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PostPosted: Sun November 26th, 2017, 10:57 GMT 

Joined: Tue January 6th, 2015, 15:03 GMT
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Well, look. I'm glad I bought The Big One, and not the 2CD - if only for disc 4, which is astonishing.

But I still think the whole thing is bloated and overpriced.

My 'ideal' BS13 would have been a four (at a pinch, five) CD set - two discs of the best live renditions of the songs, making up a 'pseudo concert', as per discs 1 and 2, and two (maybe three) discs, comprehensively rounding up the studio alternatives, outtakes, rehearsals, etc. Priced at about £50/$70.

The video, I would have preferred to be sold as a totally separate package - but as a COMPLETE show, if possible - including the backing singers' 'mini-sets', and Dylan's 'sermons'/harangues, rather than the Michael Shannon clips.

Unfortunately, I'm not Sony.


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PostPosted: Sun November 26th, 2017, 12:38 GMT 
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Cover down, pray through - whatever, it is evocative given the context of Pharaoh's army and the Hebrew children especially as the lyrics developed; the Word of God is sharper than any double-sided sword.


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PostPosted: Sun November 26th, 2017, 14:11 GMT 
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slimtimslide wrote:
mjmooney wrote:
So, everyone's making guesses as to its precise meaning. Fair enough, I just wondered if 'cover down' was an American expression unfamiliar to us Brits.


Elsewhere someone has commented that they heard this phrase from someone under a great deal of stress during hard times, who said there was nothing to be done about their situation for the present but 'cover down and pray through'... it may not make literal sense, but it is evocative. "Pull the covers down over me, and pray through the situation" doesn't have quite the same ring.

Apparently the definition of "cover down" has possibly morphed somewhat since Bob's gospel days?

According to Urban Dictionary:

cover down
a fascination with the buttocks of the person in front of you.


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... ver%20down

Or maybe this clarifies things?


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PostPosted: Sun November 26th, 2017, 16:52 GMT 
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I don't know if these are from the DVD or if the audio is included in the box set, but here are some more videos from "Peter Sugarman" on YouTube

Ain't Gonna Go To Hell For Anybody
https://youtu.be/sF6oUhqI7AQ

Do Right To Me Baby (Do Unto Others)
https://youtu.be/IyQoZaz03oI

Thanks Pete!


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PostPosted: Sun November 26th, 2017, 23:19 GMT 

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bought the set and loved it. i am an atheist who thinks the gospel years were a high mark of his career. i do miss the sermons and the lectures he gave to an unwilling audience you have on the bootleg bootlegs. it would have made for an interesting separate disc- particularly the tempe audience calling out for rock and roll and bob telling them to see kiss and rock and roll into the pit. man i love that stuff- excellent music with interspersed with bob rambling on about the end times and the pissed off crowd wanting to hear the old stuff. so i guess i will keep my bootlegs....


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 13:16 GMT 
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The lyrical flubs, err massacres, on the Earls Court discs really take me out of the experience. Gotta Serve Somebody is really bad. Is this the best out of the shows they had??


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 13:41 GMT 
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kuddukan wrote:
The lyrical flubs, err massacres, on the Earls Court discs really take me out of the experience. Gotta Serve Somebody is really bad. Is this the best out of the shows they had??


Maybe it's an idication of his ceasing conviction in the whole gospel stuff? On the other hand, the old hits are like a foreign matter to my feel. Or did I listen to the 79/80 stuff too much?


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 14:05 GMT 

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The Earls Court performance of Serve Somebody is one of the highlights of the set for me. Dylan's phrasing/timing is phenomenal. I think he is purposefully playing around with the words here, rather than forgetting them.


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 14:07 GMT 
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I tell you that Rolling Stone on disc 7 is one of my favorite renditions I think I’ve heard. Yeah it is really weird listening to Maggie’s Farm on there. Just a few months ago he was telling the crowd:

“Thank you. There aren't gonna be any old songs tonight. So if anyone wants to leave they can leave right now! Anyone at all, please leave now because there's someone outside wants your seat. (after Precious Angel)”


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 18:04 GMT 

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Mickvet wrote:
slimtimslide wrote:
I rather like 'Man gave names to all the animals" - it sits right next to 'Wiggle Wiggle' as an exercise in humorous innocent fun. It may be hard to believe it is written by the same guy who gave us Visions Of Johanna or Desolation Row, but I enjoy them for what they are, and a three year old would get much more from them than from the serious stuff.


