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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 12:41 GMT 
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Joined: Tue June 7th, 2005, 18:01 GMT
Posts: 9580
Location: Greenwich meridian
RichardW wrote:
First - can I say how good it is to see Eddie posting again.


Thanks for the kind words, Richard.

3LM has explained to me via PM that the banning was caused by a confusion over IP addresses. It's my understanding (via ATU) that much the same applies to the mistake over NashvilleSkyGirl. Sometimes you've just got to take these technological mishaps on the chin. C'est la vie, eh? Anyway, it's nice to be back.

I've always thought it a shame that you and someraven don't post here more often, but I realise that- unlike the merry shift-working troglodytes on the London Underground- you two actually have a life outside the virtual realm of message boards. And good luck to you!

Thanks again, Richard.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 13:23 GMT 
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Location: Mo i Rana, Norway
RichardW wrote:
I really like Code Examiners suggestion that when they are acting as a Moderator, they post as "Moderator". This would de-personalise necessary actions that moderators have to take...


Although this sounds good, the disadvantages would be that it will be hard for the mods to find out who did what, in case something has to be reevaluated. Also, it would mean the mods would have to log in and out of different identities, depending on what they wanted to do.

So, sorry, not practical!

--
Mad Cow is now hard at work adjusting the Terms based on your feedback. We thank those who have indicated a willingness to moderate, and will try to put together the puzzle.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 13:49 GMT 
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Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 14311
Location: I was looking for a job and then I found a job and...
Thanks to karlerik for all that expecting rain has given me for many years now...simply amazing--mods too.

And since no one commented on tompaine's posts...thanks across the board to you, lilraven and the community as a whole.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:05 GMT 
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Location: boring gray cold france
karlerik wrote:
Mad Cow is now hard at work adjusting the Terms based on your feedback. We thank those who have indicated a willingness to moderate, and will try to put together the puzzle.


YAY !!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Can I ask when the forums are likely to be open again ?


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 Post subject: Copyright
PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:06 GMT 
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Joined: Wed April 11th, 2007, 01:22 GMT
Posts: 945
Location: East Coast USA
Eddie wrote:
...the Copyright on the many personal poems Serafina Magdelena has posted on the "Non-Bob Dylan lyrics" thread now devolves to ER, rather than remaining with the author?


Eddie - I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV or the internet for that matter. However, I do know a few things about copyright in the United States.

If anyone posts anything original on the internet and does not use appropriate copyright language for their country, the material can be considered Public Domain.

For example, some original doggerel of mine:

"My poetry rivals Shakespeare's
Until you use garden shears"

If posted just like this, even though I am the poster, it becomes public domain. But, after the poem, if I add:

©2009 by My Real Name. All Rights Reserved.
No portion of this poem may be used without permission from My Real Name.

It become protected. Enforcement is a whole other issue. The moral: Writer/Poster beware.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:10 GMT 
*Senior Contributor*

Joined: Sun September 25th, 2005, 23:45 GMT
Posts: 8064
Location: Asylum
karlerik wrote:
RichardW wrote:
I really like Code Examiners suggestion that when they are acting as a Moderator, they post as "Moderator". This would de-personalise necessary actions that moderators have to take...


Although this sounds good, the disadvantages would be that it will be hard for the mods to find out who did what, in case something has to be reevaluated. Also, it would mean the mods would have to log in and out of different identities, depending on what they wanted to do.

So, sorry, not practical!



They could be known as Moderator 01, Moderator 02, Moderator 03, Moderator 04, Moderator 05, Moderator 06, Moderator 07, Moderator 08, Moderator 09, Moderator 10, Moderator 11... etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

I would also like a luxury gift, too... as a reward... the luxurier the better... thanking you in advance.

It is also great to see Eddie back in the groove... I had a hunch that he had been banned because of his union activities... bringing the Tube and thus London to a complete standstill... forcing good, honest, christian, tax-paying folk into doing things like 'walking'... welcome back, comrade!


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:13 GMT 
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Posts: 7051
RichardW wrote:
I really like Code Examiners suggestion that when they are acting as a Moderator, they post as "Moderator". This would de-personalise necessary actions that moderators have to take...


