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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 01:19 GMT 
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Oh for gosh sakes, do you actually think that Bob visited an opium den or got to see any of the other subjects for his paintings? He was flown in and flown out; he wouldn't have had a chance to see real life in Asia. It's just a good thing that someone had the good sense to appropriate really good art for his paintings. Oh my, I can feel your attacks coming as I type this, maybe I'd better erase this; or maybe not.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 02:37 GMT 
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OH OH I FEEL A BOB STATEMENT ON BOBDYLAN.COM COMING ON...

BOB NEVER SAID NOTHING TO NOBODY AND THE PUBLICIST DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO LOOK AT THE WORK THEY WERE HIRED TO FLACK AND DASHED OFF THAT FIRST-HAND IDEA NOT EVEN THINKING, WELL DOESN'T THAT LOOK LIKE SOMEONE DRESSED LIKE THE 1800'S AND BOB WAS IN AN OPIUM DEN? UH DUH - WELCOME TO SHOW BUSINESS, AGAIN BOB JUST LAUGHS...

maybe this is how it went:
BOB TOOK AN OVERHEAD PROJECTOR INTO HIS CROSSED-SWORD swarthy-ass mucho SEXY STUDIO,

BLEW UP THE FANTASTICALLY ENTERTAINING FLICKER FINDS (KUDOS OKINAWA-ONE-KANOBI),

...(WHILST PERHAPS SAVING THE ER, UM, 'SEXY, UNUSUAL' ONES THEREIN ON THE FLICKER STREAM FOR HIMSELF AND OTHER COOL FOLK like rich ass ones - AND PAINTING THESE FOR PRIVATE SALE ONLY - WE CAN ONLY HOPE, WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE)... i'm cool bob no really let me see the vip ones!

THEY TRAVEL TO GARGANTUAN GAUL-EREE AND SOME PUBLICIST RUSHES OUT SOME RELEASE BEFORE DASHING OFF TO A HIPSTER CLUB WHERE A REAL BOB FAN- TRUE HIPSTERS US ALL WOULD NOT BE CAUGHT DEAD AT

PASS THE LAPTOP - I NEED SOME UNUSUAL FLICKER SOME MORE, TURN UP BOB '91 GERMANY AND STOP BOGARTING

and yes tennessee - very good point about appropriation via wiki - fred's stages of fan confusion are what you're fighting with for the moment - don't worry it was a good point to help clarify the fog here - keep posting, no harm in that! - thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 05:38 GMT 
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Thank you for solving some more of this puzzle, Okinawa Soba!


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 07:33 GMT 

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Sometimes reading this board is like living in the 19th century.

What year did Duchamp paint the mustache on the Mona Lisa, 1920 or so?

I mean, honestly ...


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 08:10 GMT 

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rimbaud wrote:
Sometimes reading this board is like living in the 19th century.

What year did Duchamp paint the mustache on the Mona Lisa, 1920 or so?

I mean, honestly ...


The difference is (maybe) in the intention.
When Duchamp painted the LHOOQ, it was clear for everybody that it was Mona Lisa. Whith the Asian series, when you read the description, they let us believe that it was pure creation (ok... i know you don't create out of nothing). I doubt that even at the gallery, they know that he painted them for old photos. (I may be wrong of course.)

But ok, he probabely has the right to do that, and it doesn't change the result. It's not important where these paintings come from, the important thing is what they make you feel.

The other difference is that we are Dylan fans, and we would want our bob to be more creative and more righteous than anybody. He is often deceiving.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 13:26 GMT 
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Okinawa Soba wrote:
The catalog has about 100 pages. I would be curious to see ALL of the exhibition paintings. For the moment, seeing the amount of paintings based on my posted images in just the few Gallery shots offered, I suspect many more, and am left wondering if Dylan "raided" my easy-access Flickr pages and Asian Sets as a one-stop shopping spot for photos on which to base his paintings.

If so, and in his defense, all of the original Asian Photos I own and have posted are PUBLIC DOMAIN images. Their appearance on my photostream comes with automatic "Creative Commons" permission for anyone to use them for decorative or illustrative Blog and Website use, AND for conversion to artworks or other craft interpretations. Thousands of people have already done that, including many like Dylan who converted the photos of nice paintings.