You know, I was listening to 'Man Gave Names' in my car today, when it dawned on me, after a mere thirty-eight years, that the precepts behind the song are not as childish as I always thought. Those are the emergence of consciousness and the consequent development of abstract thought. That is what is implied in giving a name to a thing-one is providing a signifier, both for the particular thing named and for the universal it represents. When the man that first named a dog did so, he not only was describing a label for the four-legged creature in front of him, but also recognising it as one that could be applied to other things of the category he was discovering, but not to a different, though similar, thing, such as a pig. Therefore, when one thinks of one's dog, one is thinking both of one's own pet and also of the notion of a dog as a universal. I recollect the late American novelist Walker Percy making a gallant attempt to explain these very esoteric ideas. This ability to think and organise one's thoughts abstractly is what distinguishes the human from the other animals.


And also: to give name to something is to have power over it (you can name your dog, a company you create, your children...). The song says that evil (the snake, which we cannot name) is a force in the world, a force over which we have no power, no control ...


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 19:05 GMT 
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You guys are getting pretty deep into a light hearted tune.

I’m thinking about the Earls Court set maybe it is the message, and part of the picture of showing Bob losing interest and heat in those gospel songs. After doing them at every concert for 2 years, he starts forgetting the words? Weird. I also noticed he sang something like “smoking a lot of grass” ...


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 19:37 GMT 
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I was looking into Clydie King following this box set. This is worth a listen:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2o2TfBVNDH5UCvwh62QExQ

Or maybe just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nph9B2dSXk


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 19:43 GMT 
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And then my computer played me this. She's everywhere! YouTube's cleverer than I give it credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZPPBJC8Ic


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 20:44 GMT 
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Somebody Naked wrote:
I was looking into Clydie King following this box set. This is worth a listen:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2o2TfBVNDH5UCvwh62QExQ

Or maybe just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nph9B2dSXk


Right, and then computer said; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7UVZYbzfWVU


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 21:06 GMT 

Joined: Sun April 17th, 2016, 14:09 GMT
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Somebody Naked wrote:
And then my computer played me this. She's everywhere! YouTube's cleverer than I give it credit for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZPPBJC8Ic


You mean the girl in yellow !?

Oh, of course we don´t have to forget the great Linda Ronstadt.


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 22:57 GMT 
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Linda & Dolly; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MKYfESMWfQE
I never will marry


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 23:18 GMT 
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Somebody Naked wrote:
I was looking into Clydie King following this box set. This is worth a listen:

https://open.spotify.com/album/2o2TfBVNDH5UCvwh62QExQ

Or maybe just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nph9B2dSXk


Me too!
Liking what I am hearing ... Same happened for me with Mavis Staples! Never did quite get with Joan Baez though ...


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PostPosted: Mon November 27th, 2017, 23:51 GMT 
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kuddukan wrote:
The lyrical flubs, err massacres, on the Earls Court discs really take me out of the experience. Gotta Serve Somebody is really bad. Is this the best out of the shows they had??


It's bizarre to me that Earl's Court 1981 ends up being the weak link in the collection. Bizarre because normally 1981 is my favorite single year for Bob Dylan's on-stage performances. Maybe that's the problem - there are more shows available in high quality, and a regular listener to those tapes is inevitably going to be more picky about the final release than a person who'd never heard contemporary recordings. I'm content with the release overall (hell, I'd probably rank it as my single favorite Bootleg Series installment based on my love of the gospel era and its seemingly endless riches), but I think they dropped the ball on including a 1981 show.

On a related note, my pick would probably have been Drammen - July 10. There are other excellent shows circulating (London, Avignon, Basel, New Orleans and Houston), but Drammen is probably the one where the circulating recording is good enough that you can tell its an extraordinary performance but poor enough that you wouldn't want to regularly listen to it; an audible upgrade would have been much appreciated. I feel a little bit like I'm quibbling, since I so adore BS13, but we all have our opinions, haha.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 04:10 GMT 

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I completely agree that the lyric flubs on Earls Court take me out of the experience, though, with repeated listens, I am more forgiving.

I think it was chosen, in part, because of the first two songs, particularly "I Believe in You." All the "oldies" range from good to excellent, especially LARS. Tambourine Man is a shadow of Drammen, though.