I came up with the same idea last week and posted it in the moderator forum. I called it "The Enforcer" :lol: (hoping someone would come up with a better name). A new virtual moderator who's only forum presence is to enforce the written rules.

But I can see that it's not a good idea. It would be a pain in the butt to manage and people would regard it as a Darth Vader type of thing. Also, it would force the mods to do something that would require the Enforcer to ban them - posting under multiple user names! Total hypocrisy. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:22 GMT 
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Claudette wrote:
Honestly, there is something to be said for no private messaging abilities.


There is something to be said for no private messaging abilities but, on the whole, I think they should be retained. However, I think it imperative that there is some reference to PM etiquette in the New Terms of Use.

Firstly and most obviously, one would hope the same standards of courtesy towards fellow ERers would be maintained wherever you are posting - privately or in the general forums.

Secondly, any references to the content of private messages (sent or recieved) in the general forums should be greeted with a warning or deleted by the moderators.

Finally, the posting of the content of private messages in the general forums for whatever reason, either sent or recieved, should lead to a summary (albeit temporary) ban.

These, I hasten to add, are merely my thoughts and it is up to the framers of the new terms of use how they see fit to proceed.


Last edited by charlesdarwin on Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:26 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:24 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 2419
Location: Manchester UK
Wow, quoted by Karl-Erik and 3LM in one thread!

I demand immediate and premature titanium status.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:29 GMT 
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Joined: Sun September 25th, 2005, 23:45 GMT
Posts: 8064
Location: Asylum
Once the new 'terms of use' are sorted and everything is back up and running will there be any sort of compensation paid to those who have suffered traumatic stress through the boards being down for such a long time... surely, this must have had infringed my human rights in some way... I have been distraught... I think it only right that I receive some sort of financial payment to help me feel less distraught... who do I send my large claim to?


Last edited by thickboy on Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:31 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:30 GMT 
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Joined: Tue June 7th, 2005, 18:01 GMT
Posts: 9580
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thickboy wrote:
It is also great to see Eddie back in the groove... I had a hunch that he had been banned because of his union activities... bringing the Tube and thus London to a complete standstill... forcing good, honest, christian, tax-paying folk into doing things like 'walking'... welcome back, comrade!


If I didn't already know that the issuing of "threats" contravenes both the spirit and the letter of the new regulations, I'd be very tempted to say:

"Just be careful, mate. Come the Revolution, you're on the list..." :|


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:48 GMT 
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Joined: Wed October 26th, 2005, 16:21 GMT
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The ultimate fix to this whole thing is to successfully put together a tight team of well-chosen moderators who use their discretion and make group decisions. Not just a two person tag-team trying their hardest to keep the place under control by the seat of their pants (as it has been for the past year since I started - before that only one person!). This will be more effective than a bunch of super-strict rules.

And this is exactly what's going to happen. We'll have our team together soon, Mad Cow will get those rules ironed out. The new team will give input on the new rules too - we can always update things if they're not working. The new team will also review past decisions. Hopefully this whole episode has brought the good people who really love this place together. Their support is essential for Expectingrain.com's survival as GREAT furum.

I see light at the end of the tunnel.

Image


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 14:58 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 2419
Location: Manchester UK
thickboy wrote:
Once the new 'terms of use' are sorted and everything is back up and running will there be any sort of compensation paid to those who have suffered traumatic stress through the boards being down for such a long time... surely, this must have had infringed my human rights in some way... I have been distraught... I think it only right that I receive some sort of financial payment to help me feel less distraught... who do I send my large claim to?

I feel this is a very dangerous question as it seeks to apportion blame in an unhelpful way. Thickboy - I think you should think deeply about the good of the community, and not simply about monetary compensation

I've been writing a song on the very subject of the futility of allocating blame. It's called Only "A Prawn In Their Game" and it goes like this:

Who brought down ER?
Why an' what's the reason for?