However, while Dylan had broken no laws, he seems to have violated a common "social ethic" that for most of us in the graphics world involves giving credit for sources of inspiration, or direct credit for material upon which a "derivative work" is based. As I have not seen the catalog or any fine print contained therein (which might credit his inspirational source-images), I will cease comment on the nebulous concept of "ethics" and "uncredited appropriations"


German painter Gerhard Richter, the most expensive living painter, based many of his most famous paintings on found photographs. So did/do Luc Tuymans, Neo Rauch, Gary Hume and Peter Doig, some of the most important contemporary painters. Check them out via Google/Wikipedia. Belgian painter Luc Tuymans in particular applies many of the same techniques that Dylan uses. Several of Tuymans' paintings like the works in his "Congo", "Oberammergau" and "Der diagnostische Blick" series could easily be Dylan works.
I studied art history in university myself and I can tell you that the use of found photographs as source materials in painting is nothing new and has been going on for as long as there are photographs. Many famous works by Picasso, Francis Bacon, Richard Prince, Andy Warhol and Roy Lichtenstein (the list goes on and on) are based on found imagery. Gerhard Richter even published a book about his archive of source materials ("Atlas"). When researchers studied the late Francis Bacon's studio (which was a work of art in itself) they found it littered with photos from magazines and newspapers that Bacon used as sources.
Even before the invention of the photographic print, painters as early as the Renaissance used the photographic principle of the camera obscura to "copy" imagery onto the canvas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockney%E2 ... lco_thesis


Last edited by My Echo, My Shadow And Me on Sat September 24th, 2011, 13:42 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 13:34 GMT 
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^ Agreed. I was an Art major, too, so I know this is common.

However, the decent thing to do is acknowledge the inspiration (artist) for the piece and not pass it off as just a piece he painted from some subject he saw in Asia.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 13:54 GMT 
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BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
^ Agreed. I was an Art major, too, so I know this is common.

However, the decent thing to do is acknowledge the inspiration (artist) for the piece and not pass it off as just a piece he painted from some subject he saw in Asia.


Picasso never credited his sources, instead he said "Bad painters copy, good painters steal." ;-)

The Gagosian Gallery calls Dylan's new paintings "a visual reflection on his travels", they do not claim that he painted the works "from nature" in Asia.

"I don't paint nature. I am nature." (Jackson Pollock)


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 14:04 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
^ Agreed. I was an Art major, too, so I know this is common.

However, the decent thing to do is acknowledge the inspiration (artist) for the piece and not pass it off as just a piece he painted from some subject he saw in Asia.


Picasso never credited his sources, instead he said "Bad painters copy, good painters steal." ;-)

The Gagosian Gallery calls Dylan's new paintings "a visual reflection on his travels", they do not claim that he painted the works "from nature" in Asia.

"I don't paint nature. I am nature." (Jackson Pollock)

Thank you, I was trying to remember exactly who said that..... I knew it was an artist, but I didn't have it quite right so I couldn't find it on google...........

I find it too bad that so much time has been spent on the source of the works instead of the works themselves. But at least it has lead us to Okinawa Soba flicker thread, which just has a whole lot of good pictures on it......... think I will go and steal some for my screen saver....


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 14:12 GMT 
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Lily Rose wrote:
I find it too bad that so much time has been spent on the source of the works instead of the works themselves.


Exactly. The Asia paintings might actually be some of Dylan's best so far. They have a majesty to them and an inner quiet that you only find in great art.


Lily Rose wrote:
But at least it has lead us to Okinawa Soba flicker thread, which just has a whole lot of good pictures on it......... think I will go and steal some for my screen saver....


That's the spirit! ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 14:18 GMT 
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For GAD sakes, picasso's works don't look like the actual photos....it's an interpretation... these were copies of photos and marketed as stuff he saw in his travels (while on the computer) ... it's gotta say that in wicked small print somewhere...really it's gotta

plus when you go to a museum, there is always a blurb about the image and where stuff came from and blah blah blah.... the press release said it was from Bob's trips to asia

at Lily... didn't bob say something like that about writers? HA! he's so original And it's not a visual reflection on his travels.... he didn't see most of that stuff on his travels....

If I were having an art exhibition and I went to Australia to do a Great White Shark dive and then made the Australia Series of a bunch of Koala Bears how is that a visual reflection of my trip???


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 14:30 GMT 
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Location: in the land where dreams are made....
The only thing that we know for sure is that this very, very busy man has found time to do a whole series of wonderful Asian based paintings.......... If I was in NYC I would be there for sure, but since I am not, I will be sitting with a cup (or two) or tea for many long hours looking at the catalogue.

Except for maybe restless, who is in NYC and has been to the museum we don't know what is there. We also don't know what is in the catalogue for sure.......... we have been lucky enough to see some of the painting.....but then as with all artist's works, the on-line is no where near as good as seeing the real thing.

