Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Wed April 25th, 2018, 10:51 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 02:03 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 16th, 2008, 21:48 GMT
Posts: 2871
Location: Connecticut
What a modern day giant this one is! Aside from the lyrics it's so damn catchy. Another one The MEZ just loves. Most must be fans of this one eh? Any dates, posts, comments. TTL3 version is very good. MEZ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 07:18 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun April 27th, 2008, 15:45 GMT
Posts: 1629
Location: Ireland
Love this track. Great lyrics with a vocal performance to match. It's all good :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 07:36 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun July 22nd, 2007, 10:29 GMT
Posts: 45
What a sexy post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 11:34 GMT 

Joined: Fri March 6th, 2009, 01:56 GMT
Posts: 1322
Watched Wonder Boys for the first time yesterday.

Man, oh man what a tune.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 11:40 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 31st, 2007, 04:53 GMT
Posts: 719
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
conal0102 wrote:
Watched Wonder Boys for the first time yesterday.


Is it easily available? I'll be travelling to the US next week and would like to find a copy as I've never seen it. As far as I know, it never made it to this side of the Pacific.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 11:59 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue September 11th, 2007, 10:00 GMT
Posts: 6321
Location: 3650 miles east of Duquesne.
The soundtrack album is SUPERB

Track Listings
1. Things Have Changed - Bob Dylan
2. A Child's Claim To Fame - Buffalo Springfield
3. No Regrets - Tom Rush
4. Old Man - Neil Young
5. Shooting Star - Bob Dylan
6. Reason To Believe - Tim Hardin
7. Need Your Love So Bad - Little Willie John
8. Not Dark Yet - Bob Dylan
9. Slip Away - Clarence Carter
10. Waiting For A Miracle - Leonard Cohen
11. Buckets Of Rain - Bob Dylan
12. Watching The Wheels - John Lennon
13. Philosopher's Stone - Van Morrison


Couple of quid on Amazon!

To me THC, is the natural aged corollary to Times They Are A Changin, the old man's retort to the young man's idealism!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 12:16 GMT 

Joined: Tue July 21st, 2009, 11:36 GMT
Posts: 31
There was a phase betwixt Time Out Of Mind up to Modern Times where his lyrics were better than anyhing he's done for throw away brilliance. It was a remarkably fruitful time. All catchy and quotable. It beats the 60's trilogy for wisdom and Things Have Changed is the perfect example of that.
"I've been walking twenty miles of bad road
If the bible is right the world will explode
I've been trying to get as far from myself as I possibly can"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 12:43 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24th, 2007, 11:23 GMT
Posts: 3716
Location: Just like you, I'm tangled up in blue
stephenoxford wrote:
The soundtrack album is SUPERB

Track Listings
1. Things Have Changed - Bob Dylan
2. A Child's Claim To Fame - Buffalo Springfield
3. No Regrets - Tom Rush
4. Old Man - Neil Young
5. Shooting Star - Bob Dylan
6. Reason To Believe - Tim Hardin
7. Need Your Love So Bad - Little Willie John
8. Not Dark Yet - Bob Dylan
9. Slip Away - Clarence Carter
10. Waiting For A Miracle - Leonard Cohen
11. Buckets Of Rain - Bob Dylan
12. Watching The Wheels - John Lennon
13. Philosopher's Stone - Van Morrison


Couple of quid on Amazon!

To me THC, is the natural aged corollary to Times They Are A Changin, the old man's retort to the young man's idealism!


'I was so much younger then, I'm older than that now' :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 15:00 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 15th, 2009, 02:35 GMT
Posts: 859
Loved the song as soon as I heard it! Very catchy rhythm, very apt words. The perfect Old Man's song. The opening verse is superb, so rich in potential meanings. I love the understatement of the chorus: I used to care but - things have changed. How true, buddy, how true.

That's forty miles of bad road - I wonder if he's referring to the years of his career there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 15:38 GMT 

Joined: Tue March 31st, 2009, 22:29 GMT
Posts: 137
I think when push comes to shove, this may be my favorite Dylan song ever. It was one of the songs that in the very beginning, back when I was in High School, got my into Mr. D (along with Shelter From the Storm and Hurricane). I remember playing it for my Dad, who at the time was not a very big Bob Dylan fan, and hearing him comment on how generic it sounded-- not the words or singing, but the simple, repetitive structure. I was reminded of this when I read an article (which I think I found here) by the recording engineer, who after recording the song figured it'd be handed off to someone like Daniel Lanois, but of course instead it was released essentially 'as is.'

Not long ago I was thinking why exactly I like Bob Dylan's work so much. Two things struck me about his songs: first, he excels at writing songs that are at once very specific and grounded while still being overtly open-ended and flexible in meaning, and second, his world outlook is fundamentally bleak while still insisting that the struggle to do better and to transcend ourselves is not in vein. As a friend of mine once said, to have the blues, you gotta think that there is a place, somewhere, where you won't have the blues.