"Not us," says the posters,
Whose rage filled the forum loud.
"It's too bad it came down that night
But we just like to see a fight.
We didn't mean for it to get locked,
We just wanted the mod to knock,
There ain't nothing wrong in that.
It wasn't us that made ER fall.
No, you can't blame us at all."

Who brought down ER?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I," says the mod’rator,
"Don't point your third-leg at me.
I could've stopped it in off-topic
An' maybe kept us from this fate,
But the posters would've booed, I'm sure,
At not gettin' their money's worth.
It's too bad ER had to go,
But there was a pressure on me too, you know.
It wasn't me that made ER fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who brought down ER?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the multiple address
Posting on ATU.
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell,
I always thought that ER was well.
It's too bad for everyone ER's dead,
But if it was sick, you should've said.
It wasn't me that made ER fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who brought down ER?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the late arrival,
With his parody in his hand.
"It wasn't me that brought it down,
My hands typed insult none.
I didn't commit no ugly sin,
Anyway, I put no money in.
It wasn't me that made ER fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who brought down ER?
Why an' what's the reason for?

@ Talentless hack 2009


I think I need a few more verses. Anyone know a suitable tune?


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:06 GMT 
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Posts: 397
Location: Mo i Rana, Norway
Draft 1 wrote:
Here is our draft for the new Terms of Use. Views and suggestions are welcome.

However, to avoid pages up and down full of nothingness, we ask that you ONLY post if you have anything NEW and relevant to bring to the table. Anything irrelevant will be removed without warning at the discretion of the administration/moderators.


Terms of Use
June 17th 2009 (see June 20th revision below!)

Expectingrain.com (ER) wishes to be considered a serious website. In order to participate you will therefore have to accept our Terms of Use to be a member of the forums (found at expectingrain.com/discussions). We want this to be a resource and a good place to be for all Dylan fans, old and new. If you do not wish to comply with the Terms of Use as follows, please do not register with the ER forums.

The ER website is dedicated to Bob Dylan. If you are not a fan of Bob Dylan, you will most likely not visit here. When posting, we require that you are respectful of Bob Dylan's personal life and his family. Do not engage in discussions you would not be happy discussing with Mr. Dylan over a cup of coffee.

The most important thing is to act courteously towards your fellow members. Remember that being part of ER is a privilege, not a right!

§1 Good manners are required
§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
§1.3 SPAM, multilevel marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to administrator.
§1.6 Report inappropriate posts

§2 How to use the ER forums
§2.1 Only one account permitted
§2.2 Search first, ask later.
§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
§2.4 Post in the correct forum
§2.5 Use proper language and punctuation
§2.6 Posts should have meaning
§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
§2.8 Signatures should not be invasive
§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive
§2.10 Use quoting carefully


§1 Good manners are required
Personal attacks, slander, public humiliation, swearing, abusive language and other offensive expressions are not permitted. ER has a zero tolerance level for slander, abuse and generally bad behaviour.

§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
Exchange of, or requests for exchanges of illegally copied materials, including but not limited to published music and software, is not permitted. Linking to websites that host or relay illegally made copies is not permitted.

§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
ER should be safe for everyone. Pornographic and provocative content will be immediately deleted.

§1.3 SPAM, multi-level marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
Marketing of commercial products or services, including but not limited to hidden advertising and multilevel marketing, is not permitted unless an agreement is in place with the website administrator. Other unwanted information, known as spam, is also not permitted. So-called ”affiliate” links where the link poster receives money, points, or other benefits when the links are clicked are not permitted in the ER forums without it being explicitly explained that the poster will receive benefits.

ER reserves the right to remove any information perceived to not be in accordance with this rule. ER has a zero tolerance level for spam and commercial marketing that has not been cleared with an administrator.

§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
Moderators/administrators are present in the forums to ensure order and to correct unwanted behaviour. They are here to help you and the forum as a whole. Any correction or reprimand made by a moderator or administrator should be taken into account immediately. Moderating comments should under no circumstance be altered.

§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to the administration
Moderators are people like you, but they have agreed to help more actively in keeping order in the forums. They will not be available 100% of the time, but will do their best to respond to questions and complaints.

