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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 12:22 GMT 

Joined: Wed November 20th, 2013, 09:18 GMT
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Has there ever been anything wrote about who it could be? From £you're gonna make me lonesome when you go"

Purple clover, Queen Anne lace
Crimson hair across your face

Ellen Bernstein is accredited as the main subject of the song however she wasnt a read head.

Also on tangled up in blue

Early one mornin' the sun was shinin'
I was layin' in bed
Wondrin' if she'd changed at all
If her hair was still red

Is this another case of him using "I had to rearrange their faces and give them all another name"? Or is the red head the blood on the tracks?


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 15:08 GMT 

Joined: Sat April 25th, 2009, 14:58 GMT
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It always puzzles me somewhat that people assume every song Dylan writes is not only autobiographical in sentiment, but also completely factual and true to life.

No doubt, Blood On The Tracks in its songs is Dylan working through the emotions of a longterm relationship falling apart. Also, it makes sense that Ellen Bernstein played some role in the writing of You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go. But personally, I don't think that means that there has to be a secret redhead. Sara had red hair sometimes, right? Maybe in that line, he's fusing two women. Or he is writing about a completely fictional woman that has some of EB's characteristics.

Whatever's the case, I think trying to figure out the "real life inspiration" doesn't necessarily get us any closer to what the song means. Art transcends that stuff and I think it's only fair to give Dylan more credit than that.

Just my opinion though - of course it's tempting to try and find what might have gotten Dylan's inspiration going in the first place, I'm just not sure how productive it is.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 17:14 GMT 
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Clinton Heylin mentions a girl Dylan met on the 74 tour who hung out with him a lot around then who's a candidate.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 17:44 GMT 
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I usually make the assumption that nothing Bob writes is autobiographical. I think that’s a safer bet than the other way round.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 19:34 GMT 
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I always took the song as a kind of painting. In part about the color blue-and the use of the color as a shade/mood of where the narrator is at in this moment (as it is tangled up in the past present and future—which is all the present, actually—like it would be in a painting). And the red head is not part of the narrator’s blue period. Unless she’s changed. And then could be? That probably makes little sense, lol, but that’s how it kind of rolls in my head anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 20:15 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 8th, 2018, 15:57 GMT
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I smells what you're stepping in with that. ... Painting colour schemes & whatnots.

.... I'm not very well versed in painting terms, but if anyone wants to dig a little deeper into what Mr. Stetson is saying, just briefly research/Google Pablo Picasso's blue period and his red or rose period and what they represent.

... Interesting stuff and worth the while. ... Does explain the song better if keeping in mind the influence that painting class had on Dylan during the time period he wrote the song.

Side note.... Big fan of The Old Guitarist. .... There's also a semi famous poem about the painting called The Man With The Blue Guitar that is pretty good as well.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 20:26 GMT 
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I recall a comment someone made sometime back that 'Tangled Up In Blue" was a reference to Joni Mitchell's album 'Blue'.

Joni herself a painter.


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PostPosted: Tue July 17th, 2018, 23:34 GMT 

Joined: Sat June 16th, 2018, 08:54 GMT
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Bob used to call Sarah blue, I think the reason may have been her blue eyes hence the nickname blue.
She also had stunning thick red hair at times, black in her early days and in the movie renaldo and Clara to me it was crimson. We all know that blood on the tracks was all about bob and Sarah’s breaking up. Jackob Dylan once said in an interview that that lp was all about his parents break up. Same has also been stated in all the biographies I have read. But who ever the red head is only bob really knows and if it wasn’t Sarah nowbody will ever know who it was. Bobs never been known to kiss and tell!


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PostPosted: Wed July 18th, 2018, 06:28 GMT 
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I agree with Laura, kuddukan and Stetson.

2 pics I took from Sean Wilentz's book, Bob Dylan in America:

Attachment:
1.jpg


Attachment:
2.jpg


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PostPosted: Fri July 20th, 2018, 16:38 GMT 
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seriously? Sara has/had dark? brown eyes. and dark brown hair, it seems, as well. At least it has appeared dark brown/black (sometimes straight, sometimes curly) in all the photos I've seen of her. Beautiful hair? Yes, at least I think so. Red? not so much.

In Renaldo and Clara, she wore different wigs -- perhaps one was reddish ... but Crimson? That's a stretch. However, (pssst ...) I did read a story that she dated/had an affair with David Blue so "tangled up in blue" could be a reference to him ... (wink, wink ... lol)!