As to the quote with Dylan.... I am almost sure it was in an interview.... the interviewer asked if he stole a little for his songs.... and his answer was ... you have to be good to steal a little, you have to be really good to steal a lot............ :wink:

And lastly to Milkcow..... you don't think he can sing..... he steals everything he writes... and now the most important thing about his artwork is that he steals his source.... so I have a question for you:

If you don't like Bob Dylan what are you doing here!?!?!?!? :?


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 15:07 GMT 
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I have some questions for you, Lily
Where did I say he steals EVERYTHING he writes? He does steal lyrics. It's PROVEN and NOT by me. I didn´t say he steals his sources for his artwork. I said he did for the Asia series...and I agree he might have for Brazil if people want to do the research.

What is it I like best about Bob? It's the same answer I give anyone who asks me here or in person....

Your question that baffled me the MOST is the question about his voice... :lol:

Where did I say I don't think he can sing?

written yesterday before you posted this nonsense

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63622&p=998950#p998950


So, anyway, who the hell are you to question why I am here? In no way have I tried to blast you for your opinion of Bob's art, but since we oppose you think you have the right to do so to me. You're wrong; you don't. He took the images and never credited the sources as we know. It was marketed as a reflection of his trip and it wasn't. You have your opinion and I have mine. Be respectful of that.


Last edited by Milkcow on Sat September 24th, 2011, 15:32 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 15:12 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
BostonAreaBobFan wrote:
^ Agreed. I was an Art major, too, so I know this is common.

However, the decent thing to do is acknowledge the inspiration (artist) for the piece and not pass it off as just a piece he painted from some subject he saw in Asia.


The Gagosian Gallery calls Dylan's new paintings "a visual reflection on his travels", they do not claim that he painted the works "from nature" in Asia.


Semantics, me thinks.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 16:28 GMT 
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Is anybody around here familiar with the movie "In The Mood For Love"? I've had two hints that the "Kitchenette" painting is sourced from it. Can anyone come up with a still or scene photo?


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 16:32 GMT 

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Inspired by this discussion I took up an old idea to see if I could find a source photograph for one of my favourite paintings from the Brazil Series exhibition we had here in Denmark. I just found it is here:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/ ... ariley.jpg

Source photograph of the Favela Broncos painting.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 16:40 GMT 
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Thanks for that.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 16:41 GMT 

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I am going to go today. It's free to get in right?


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 17:14 GMT 

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I think the "borrowing" issue in his art is pretty much the same thing he has always done in some of his music. He takes an old tune and adds new words or takes old words and puts them to his tune. He seems to be the master of treading a thin line of legality.

The artwork looks terrific. I don't know where he gets all the time for all his output - pretty amazing. And supposedly he is also working in metal sculpture.

He is living proof of that great line by Marshall McLuhan that I love - "Art is anything you can get away with".


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 17:31 GMT 
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@Lily

MisterClive wrote:
Inspired by this discussion I took up an old idea to see if I could find a source photograph for one of my favourite paintings from the Brazil Series exhibition we had here in Denmark. I just found it is here:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b306/ ... ariley.jpg

Source photograph of the Favela Broncos painting.


:wink:
Thanks Mr Clive... you just proved another point.... oh, I don't think this photo was morally credited either. It isn't in my book, that's for sure. I just read the description in the back of the book about this painting... it goes on and on about the scenery and the little brook and never mentions the actual photograph. hmm The book just goes on and on about how the image is and what was captured more so than how it was painted technique wise.... The images are NOT his ideas...but the book makes you think that. That is my whole problem with these 2 series. I actually like the Drawn Blank sketches better than anything. They are original and so are the ideas. I find painting the photographs identically to the photos is just boring and it's a faster way to get out some product to make some money.

I have one HUGE question...there is a picture in the Brazil Series of a woman sitting spread eagle in all her glory.... I doubt Bob saw that in person during his trips to Brazil.... does anyone else besides me think it's from his secret Brazilian porn stash? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 18:00 GMT 

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Higher resolution of the Favela Villa Broncos photograph here:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/fi ... -2-1-l.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 19:00 GMT 
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Wow.... I don't want to get into this before I'm done with writing about the Asia Series, but I'll really have to look into the Brazil works again afterwards.


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 19:39 GMT 

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Thought Brazil would be lifted from photos too. How was that series pitched to us again...
Pants


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 20:08 GMT 
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MY CATALOG JUST ARRIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat September 24th, 2011, 20:10 GMT 
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OOHH IT'S HARD COVER... I WANT THE OTHER 3


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