Any complaints about how moderators execute their job should be directed to an administrator via e-mail to discussions@expectingrain.com. Complaints regarding moderators or any other users should under no circumstance be discussed in the forums – this should be resolved with an administrator.

§1.6 Report inappropriate posts
Individual posts may be reported using the red exclamation mark button included in every post. The moderators will see the report and deal with it as they see fit.


§2 How to use the ER forums

§2.1 Only one account permitted
Do not register a new account if you already have one. Multiple accounts may be deleted without warning.

§2.2 Search first, ask later
Always check if there is an already existing thread regarding the topic you wish to discuss.

§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
Always provide a descriptive title for any new thread you start. This will ensure you attract the right audience; it will also keep the forums neat and intelligible, and makes searching easier. Examples of titles not to use are ”Wow!!!!” or ”Why?”. If you are asking a question, use a question with a question mark in the title – not the opposite, which might deceive the reader.

§2.4 Post in the correct forum
All threads should be posted in the correct forum. Every user has a responsibility to place threads correctly, to help make the forums easily navigable.

§2.5 Use proper language and punctuation
Writing properly is important. The use of caps, exclamation marks and language should all be within reason. Excessive use of caps, exclamation marks, or ”chat” in the ER forums is language unsought.

§2.6 Posts should have meaning
Do not post if you have nothing to contribute with. Posts should be aimed at improving our collective knowledge and well-being. Also, any post should be relevant to the thread it is posted to.

§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
Never post the same thread in multiple forums. Double posting (posting twice in succession to oneself) should not occur. Edit your previous post if you have something you wish to add. The only exception to this is if you are reviving an old thread where you have new information. You can then add new information as a new post. A thread is ”old” when it has been inactive for one week.

§2.8 Signatures should not be invasive
You may add a signature to each post you make. However, your signature should not be unnecessarily space-demanding, nor should it include images that may be offensive or invasive. Remember; the signature is repeated every single time you post.

§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive or invasive
Avatars that are offensive, animated, pornographic, racist or violent will be deleted. Avatars mimicking those of the moderators or administrators will be deleted without warning.

§2.10 Use quoting carefully
Quoting should only be used if it is absolutely necessary to repeat what someone else said in order to understand your post. Never quote when you are replying to the last post made to a thread. You should always edit your quote, so that only the portion you are referring to is used. Avoid quoting pictures; there is no need to enforce more scrolling that necessary.


Specific Category Guidelines
Each Category has a different purpose. Here is a brief introduction:

Bob Dylan - Strictly dedicated to topics on Bob Dylan himself; General Discussion, Theme Time Radio Hour, and Bob Dylan Tour.

Downloads - Requests, links and discussions related to Rare Dylan Recordings each have their separate forums. Make sure you post in the right one - read the descriptions. And remember: No Copyrighted material allowed!

Annex - This is the place for "everything else" and has a less formal atmosphere. However, the rules above still apply! No personal attacks accepted (this means both members, artists, presidents, your neighbour etc...). Sarcasm, spite, slander, trolling, pouring fuel on a fire - not permitted.

Information & Assistance - Self explanatory?


Consequences of not abiding by the rules
Choosing not to abide by the ER forum rules may lead to you being permanently excluded from the forums.

Breaking the rules will entail warnings – should you choose not to take these warnings into account, you will first be banned for a short period. Warnings will always be made by administrators or moderators using PM or e-mail.

Copyright
By posting to the ER forums you acknowledge the copyright of all materials in this website – besides external companies logos and trademarks – belongs to ER. Upon posting in the forums you transfer the perdurable and exclusive right for ER to, without compensation, use and edit your forum posts.


-----------------------------------------

Terms of Use
June 20th 2009

Expectingrain.com (ER) wishes to be considered a responsible website. In order to participate you will therefore have to accept our Terms of Use to be a member of the forums (found at expectingrain.com/discussions). We want this to be a resource and a good place to be for all those interested in Dylan's work. If you do not wish to comply with the Terms of Use as follows, please do not register with the ER forums.

