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PostPosted: Sun December 17th, 2017, 19:19 GMT 
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mjmooney wrote:
The beach was deserted, all the way to the sea
A piece of an old ship, it lay on the shore
When I needed your help, well you came through for me
You gave me a map, and a key to your door



Talk about clunky. At very least, 'well' should be dropped, it's redundant.

The last line works (Dylan's) it's a model of economy.


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PostPosted: Sun December 17th, 2017, 19:23 GMT 

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Ain't Talkin' wrote:
mjmooney wrote:
The beach was deserted, all the way to the sea
A piece of an old ship, it lay on the shore
When I needed your help, well you came through for me
You gave me a map, and a key to your door



Talk about clunky. At very least, 'well' should be dropped, it's redundant.
Of course it is. I'm not Bob Dylan (when he was concentrating). But it's stll better than 'kelp/help'.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 04:54 GMT 
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he wouldn't have settled for effin' 'kelp'. It was the start of a period where sloppiness began to creep more and more into his songwriting.
Funny to think of an actual glop of kelp getting slimed into his hitherto smooth running canon - it's all downhill from hither. And yon.


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PostPosted: Mon December 18th, 2017, 21:56 GMT 

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Lone Pilgrim wrote:
I haven't closely read the whole, long thread, but a scan reveals it to be a mishmash of genuinely objectionable rhymes (e.g., "kelp/help" - an OK rhyme as such, but my laws, nobody should be allowed to write "the beach is deserted except for some kelp" :lol:; "can you cook and sew/make flowers grow" etc.) and then some that are really rather charming.

It beats me how anyone can slag the last verse of "Spirit on the Water," for instance. Or, "a gal named Honey/took my money/she was passin' by" - sure, the money/honey rhyme is hackneyed, but the net effect of the verse is a marvelously compact depiction of the classic dilemma: boy meets girl, boy spends money on girl, girl buggers off. :wink: That's neatly done, especially when matched with Bob's inimitiable delivery.

Then there's a bundle of outrageous rhymes. E.g., "outrageous/contagious," "January/Buenos Aires," "sons of bitches/orphanages," "subpoena/Angelina," etc., etc.. One part of Bob's toolkit is this willingness to bolt together two words that nobody else would dare to. There's a sly humour to such rhymes, and calling them "bad" strikes me as a bit ungenerous. "Fun" might be closer to the mark.

Conversely, the sort of thing that bugs me is ponderous rhymes. For instance, "breath" and "death" are a hard combo to get away with ("sleep is like a temporary death" being a rare weak link in that otherwise wonderful song). "I dreamt of my future wife" is a great line, but its partner - "this version of death called life" - is one wince-inducing renegade that almost kiboshes the whole tune. "Strife/life" is another pair of evil fraternal twins, inflicting harm on "When the Deal Goes Down" and "Red River Shore;" whether the context is adequate to save these songs from the resulting carnage is for each listener to judge.

But basically, I'm surprised by some of the candidates offered in this thread, as their nomination seems to show a distaste for some of Bob's most characteristic moments as an artist.


Excellent post. The whole point of a song like Angelina is the outrageous rhyming - that's what the song is about and as such it is brilliant.

The ones I hate are the ones where Dylan seems to be taking terrible rhyming seriously, e.g. "No Time To Think". He has nothing whatever to say, but is using meaningless rhymes in place of thought.

However I think the winner (or loser) in the end has to be the couplet Alouette quotes from Joey. This is so bad I feel my eyeballs shrivelling as I read:

they let him out in '71 he'd lost a little weight
But he dressed like Jimmy Cagney and I swear he did look great


This is pure McGonagall.


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 00:07 GMT 
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xongsmith wrote:
though they murdered 6 million, in the ovens they fried,
the Germans now too have God On Their Side
yuck
- nate
I guess this is the kind of clunker that drove him to write more speculative.


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 01:23 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
xongsmith wrote:
though they murdered 6 million, in the ovens they fried,
the Germans now too have God On Their Side
yuck
- nate
I guess this is the kind of clunker that drove him to write more speculative.


That line is far from a clunker.


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 12:16 GMT 
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He could have altered the lyrics:

Though they murdered 6 million, in the ovens they gassed
The Germans now, too, have cars that go really fast


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 13:12 GMT 
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... When the judge sent me down the road with your subpoena
rhyming with Angelina

I love all the other crazy rhymes on Angelina, but this one is terrible.


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 13:30 GMT 
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RichardW wrote:
..However I think the winner (or loser) in the end has to be the couplet Alouette quotes from Joey. This is so bad I feel my eyeballs shrivelling as I read:

they let him out in '71 he'd lost a little weight
But he dressed like Jimmy Cagney and I swear he did look great


This is pure McGonagall.