The song presents itself as a modern day Job story, but told from within the point that Job has simply given up...

Some things are too hot to touch
The human mind can only stand so much
You can't win with a losing hand

The narrator is drifting, in a perpetual state of displacement, uncomfortable with the people around him, the place he's in, and his own skin.

The observational nature of the third line ("There's a woman on my lap and she's drinking champagne"), is highly poignant: sitting on a lover's lap and sipping champagne is sexy and celebratory, but that is not something the narrator partakes in. Even though his body is involved in the tableau, his mind is elsewhere and can only observe it in the most perfunctory way. This image and relationship is expanded upon later in the song with the stunning line "I'm in love with a woman who don't even appeal to me." Again the narrator is going through feelings and social actions ("in love") without actually feeling it.

Back to the first verse though, while the woman is on his lap, the narrator is "looking up" into the skies. This I think gets to the irony of the song (and lots of Dylan's songs): the song is essentially a litany of ugliness and disconnectedness, yet in the end:

Mr. Jinx and Miss Lucy, they jumped in the lake
I'm not that eager to make a mistake.

Well, why not? What's the point? Throughout the song, the sense of foreboding doom and the meaninglessness of life is apparent, but it never drowns the hope, or what is essentially Faith. That line, about not making a mistake, always reminds me of this line:

"None of them along the line know what any of it is worth."

To suggest that through the moral and spiritual debasement of concubines, slaves, "Businessmen" reaping your spoils, and "plowmen" destroying your earth, to suggest that through all that there is some "worth," is the beauty of these songs. They insist on a leap of Faith, they insist that despite the misery and loss, "I know the mercy of God must be near."

Really, Job has never given up. His (the narrator's) hope is trampled upon, pain is found to be inevitable and inescapable, "All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie," yet the moral center remains, the idea of good and evil, remains, and fundamentally Faith remains.

It's this theme in Dylan which has led me never to see the Gospel albums as all that separate or apart from the rest of his work. The work before and after both seem to embrace, even if their bleakest and wildest, a fundamental Faith. To write Things Have Changed, is to say that things are bad, but they were once good, and that means that they could again be good. Is that change "change since the womb?" or change as the narrator ages?

Sorry this is really rambling. Hope it made a little sense.

Regardless, f-ing awesome song. Always a treat to here live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 16:42 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue January 27th, 2009, 21:05 GMT
Posts: 512
Location: England.
Easily in my Top 5 Dylan songs...

A masterpiece and one of his best lyrics...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 17:35 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24th, 2007, 11:23 GMT
Posts: 3716
Location: Just like you, I'm tangled up in blue
AndrewThomas...that made lots of sense. Thanks for so efficiently articulating thoughts that have been swirling around my head too. I couldn't possibly have managed to do that so well myself. You really put down in words my feelings about Dylan's body of work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 17:39 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri October 24th, 2008, 17:46 GMT
Posts: 5700
Location: On the road less traveled
Andrew, outstanding post. I especially like this specific quotation, but the entire post was terrific.

AndrewThomas wrote:
...to have the blues, you gotta think that there is a place, somewhere, where you won't have the blues.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 19:45 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 7th, 2009, 23:08 GMT
Posts: 295
Location: Ohio
AndrewThomas,

Thank you for what is easily the best post I have ever seen on these boards. Some people get it, some people don't, and you, my friend, get it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 19:52 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 31st, 2007, 04:53 GMT
Posts: 719
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Ditto the last few comments. Excellent exposition.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 21:55 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 21st, 2005, 19:33 GMT
Posts: 758
Location: savannah state
Cropduster wrote:
Easily in my Top 5 Dylan songs...

A masterpiece and one of his best lyrics...


Love the song yet can't put it in my top 25.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 2nd, 2009, 22:16 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun July 23rd, 2006, 02:55 GMT
Posts: 1412
Location: Noway, Missery
The first time I heard it it brought a smile on my face.
I'm not shure if the lyricks is that good
but everything else
is superb :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 01:41 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 15th, 2009, 02:35 GMT
Posts: 859
AndrewThomas wrote:
Really, Job has never given up. His (the narrator's) hope is trampled upon, pain is found to be inevitable and inescapable, "All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie," yet the moral center remains, the idea of good and evil, remains, and fundamentally Faith remains.

It's this theme in Dylan which has led me never to see the Gospel albums as all that separate or apart from the rest of his work. The work before and after both seem to embrace, even if their bleakest and wildest, a fundamental Faith. To write Things Have Changed, is to say that things are bad, but they were once good, and that means that they could again be good. Is that change "change since the womb?" or change as the narrator ages?