The ER website is dedicated to Bob Dylan. If you are not interested in Bob Dylan, you will most likely not visit here. When posting, we require that you are respectful of Bob Dylan's personal life and his family. Do not engage in discussions you would not be happy to have Mr. Dylan listen in on. You never know.

The most important thing is to act courteously towards your fellow members. Remember that being part of ER is a privilege, not a right!

§1 Good manners are required
§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
§1.3 Spam, multilevel marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to administrator.
§1.6 Report inappropriate posts

§2 How to use the ER forums
§2.1 Only one account permitted
§2.2 Search first, ask later.
§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
§2.4 Post in the correct forum
§2.5 Use coherent language and punctuation
§2.6 Posts should have purpose
§2.7 Double posting or bumping is not allowed
§2.8 Signatures (disabled)
§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive
§2.10 Use quoting carefully



§1 Good manners are required
Personal attacks, slander, public humiliation, ridicule, swearing, abusive language and other offensive expressions are not permitted. ER has a zero tolerance level for slander, abuse and generally bad behaviour.

§1.1 Illegally copied materials are not permitted
Exchange of, or requests for exchanges of illegally copied materials, including but not limited to published music and software, is not permitted. Linking to websites that host or relay illegally made copies is not permitted.

§1.2 Pornographic or provocative content is not permitted
ER should be safe for everyone. Pornographic and provocative content will be immediately deleted.

§1.3 Spam, multi-level marketing, affiliate links etc. are not permitted
Marketing of commercial products or services, including but not limited to hidden advertising and multilevel marketing, is not permitted unless an agreement is in place with the website administrator. Other unwanted information, known as spam, is also not permitted. So-called ”affiliate” links where the link poster receives money, points, or other benefits when the links are clicked are not permitted in the ER forums without it being explicitly explained that the poster will receive benefits.

ER reserves the right to remove any information perceived to not be in accordance with this rule. ER has a zero tolerance level for spam and commercial marketing that has not been cleared with an administrator.

§1.4 Comply with moderators/administrators
Moderators/administrators are present in the forums to ensure order and to correct unwanted behaviour. They are here to help you and the forum as a whole. Any correction or reprimand made by a moderator or administrator should be taken into account immediately. Moderating comments should under no circumstance be altered.

§1.5 Complaints regarding moderators, other users etc. should be directed to the administration
Moderators are people like you, but they have agreed to help more actively in keeping order in the forums. They will not be available 100% of the time, but will do their best to respond to questions and complaints.

Any complaints about how moderators execute their job should be directed to an administrator via e-mail to discussions@expectingrain.com. Complaints regarding moderators or any other users should under no circumstance be discussed in the forums – this should be resolved with an administrator.

§1.6 Report inappropriate posts
Individual posts may be reported using the red exclamation mark button included in every post. The moderators will see the report and deal with it as they see fit.


§2 How to use the ER forums

§2.1 Only one account permitted
Do not register a new account if you already have one. Multiple accounts are deleted without warning.

§2.2 Search first, ask later
Always check if there is an already existing thread regarding the topic you wish to discuss.

§2.3 Always use titles descriptive of content for new threads
Always provide a descriptive title for any new thread you start. This will ensure you attract the right audience; it will also keep the forums neat and intelligible, and makes searching easier. Examples of titles not to use are ”Wow!!!!” or ”Why?”. If you are asking a question, use a question with a question mark in the title – not the opposite, which might deceive the reader.

§2.4 Post in the correct forum
All threads should be posted in the correct forum. Every user has a responsibility to place threads correctly, to help make the forums easily navigable.

§2.5 Use coherent language and punctuation
Always strive to write in an intelligible manner. The use of caps, exclamation marks and language should all be within reason. Excessive use of caps, exclamation marks, or ”chat” in the ER forums is undesirable.

§2.6 Posts should have purpose
Do not post if you have nothing to contribute with. Posts should be aimed at improving our collective knowledge and well-being. Also, any post should be relevant to the thread it is posted to.