Hi RichardW
it's nice to agree !! :)


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PostPosted: Tue December 19th, 2017, 17:51 GMT 
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Highlands
blow my top/ pawn shop
It grates every time I hear it.


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PostPosted: Wed December 20th, 2017, 01:46 GMT 

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Alouette wrote:
I think coca cola / gondola is excellent rhyme !! :D

song is a masterpiece, perfect or close to it


I can’t find it, but I’m pretty certain I’ve heard John Prine single this out as one of his favorite rhymes. I like it, too.


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PostPosted: Wed December 20th, 2017, 15:15 GMT 
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LionelM wrote:
I can’t find it, but I’m pretty certain I’ve heard John Prine single this out as one of his favorite rhymes. I like it, too.

It is, indeed, a very John Prine-esque rhyme.


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PostPosted: Sun December 24th, 2017, 05:50 GMT 
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Tibet/Forget


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PostPosted: Sun December 24th, 2017, 09:51 GMT 
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I don't know if it was mentioned, but for me it's the glove line from thunder on the mountain.

Bob also used fit me like a glove on When The Night Comes Falling From The Sky.

He's getting up there and repeating himself.


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PostPosted: Sat December 30th, 2017, 19:06 GMT 
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Thought of this today, not a rhyme but "the snow was outrageous" is a pretty bad line in Isis. Was it, Bob? Was the snow outrageous?


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PostPosted: Sun December 31st, 2017, 03:39 GMT 

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Anr Bjotk wrote:
Thought of this today, not a rhyme but "the snow was outrageous" is a pretty bad line in Isis. Was it, Bob? Was the snow outrageous?


The song has a melodramatic tone (accentuated in live performances) and, while “outrageous” is a strange descriptor for snow, I like the way it lands within the context of the lyric.


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PostPosted: Sun December 31st, 2017, 05:17 GMT 
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Instead of 'outrageous' maybe 'the snow was the flakiest' would have been a good rhyme, like listening to Christmas In the Heart all throughout the year.


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PostPosted: Sun December 31st, 2017, 09:29 GMT 
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Anr Bjotk wrote:
Thought of this today, not a rhyme but "the snow was outrageous" is a pretty bad line in Isis. Was it, Bob? Was the snow outrageous?



I won't discuss the *beauty* of the verse - I'd love Isis if it were sung in Turkish - but the weather is often referred to as *outrageous*; and single atmospheric events as well.


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PostPosted: Sun December 31st, 2017, 09:36 GMT 
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Ain't Talkin' wrote:
Instead of 'outrageous' maybe 'the snow was the flakiest' would have been a good rhyme, like listening to Christmas In the Heart all throughout the year.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun December 31st, 2017, 10:35 GMT 
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Ain't Talkin' wrote:
Instead of 'outrageous' maybe 'the snow was the flakiest' would have been a good rhyme, like listening to Christmas In the Heart all throughout the year.


Then again, it wouldn't have rhymed with contagious. And with that we might just have the worst rhyme:

(...) the snow was outrageous
when he died I was hoping it wasn't contagious.


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PostPosted: Thu January 4th, 2018, 06:39 GMT 
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sky - cry - died

around - frowns- clowns

vacuum of his eyes - vacuum of his eyes ( Isle Of Wight '69)


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PostPosted: Fri January 5th, 2018, 22:23 GMT 
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Matt Blacks wrote:
... When the judge sent me down the road with your subpoena
rhyming with Angelina

I love all the other crazy rhymes on Angelina, but this one is terrible.

Wrong, Matt.
It’s such an audacious and outright brilliant rhyme that when you hear it, you know there’s only one guy on the planet who has the chutzpah, the f-in balls, to even try.


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PostPosted: Sat January 6th, 2018, 00:25 GMT 

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Location: in harmony with the cosmic sea
With a pain that stops and starts / Like a corkscrew to my heart (from You're A Big Girl Now)
Certainly not his worst rhyme, but really the only one that ever bothers me, because it's a blemish on an otherwise perfect side A.
To me it never feels like this rhyme belongs there.


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PostPosted: Sat January 6th, 2018, 12:38 GMT 

Joined: Thu July 5th, 2007, 08:12 GMT
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Location: Copenhagen.dk
Pretty Peggy-O
Borneo


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PostPosted: Sat January 6th, 2018, 16:49 GMT 

Joined: Thu July 5th, 2007, 08:12 GMT
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Location: Copenhagen.dk
Well, i don´t think he is using the word "Borneo" in Pretty Peggy-O,
but i have read somewhere that back then - ca.1961 - they had fun
with finding all kinds of Words that could rhyme with Peggy-O, and
one was something like - the man from Borne-O.


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