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PostPosted: Mon November 6th, 2017, 22:55 GMT 

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Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.


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PostPosted: Mon November 6th, 2017, 23:01 GMT 
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frenchdog wrote:
Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.


One thing is sure I think, Dylan has never been an atheist.


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PostPosted: Mon November 6th, 2017, 23:40 GMT 
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frenchdog wrote:
Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.

Wow, how do you convert to atheism?


(raises hand)
"I, Bob Dylan, do solemnly swear that I believe in no deity. Never again shall I invoke the same of the Lord, so help me God... er, so help me."


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 01:57 GMT 
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panther wrote:

But seriously, I am *guessing* Dylan's "religious" (not necessarily the same as "spiritual") life has gone something like this:

1941 to 1955: Jewish by default; memorizing Torah; Bar Mitzvah, etc.

1956-ish to 1966-ish: "angry young man" rejects organized religion

1967-ish to 1977: death of Woody Guthrie and his father (close together), combined with birth of young children, prompts prolonged period of reflective reconsideration and re-reading of Torah and the New Testament, with an open-mindedness to both (resulting in songs from 'Sign on the Cross' to 'Oh Sister', etc.)

1978 to 1980/1981: Vineyard Fellowship cult-ish Christianity, after Dylan is confronted by Jesus in a Tucson, Arizona hotel room and signs up for Bible school

1982-ish to early (?) 1990s: "Messianic Jew" -- he's both a Jew by extended family and a Christian by choice and association (on stage in 1987, he was still describing Jesus as his "hero"). Was in with the Lubavitch-ers but still singing Christian hymns, etc.

Since early/mid(?)-1990s: Combination of everything from the past with less dogma needed; a comfortable post-middle aged resignation that American song and musical traditions will ultimately define his spiritual experience of the material world.




I was going to post this, with a couple of tweaks, more or less.


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 05:49 GMT 

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On a lighter note (But true) someone genuinely asked me the following question

"I know you are an atheist, but are you a Catholic atheist, or a Protestant atheist" :roll: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 07:54 GMT 

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frenchdog wrote:
Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.


It's all those Stanley Brothers covers he did at that time. Wicked godless atheists, those boys.


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 09:17 GMT 
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panther wrote:
I think now is good time for Dylan to give up the Sinatra nonsense and release his 'Muslim' album. He could call it Slow Jihad Coming.

But seriously, I am *guessing* Dylan's "religious" (not necessarily the same as "spiritual") life has gone something like this:

1941 to 1955: Jewish by default; memorizing Torah; Bar Mitzvah, etc.

1956-ish to 1966-ish: "angry young man" rejects organized religion

1967-ish to 1977: death of Woody Guthrie and his father (close together), combined with birth of young children, prompts prolonged period of reflective reconsideration and re-reading of Torah and the New Testament, with an open-mindedness to both (resulting in songs from 'Sign on the Cross' to 'Oh Sister', etc.)

1978 to 1980/1981: Vineyard Fellowship cult-ish Christianity, after Dylan is confronted by Jesus in a Tucson, Arizona hotel room and signs up for Bible school

1982-ish to early (?) 1990s: "Messianic Jew" -- he's both a Jew by extended family and a Christian by choice and association (on stage in 1987, he was still describing Jesus as his "hero"). Was in with the Lubavitch-ers but still singing Christian hymns, etc.

Since early/mid(?)-1990s: Combination of everything from the past with less dogma needed; a comfortable post-middle aged resignation that American song and musical traditions will ultimately define his spiritual experience of the material world.


Just my guess. Who knows? Probably not Dylan.


True.


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 13:35 GMT 

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Mickvet wrote:
frenchdog wrote:
Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.


It's all those Stanley Brothers covers he did at that time. Wicked godless atheists, those boys.

hillbilly heathen


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 18:51 GMT 
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kuddukan wrote:
Bob just released the most curated and comprehensive collection of his career, spanning 10 audio CDs and a full length movie on DVD for the first time in the Bootleg Series.

This music is a celebration of his dramatic conversion experience to Christianity.

It’s a full throated embrace of this aspect of his career, thumbing the nose at any naysayers.



I'd go ahead and say 1966 is the most comprehensive overview of his career, with a movie, a 36 disc box set and another 18 disc box set. 10 discs is child's play.


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PostPosted: Tue November 7th, 2017, 19:52 GMT 
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Harry Truman wrote:
kuddukan wrote:
Bob just released the most curated and comprehensive collection of his career, spanning 10 audio CDs and a full length movie on DVD for the first time in the Bootleg Series.

This music is a celebration of his dramatic conversion experience to Christianity.