§2.7 Double posting is not allowed
Never post the same thread in multiple forums. Double posting (posting twice in succession to oneself) should not occur. Edit your previous post if you have something you wish to add. The only exception to this is if you are reviving an old thread where you have new information. You can then add new information as a new post.

§2.8 Signatures (disabled)
Please use your Profile to tell others about yourself. Quotes, images and such are better posted in a suitable thread.

§2.9 Avatars should not be offensive or invasive
Avatars that are animated, offensive, pornographic, racist or violent will be deleted. Avatars mimicking those of the moderators or administrators will be deleted without warning.

§2.10 Use quoting carefully
Quoting should only be used if it is absolutely necessary to repeat what someone else said in order to understand your post. Never quote when you are replying to the last post made to a thread. You should always edit your quote, so that only the portion you are referring to is used. Do not quote pictures. If someone posts to a thread while you are composing a response, you will be warned and given a chance to edit your post if necessary.


Specific Category Guidelines
Each Category has a different purpose. Here is a brief introduction:

Bob Dylan - Strictly dedicated to topics on Bob Dylan himself; General Discussion, Theme Time Radio Hour, and Bob Dylan Tour.

Downloads - Requests, links and discussions related to Rare Dylan Recordings each have their separate forums. Make sure you post in the right one - read the descriptions. And remember: No Copyrighted material allowed!

Annex - This is the place for "everything else" and has a less formal atmosphere. However, the rules above still apply! No personal attacks accepted (this goes for members, artists, presidents, your neighbor etc...). Ridicule, spite, slander or slander directed at fellow members, trolling, pouring fuel on a fire - not permitted.

Information & Assistance - Self explanatory?


Consequences of not abiding by the rules
Choosing not to abide by the ER forum rules may lead to you being permanently excluded from the forums.

Breaking the rules will entail warnings – should you choose not to take these warnings into account, you will first be banned for a short period. Warnings will always be made by administrators or moderators using PM or e-mail.

Rights
By posting in the ER forums, you acknowledge ER's right to save and display the contents of your posts. ER reserves the right to amend posts when they do not comply with the ToUs as stated.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:18 GMT 

Joined: Thu March 16th, 2006, 19:39 GMT
Posts: 1680
Location: San Angelo, Texas
Three legged man wrote:
The ultimate fix to this whole thing is to successfully put together a tight team of well-chosen moderators who use their discretion and make group decisions.


True. BUT, for this to work, it needs to be transparent. That is, the community needs to know who is warned, and for what. Why post A was deleted but post B remains. Why behavior X is OK but seemingly similar behavior Y is not. And that means that the "I'm a moderator; my decisions are not only always right, but always above discussion" approach cannot work if you want a community consensus. (If one wanted an adversarial relationship between moderators and users, this would be a good way to get it; I do not think that is wanted, though I might be wrong.)


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:26 GMT 
Titanium Member
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Joined: Mon November 28th, 2005, 17:54 GMT
Posts: 5822
Location: boring gray cold france
Yay for the new New Terms of Use ! Now, what are you gonna do to make sure all people have read & understood the TOU? Anyway, please enable the forums soon ! :)


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:27 GMT 
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Joined: Wed August 9th, 2006, 21:53 GMT
Posts: 5279
Location: Sweeping up on Desolation Row
I'll be good, I promise. Just please give me back my ER.
"Because you're mine, I'll walk the line." Johnny Cash


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:27 GMT 
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Joined: Thu November 15th, 2007, 21:23 GMT
Posts: 1952
Location: the North Country
Quote:
§2.10 Use quoting carefully
Quoting should only be used if it is absolutely necessary to repeat what someone else said in order to understand your post. Never quote when you are replying to the last post made to a thread. You should always edit your quote, so that only the portion you are referring to is used. Do not quote pictures. If someone posts to a thread while you are composing a response, you will be warned and given a chance to edit your post if necessary.



I have included the whole section for a reason. I agree with it except for the "Do not quote pictures" part. How will a person be able to comment on a picture 5 post previous and have anyone know what they're talking about? I am obviously refering to the very popular Visions Of Bob thread. I believe that thread had about 1,500,000 or more hits.