Awsome post, AndrewThomas! I think you've put your finger right on it especially here in the bit I've quoted. That awareness of being in a world of misery (a fallen world, indeed!) beyond reach of redeption yet never without hope - that, to me, is the essence of Dylan!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 01:49 GMT 

Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 04:15 GMT
Posts: 1516
Location: City of Angels
AndrewThomas wrote:

The observational nature of the third line ("There's a woman on my lap and she's drinking champagne"), is highly poignant: sitting on a lover's lap and sipping champagne is sexy and celebratory, but that is not something the narrator partakes in. Even though his body is involved in the tableau, his mind is elsewhere and can only observe it in the most perfunctory way. This image and relationship is expanded upon later in the song with the stunning line "I'm in love with a woman who don't even appeal to me." Again the narrator is going through feelings and social actions ("in love") without actually feeling it.



Very cool observation here. That feeling of detachment as observational.
However, I do think there is a good deal of paranoia that runs throughout the song that reinforces your Job comparison, but also paints him as 'Job as schizophrenic'. Some examples:
The description of the woman on his lap alludes to it to a degree.
"Got white skin, got assassin's eyes"
That description of the woman for me justifies the singer's xenophobic tendencies. What does her white skin mean? And her assassin's eyes gives to the idea that she (or any woman) is NOT to be trusted.

Also i think the song is about trying to escape reality through earthly ways even though he knows it's hopeless.
The second verse paints the idea that the singer is disgusted with the current place he's in and thinks Hollywood is more his style, a town of false dreams and hopes. The place he's in is dead, stagnant, hopeless, a place to die, another reason to be paranoid.
"I'm trying to get as far away from myself as I can."

"Standing on the gallow with my head in a noose."

And with each verse, the chorus that follows traps the singer and listener into the song's own 'locked in tight' view on reality.
'People are crazy, times are strange.'
It's not the world that's changed, but his care for it. Though obviously within the world of the song, that's also not quite true.

"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

I think he cares a good deal, but has been betrayed somewhere along the way and it's skewed his view.
I also wonder about Mr. Jinx and Ms. Lucy. Why is jumping in a lake a mistake? Is it because they're a couple in love and the singer can't embark in something personal anymore because he's too detached to bother or is a relationship too real?
'I'm in love with a woman that don't even appeal to me.'
The song's singer sees things in generalities.

'People are crazy, times are strange.'

And once you go there, it all becomes one big nightmare.
It reminds me most of Ballad of a Thin Man', in that both paint a picture of a very scary world Mr. Dylan must live in some of the time.
I think the song is the antithesis of Times They Are A Changin. Where that song invites, this song alienates.
The perfect song to begin Bob's millennium.

Mez wrote:
TTL3 version is very good. MEZ


No offense Mez, but actually I don't like it. I think it's the worst pick of the collection. Another example of Bob selecting the worst versions of his live repertoire. The song didn't really pick up live til the Fall tour of 2000 after he had been doing it for a while and morphed it gradually into more of a chill rocker as opposed to the slithery shuffle of the studio which just didn't translate live IMO.
Here's a fantastic one from Paris:

October 3 2000
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0a8kco

A slightly faster one from Birmingham that year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sgpDXh- ... annel_page

And an amazing cover by a Greek band called 'Strange World' that manages to capture the song perfectly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3hQwier ... annel_page:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 01:58 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 16th, 2008, 21:48 GMT
Posts: 2871
Location: Connecticut
Killer audio version Marker Thanks MEZ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 02:24 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Thu November 4th, 2004, 18:54 GMT
Posts: 8570
Location: NYC
This is the song that convinced me I no longer cared much about Bob Dylan and could be content without listening to him more than once or twice a year. I didn't care much for the movie, either.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 02:46 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 31st, 2007, 04:53 GMT
Posts: 719
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
harmonica albert wrote:
This is the song that convinced me I no longer cared much about Bob Dylan and could be content without listening to him more than once or twice a year. I didn't care much for the movie, either.


And that also explains the nearly 5000 posts you've made on a Dylan discussion forum. Now I really have to see that movie. :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 02:48 GMT 

Joined: Mon July 6th, 2009, 21:29 GMT
Posts: 1218
Yeah, I never understood the great praise that this song seems to receive (not just here, either).

He has sunk his teeth into it live from time to time, but the song itself is pretty lukewarm. Generic, faceless, arbitrary, forgettable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 02:53 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 17020
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
CShoe wrote:
Yeah, I never understood the great praise that this song seems to receive (not just here, either).

He has sunk his teeth into it live from time to time, but the song itself is pretty lukewarm. Generic, faceless, arbitrary, forgettable.



Could the mods let me know if it's against the rules to post a link to a picture of a donkey?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu September 3rd, 2009, 03:06 GMT 

Joined: Thu August 30th, 2007, 22:44 GMT
Posts: 3974
It is a strong song and a stronger performance, but it is a little bit overrated. I would not class it as among his best, but definitely on the high side of average. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it. AndrewThomas makes some insightful observations.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group