word rhymes are : innocent/cement; nauseated/deteriorated; humiliated/obligated; temperature/furniture. Extravagant, and delightfully jagged, the rhyming words always mismatch by one or two syllables. Also, the first syllables of the rhyming words sound jarringly dissimilar every time. There’s a thrill to the way “ob-li-ga-ted” comes to an agreement with “hu-mil-i-a-ted”, because “ob-li” is nothing like “hu-mil”. Every pairing is enlivened by that sweet surprise when two words start off differently and end on the same sound.
The multiple-word rhymes are : for robbery/for snobbery; sent to me/meant to be; to haunt me/to want me; to leap it/to keep it. These are by contrast exceedingly well-fitting (though “haunt” would struggle to correspond convincingly with “want” all by itself). At the heart of the enterprise, Dylan takes six very similar phrases (three one-syllable words, one of which is "to") and pairs them up into three rhymes. He places one into each of the middle verses. There's also a pleasingly precise two-word rhyme (for robbery/for snobbery). All of the rhyming phrases here have the same number of syllables. Every syllable rhymes. All of the phrases share at least one word, and two of the phrases share two words.
Up until the final verse, then, either he rhymes multi-syllable, complex words that don’t quite match; or he rhymes phrases combined of a few generally simpler words which tally precisely, rhyming every syllable. As Ricks noted, though, a change in rhyming is often used to signal the end of a Dylan song, so it’s typical that we see the pattern being broken in the final verse : order/border; January/Buenos Aries.
In the chorus, which rhymes "page" with "age" and "Gibraltar" with "altar", you'll see that in each instance the longer of the words contains the entirety of the shorter word. So the chorus’ rhyming has its own character, defined by its inclusive nature. This encompassing effect is employed for the only time outside of the chorus in the last verse’s “order/border”. Straight forward and comprehensive, it signals the end of the scheme that has allowed the song to swagger and rat-a-tat up to that point. And that precise, penultimate rhyme works as a leveller, creates a ceremonial clearing, for the last verse’s spectacular crowning rhyme. The most ludicrous, inspired rhyme in the song and perhaps Dylan's career : January/Buenos Aires. One word rhyming with two, chancingly so, but an exact match in terms of syllables.
A transforming electricity is run through each line on The Groom’s Still Waiting At The Altar. In a world where walls deteriorate or have to be leapt over, things fall apart, things come together. Dylan’s rhyming tactics mean that three words can have more coherence than a single word. When Dylan rhymes groups of words, each syllable chimes, none go unanswered, none clash; when Dylan rhymes single words together, syllables chime, go unanswered, clash.


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PostPosted: Tue April 14th, 2015, 22:41 GMT 

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Thanks Trev. Your post itself is a piece of art. Went to a lecture by Professor Ricks many years ago called Bob Dylan, The Rhyme Schemer. This post would have been a perfect fit.


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PostPosted: Wed April 15th, 2015, 03:22 GMT 

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Trev wrote:
The single word rhymes are : innocent/cement; nauseated/deteriorated; humiliated/obligated; temperature/furniture. Extravagant, and delightfully jagged, the rhyming words always mismatch by one or two syllables. Also, the first syllables of the rhyming words sound jarringly dissimilar every time. There’s a thrill to the way “ob-li-ga-ted” comes to an agreement with “hu-mil-i-a-ted”, because “ob-li” is nothing like “hu-mil”. Every pairing is enlivened by that sweet surprise when two words start off differently and end on the same sound.

Up until the final verse, then, either he rhymes multi-syllable, complex words that don’t quite match


I've not had time to process your whole analysis, so I don't quite "get" it all, but the part above calls to mind the use of uneasy, half-rhymes in Wilfred Owen's World War 1 Masterpiece "Strange Meeting" in which the partial rhymes--more like word echoes than rhymes--add to the dissonant, eerie quality of the poem--not unlike the "jarring" quality you mention above:

Strange Meeting
BY WILFRED OWEN
It seemed that out of battle I escaped
Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
Through granites which titanic wars had groined.
Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
Lifting distressful hands, as if to bless.
And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall,—
By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.