Other than that I have no problem with the new set of rules. They seem logical for the most part.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:31 GMT 
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Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 14311
Location: I was looking for a job and then I found a job and...
charlesdarwin wrote:
Claudette wrote:
Firstly and most obviously, one would hope the same standards of courtesy towards fellow ERers would be maintained wherever you are posting - privately or in the general forums.

Secondly, any references to the content of private messages (sent or recieved) in the general forums should be greeted with a warning or deleted by the moderators.

Finally, the posting of the content of private messages in the general forums for whatever reason, either sent or recieved, should lead to a summary (albeit temporary) ban.

These, I hasten to add, are merely my thoughts and it is up to the framers of the new terms of use how they see fit to proceed.


I agree with this although the summary ban might be a tad strict---perhaps an actual complaint by the wronged (quoted) party would be necessary.

As far as copyrights, from what I know adding a copyright symbol offers some protection, but if it's an actual poem/song of yours that you're serious about you need to obtain an actual copyright from the copyright office. Even then, enforcement is tricky.

As far as the user rules, I suspect the language on copyright is fairly common on sites like this one, and I doubt karlerik is planning to publish our poems and make a fortune off of it :o --that is not the intention of the rule. If you really want to post your stuff maybe create a myspace page (free) and post a link to it.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:45 GMT 

Joined: Thu October 13th, 2005, 23:07 GMT
Posts: 786
Location: dylans window...with a broken wing
Eddie wrote:
I'd like to put in a quick word about the draft proposition to discourage double/multiple postings.

On a few occasions- I'm thinking, in particular, of the quite recent Shakespeare and Dickens threads in Off Topic- I've found myself posting a succession of initial thoughts on these subjects in order to generate a degree of interest in what ultimately proved to be quite popular threads. This fragmented approach also helped me to organise my own thoughts on what are quite broad and complex subjects.

I would have found it very difficult to compress all those initial thoughts into a single post- and, even if I'd attempted to do so, this would almost certainly have made the topics raised too long to be easily digestable at a single reading.


Yes. The ban on double posting would definately cramp Eddie's style. And seeing as he's one of ER's most insightful and intelligent posters, that would be a real shame. I hope Karl Erik will reconsider this clause.

Other than that the new terms of use seem entirely sensible and acceptable.

I just want to see ER back up on it's feet. I love this place; it was a lifeline to me back when I joined in 2005 (and believe me, I really needed one then), and even though I don't post as much as I used to (I impose my own rules about posts having purpose :lol: ) I still come here every day to see what's going on. I hope we can sort this out sooner rather than later.

Just a couple of things before I go -

3LM - I fully support your proposal on page 4. 8)

Also - can we please reinstate precinct? (always assuming he wants to come back, that is..)

That's all. :D


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:49 GMT 
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pswets wrote:
Three legged man wrote:
The ultimate fix to this whole thing is to successfully put together a tight team of well-chosen moderators who use their discretion and make group decisions.


True. BUT, for this to work, it needs to be transparent. That is, the community needs to know who is warned, and for what. Why post A was deleted but post B remains. Why behavior X is OK but seemingly similar behavior Y is not. And that means that the "I'm a moderator; my decisions are not only always right, but always above discussion" approach cannot work if you want a community consensus. (If one wanted an adversarial relationship between moderators and users, this would be a good way to get it; I do not think that is wanted, though I might be wrong.)