Kiko wrote:
Bob used to call Sarah blue, I think the reason may have been her blue eyes hence the nickname blue.
She also had stunning thick red hair at times, black in her early days and in the movie renaldo and Clara to me it was crimson. We all know that blood on the tracks was all about bob and Sarah’s breaking up. Jackob Dylan once said in an interview that that lp was all about his parents break up. Same has also been stated in all the biographies I have read. But who ever the red head is only bob really knows and if it wasn’t Sarah nowbody will ever know who it was. Bobs never been known to kiss and tell!


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PostPosted: Sat July 21st, 2018, 13:36 GMT 
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rhymes with bed... Followng is from the Tulsa archive... which one would you have picked?

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was laying on her back
Wonder if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still black

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was swimming in a pond
Wondering if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still blonde

Early one morning the rain was falling
She woke up all wet
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still brunette

Early one morning the sun was shining
I was feeling quite mean
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still green

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue July 24th, 2018, 23:41 GMT 

Joined: Sat June 16th, 2018, 08:54 GMT
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blue wrote:
seriously? Sara has/had dark? brown eyes. and dark brown hair, it seems, as well. At least it has appeared dark brown/black (sometimes straight, sometimes curly) in all the photos I've seen of her. Beautiful hair? Yes, at least I think so. Red? not so much.

In Renaldo and Clara, she wore different wigs -- perhaps one was reddish ... but Crimson? That's a stretch. However, (pssst ...) I did read a story that she dated/had an affair with David Blue so "tangled up in blue" could be a reference to him ... (wink, wink ... lol)!

Kiko wrote:
Bob used to call Sarah blue, I think the reason may have been her blue eyes hence the nickname blue.
She also had stunning thick red hair at times, black in her early days and in the movie renaldo and Clara to me it was crimson. We all know that blood on the tracks was all about bob and Sarah’s breaking up. Jackob Dylan once said in an interview that that lp was all about his parents break up. Same has also been stated in all the biographies I have read. But who ever the red head is only bob really knows and if it wasn’t Sarah nowbody will ever know who it was. Bobs never been known to kiss and tell!

Well I was told tangled up in blue was about bob and Sarah. I also was told she had blue eyes like bobs and he nick named her blue. I checked some photos out of Sarah all mostly in black and white. But yeh there was a couple of pics there in color and yes eyes are brown. She was maried to victor lodens when bob and Sarah first met, soon after that they got divorced and bob secretly maried her. It looks like David blue was the one who had his crimson hair on her face lol. In any case I’m not one to anylise bobs songs. But this David blue thing could be the go. In any case it’s a fantastic song wheather Sarah had red hair or Not lol.


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PostPosted: Wed July 25th, 2018, 03:54 GMT 
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stevieblooz wrote:
rhymes with bed... Followng is from the Tulsa archive... which one would you have picked?

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was laying on her back
Wonder if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still black

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was swimming in a pond
Wondering if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still blonde

Early one morning the rain was falling
She woke up all wet
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still brunette

Early one morning the sun was shining
I was feeling quite mean
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still green

:lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol:

Don't forget

Her eyes were blue
Her hair was too

from If You See Her Say Hello circa 2003


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PostPosted: Wed July 25th, 2018, 18:14 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 22nd, 2015, 09:00 GMT
Posts: 15
Sometimes I reckon lyrics are just there if they rhyme well, regardless of meaning or intent...


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PostPosted: Fri July 27th, 2018, 23:46 GMT 
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^too often, imo -- but never in really good songs (or poems) ... perhaps that's the difference between "crafting" a song and writing/creating?/birthing? a song (being "inspired" and "pulling songs from the ether" as some songwriters call it). The Dylan in a TV interview says something to the effect that he not longer writes like that. The young Dylan would have compromised the rhyme and went with the inspiration/intent.

WHEN IN ROME wrote:
Sometimes I reckon lyrics are just there if they rhyme well, regardless of meaning or intent...


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PostPosted: Sun July 29th, 2018, 05:41 GMT 

Joined: Tue February 3rd, 2015, 19:05 GMT
Posts: 545
stevieblooz wrote:
rhymes with bed... Followng is from the Tulsa archive... which one would you have picked?

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was laying on her back
Wonder if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still black

Early one morning the sun was shining
She was swimming in a pond
Wondering if she changed at all
Or if her hair was still blonde

Early one morning the rain was falling
She woke up all wet
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still brunette

Early one morning the sun was shining
I was feeling quite mean
Wondering if she changed at all
Or was her hair still green

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Exactly. Rhymes with red.

Id pick green


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