That said, I find Avignon sounds too harsh, at least Shot of Love from disc 2, so don't think it would be better. In fact, I'm not sure if the other choices from Europe would, overall, be ultimately any better (apart from replacing the distracting flubbed-songs). Perhaps the shows are not quite as focused as I had remembered them.

I do like that the guitars are higher in the mix in Drammen.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 07:58 GMT 

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DCB wrote:
I have listened through disc 6, and the live Toronto tracks on discs 5 & 6 are the absolute highlight for me so far. The sound is exquisite - a clear step up from the sound on discs 1 & 2, which was already mostly very good. Also, Bob's singing is more compelling than what I remembered from hearing a bootleg of one of the Toronto shows. Solid Rock is perhaps taken at slightly too fast a pace, sounding a bit rushed compared to the slower tempo of the 1979 performance. But generally these performances hold their own against the 1979 versions. And as I said, the sound is absolutely astonishing. You can clearly hear all the instruments ....Fred Tackett's incredible lead guitar, Spooner Oldham's churchy organ playing in the background, every moan and aside of the backing vocalists. I'm surprised that these tracks were not used as the core of the two-disc version with additional live and studio tracks from throughout the gospel years to fill out the discs. That would have been a five-star release.


I think a consensus might be emerging that the Toronto discs are outstanding in terms of performance and recording. The highlight. I'm in.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 10:37 GMT 
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belleseb32 wrote:
kuddukan wrote:
The lyrical flubs, err massacres, on the Earls Court discs really take me out of the experience. Gotta Serve Somebody is really bad. Is this the best out of the shows they had??


It's bizarre to me that Earl's Court 1981 ends up being the weak link in the collection. Bizarre because normally 1981 is my favorite single year for Bob Dylan's on-stage performances. Maybe that's the problem - there are more shows available in high quality, and a regular listener to those tapes is inevitably going to be more picky about the final release than a person who'd never heard contemporary recordings. I'm content with the release overall (hell, I'd probably rank it as my single favorite Bootleg Series installment based on my love of the gospel era and its seemingly endless riches), but I think they dropped the ball on including a 1981 show.

On a related note, my pick would probably have been Drammen - July 10. There are other excellent shows circulating (London, Avignon, Basel, New Orleans and Houston), but Drammen is probably the one where the circulating recording is good enough that you can tell its an extraordinary performance but poor enough that you wouldn't want to regularly listen to it; an audible upgrade would have been much appreciated. I feel a little bit like I'm quibbling, since I so adore BS13, but we all have our opinions, haha.


Very similar experience here - I have always loved the Europe 1981 shows and so it is a bit odd that Earls Court lets the side down just a little. I agree with you as to why.

Drammen would have been a great choice, as would simply doing an Earls Court sampler much like they did with Toronto. Strange that they didnt really.

An amazing release.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 13:38 GMT 

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I find that the '81 shows have some really powerful performances, but there's a lot that don't quite make it, particularly the encores. That being said they are still great shows overall, and I'm glad they releases a complete show. I'm going to augment my listening of the box set with the recordings of Avignon and New Orleans that circulate.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 14:03 GMT 
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bobfan wrote:
I'm going to augment my listening of the box set with the recordings of Avignon and New Orleans that circulate.

Good on ya, Fan.
My Box-Set listening is so backlogged, augmentation seems not to be an option!


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 16:24 GMT 

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Long time listener, first time caller.

A few posts back, someone asked about the term "cover down". It's a marching term; when you cover down, you're making sure you are in line. I've never heard it used in gospel music, but it certainly makes sense in that context.

Number of Dylan shows: 15
Song I'm listening to right now: "Slow Train Coming"
Opinion on Under the Red Sky: Love it; Don Was is the man. As is George, Elton, etc.
Overrated Bob song: "The Groom's Still Waiting at the Altar". Shot of Love is perfect w/out it, preferably on my dad's original vinyl.
Biggest surprise from reading this message board over the years: Everyone doesn't friggin' love Modern Times?!? Seriously?

There, I think that pretty much catches me up.


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PostPosted: Tue November 28th, 2017, 16:53 GMT 
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Quote:
Biggest surprise from reading this message board over the years: Everyone doesn't friggin' love Modern Times?!? Seriously?


Correct. :?
Instead, everyone does friggin' love "Love And Theft". (I'm also more of a Modern Times fan, myself.)

Welcome to ER! :) 8)


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