This is in contradiction with what I outlined on page 4. In fact, I think most or all disciplinary actions and their details should be kept confidential and out of the forums. With a tight team in place and a good set of rules all the rest of the stuff you mentioned is irrelevant, IMO.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:51 GMT 
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Joined: Mon December 3rd, 2007, 21:16 GMT
Posts: 1086
Location: Down by the banks of the Royal Canal.
I don't think I'll dare to post anything anymore, if the forums open again.
I'll be scared shi..sorry. I'll be scared out of my wits not getting it right past all those portals.
I'll just stay on the news page then. There are rules and regulations enough in real life as it is.
I (same as a lot of others, it seems) still haven't got a clue what it is that we're supposedly guilty of. Seems nobody wants to tell. All for your own protection, Ma'am.
Still, I feel I'm told between the lines that if I and others had been more supportive, then 'this' wouldn't have happened.
Reading the rules once more, I feel I'm in a girl school in the thirties, being slapped on the wrists with a leather strap once a week for good measure, just to prevent me being a bad girl.
You're throwing out the baby with the dirty tub-water, as they say in Denmark. Or is that in one word? Sorry. I'm a foreigner.
I'm not going to support anything or anyone that believe punishment and yet more rules and regulations create a fairer and better society. That doesn't create light at the end of the tunnel. History has proven this theory wrong. I wouldn't be sitting in a tunnel waiting for the light to show. I would prefer working on breaking down the walls.
I would rather get slapped for raising my own opinion than having to weigh every word to balance against all those rules.
You are, as I still see it, working on taking the personality and the human individuality, in all their splendour, away from this board.
Is this a Bob Dylan site?
Never mind.
Bye. (Sorry, forgot the ' there - or did I?)
Edited once - sorry. Missed an 'n' .


Last edited by Ursie Green Pastures on Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:57 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Copyright
PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:56 GMT 

Joined: Sat May 12th, 2007, 19:22 GMT
Posts: 3728
Location: Beside a wild stream
Fabe wrote:
Eddie wrote:
...the Copyright on the many personal poems Serafina Magdelena has posted on the "Non-Bob Dylan lyrics" thread now devolves to ER, rather than remaining with the author?


Eddie - I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV or the internet for that matter. However, I do know a few things about copyright in the United States.

If anyone posts anything original on the internet and does not use appropriate copyright language for their country, the material can be considered Public Domain.

For example, some original doggerel of mine:

"My poetry rivals Shakespeare's
Until you use garden shears"

If posted just like this, even though I am the poster, it becomes public domain. But, after the poem, if I add:

©2009 by My Real Name. All Rights Reserved.
No portion of this poem may be used without permission from My Real Name.

It become protected. Enforcement is a whole other issue. The moral: Writer/Poster beware.




It would be helpful if the owners of ER would be more specific about the copyright clause in the agreement that's being drafted. I have some collections of songs registered with the U.S. Copyright Office -- those I'm not concerned about. But I also have have envelopes of songs in my lock box with nothing more than a "poor man's copyright". Those consist of self-addressed, sealed, and metered mail of original lyrics. I've posted some from the second group. By agreeing to the new terms, will I be transferring ownership rights of unregistered songs to the owners of ER? I must say, I'm glad for what I've held back. As for myself, I'd like to have the option to delete those songs from the database before signing a new agreement to be a member of this board.


Last edited by Brairy Rose on Sat June 20th, 2009, 16:07 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 15:58 GMT 

Joined: Mon January 9th, 2006, 09:01 GMT
Posts: 2419
Location: Manchester UK
Having looked at the new Terms of Use, draft 2, I don't think you've got so much to worry about Ursie.

Thanks Karl Erik and Madcow for listening to the comments on the first draft.

I'm assuming there is going to be a special dispensation for Eddie, as he doesn't double post more like sextuple post when he's really on form.


Good luck to the new moderators.


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PostPosted: Sat June 20th, 2009, 16:02 GMT 
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Joined: Mon September 17th, 2007, 21:22 GMT
Posts: 136
The moderating of the forums will not be made transparent.

However, whenever a moderator edits or moves a post due to content, he/she will be expected to refer to the relevant paragraph for clarity.

If someone is banned (only senior mods and admin will be able to ban, atleast at first) a reason is given in the message the bannee receives. In the past this has not always been a very clear message - but the reason should be stated clearly from now on, again referring to the relevant paragraph.

Hopefully, once people get familiar with the new set of guidelines and the moderators have moderated for a bit, established users will not need constant reminding. The aim of the ToUs is not to kill the forum spirit, but to ensure that misunderstandings and uneccessary page-filling is kept to a minimum, as well as letting people get on without the risk of being ridiculed for whatever reason.


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