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PostPosted: Thu March 17th, 2016, 07:06 GMT 
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I just discovered the "Fox Warfield '80" version. A little off-beat, but the energy alone make it one the best performances (albeit on a short list).


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PostPosted: Fri March 18th, 2016, 01:05 GMT 

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Oh, how I love this song. Truly one of the greatest for me, though I only discovered it recently. One of the ones that more people should hear - they'd realise then that they have misunderstood dylan.


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PostPosted: Fri March 18th, 2016, 08:33 GMT 

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The crazy rhymes remind me of Byron at his best, like in Don Juan. One that comes to mind is a couple of lines saying the ladies intellectual / have hen pecked you all. That one just knocked me down when I read it, and Don Juan is full of great ones like that. And he's surprisingly the funniest old-school poet ever. Rhyming Juan with new one, poking fun at his fellow English speakers' poor Spanish pronunciation.


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PostPosted: Wed January 17th, 2018, 19:12 GMT 

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I've been listening to the 1980 Warfield performances with Santana and Bloomfield. I hadn't heard Santana's until the new box set came out. Santana's seems the most suited for an official release - those fiery solos really stand out (and makes one wish that Dylan had used him for an album or two - they would have left a welcome and distinctive stamp).

But Bloomfield's performance really makes me wish he had a second attempt on this song during the same tour. His first solo is a mess, and he still fumbles a bit on the second, but over the course of the song he gradually settles in and by the end, he's a perfect fit. By the last verse, he complements Dylan's singing perfectly and beautifully. One gets the impression that Santana was more focused on the solos (he's barely audible during the rest of the song) while Bloomfield was putting in a lot of thought into he fills, because there are a LOT of fills, and they don't clutter up the song at all - each bit is sensitively done with perfect instinct. With another performance or two, he could've really nailed the solos, thus delivering us the hands down definitive performance/take of this song.


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PostPosted: Wed January 17th, 2018, 21:54 GMT 
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Thanks Trev, for that disective analysis.
Time to relook at the lyrics:

The Groom’s Still Waiting At The Altar

Prayed in the ghetto with my face in the cement,
Heard the last moan of a boxer, seen the massacre of the innocent
Felt around for the light switch, became nauseated.
She was walking down the hallway while the walls deteriorated.

East of the Jordan, hard as the Rock of Gibraltar,
I see the burning of the page, Curtain risin' on a new age,
See the groom still waitin' at the altar.

Try to be pure at heart, they arrest you for robbery,
Mistake your shyness for aloofness, your silence for snobbery,
Got the message this morning, the one that was sent to me
About the madness of becomin' what one was never meant to be.

West of the Jordan, east of the Rock of Gibraltar,
I see the burning of the stage,
Curtain risin' on a new age,
See the groom still waitin' at the altar.

Don't know what I can say about Claudette that wouldn't come back to haunt me,
Finally had to give her up 'bout the time she began to want me.
But I know God has mercy on them who are slandered and humiliated.
I'd a-done anything for that woman if she didn't make me feel so obligated.

West of the Jordan, west of the Rock of Gibraltar,
I see the burning of the cage,
Curtain risin' on a new stage,
See the groom still waitin' at the altar.

Put your hand on my head, baby, do I have a temperature?
I see people who are supposed to know better standin' around like furniture.
There's a wall between you and what you want and you got to leap it,
Tonight you got the power to take it, tomorrow you won't have the power to
keep it.

West of the Jordan, east of the Rock of Gibraltar,
I see the burning of the stage, Curtain risin' on a new age,
See the groom still waitin' at the altar.

Cities on fire, phones out of order,
They're killing nuns and soldiers, there's fighting on the border.
What can I say about Claudette?
Ain't seen her since January,
She could be respectably married or running a whorehouse in Buenos Aires.

West of the Jordan, west of the Rock of Gibraltar,
I see the burning of the stage,
Curtain risin' on a new age,
See the groom still waitin' at the altar.

Copyright © 1981 Special Rider Music



bobdylan.com


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