It’s a full throated embrace of this aspect of his career, thumbing the nose at any naysayers.



I'd go ahead and say 1966 is the most comprehensive overview of his career, with a movie, a 36 disc box set and another 18 disc box set. 10 discs is child's play.


The Live Tour 66 box was a cheaply made copyright dump.

The 18 disc box wasn’t curated either. It was a copyright protection release for the most part.

The BS13 box is curated from among many concerts and sessions. To me, it seems to have been given more thought.

Only opinion of course, which you know what can be compared to...


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 16:48 GMT 
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Sorry. I got distracted and didn't have time to circle back to the joke I was going to make which was that they left just the essential material in the 1966 releases.


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 17:08 GMT 
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frenchdog wrote:
Remember reading somewhere that Bob converted to atheism sometime between Time Out of Mind and Love & Theft. Will dig around for the source.


I'd need a source before I'd swallow that.


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 17:25 GMT 
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Boker Tov. Until Bob publically announces his beliefs himself, it is all speculation.


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 17:40 GMT 

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He did publicly say, in an interview about Christmas In the Heart, that "I'm a true believer". So, without a doubt, he's a Hindu.


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 18:01 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
He did publicly say, in an interview about Christmas In the Heart, that "I'm a true believer". So, without a doubt, he's a Hindu.


Hey now!


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 21:53 GMT 
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He also said, "I don't like restaurants or hotels."

Who does Bob admire? "There's a guy who works in a gas station in LA - old guy, I truly admire that guy.."


-------------------------------

Always look for context.


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PostPosted: Wed November 8th, 2017, 22:52 GMT 
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Could the spiritual aspects of his career simply be a marketing ploy, as some have suggested the the whole civil rights/anti war themes, were? There's big money in religion, we know that - and LOTS of followers. Trump has clearly shown us the awful truth on the vast gullibility of millions of people. Bob complained about being treated as some sort of deity, but he brought it on himself.


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PostPosted: Thu November 9th, 2017, 01:17 GMT 
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By a man's fruits shall he be recognised. Does Bob Dylan bring hope, love and joy in his work? Is he trusted or hated? Is he positive or scary? Is he sincere or a con-artist?

And what about Mr Trump?


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PostPosted: Thu November 9th, 2017, 01:19 GMT 
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“Politics for Political World”


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PostPosted: Thu November 9th, 2017, 07:26 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 16th, 2009, 10:46 GMT
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chrome horse wrote:
Could the spiritual aspects of his career simply be a marketing ploy, as some have suggested the the whole civil rights/anti war themes, were? There's big money in religion, we know that - and LOTS of followers. Trump has clearly shown us the awful truth on the vast gullibility of millions of people. Bob complained about being treated as some sort of deity, but he brought it on himself.

Yea. After a lifetime of commercial failure, Bob gambled on religion to give him
the sales and success that eluded him his whole life. Thanks for that insight.


Last edited by gerardv on Thu November 9th, 2017, 07:32 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu November 9th, 2017, 07:32 GMT 
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The way he makes more money, he's probably a scientologist these days.


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PostPosted: Fri November 10th, 2017, 14:13 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
He did publicly say, in an interview about Christmas In the Heart, that "I'm a true believer". So, without a doubt, he's a Hindu.

Harry Truman wrote:
He also said, "I don't like restaurants or hotels."
Who does Bob admire? "There's a guy who works in a gas station in LA - old guy, I truly admire that guy.."
-------------------------------
Always look for context.

Here's the context of Bob's "true believer" remark in the Christmas in the Heart interview:

Bill Flanagan: You really give a heroic performance of O’ LITTLE TOWN OF BETHLEHEM.
The way you do it reminds me a little of an Irish rebel song. There’s something almost defiant in the way
you sing “The hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.”
I don’t want to put you on the spot, but you sure deliver that song like a true believer.

Dylan: Well, I am a true believer.

Bob says " I am a true believer" in the context of discussing his performance of a song about the birth of Jesus.
Some of the lyrics of that song :
O holy Child of Bethlehem
Descend to us, we pray
Cast out our sin and enter in
Be born to us today


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PostPosted: Fri November 10th, 2017, 15:22 GMT 
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The problem with his interviews, of course, is that you never what is the truth and what is his whim of the moment.

Like when he is asked about "Rainy Day Women" being about pot and he'll say something like "don't people read the bible?". The stoners in his crowds know what he is singing about, and it's one of his most performed songs. I see his evasion on the issue as an understandable avoidance of bringing heat on his touring band. At the same time, I see it as a massive cop out in light of the outrageous war on pot that has wrongly incriminated millions of Americans over the years, and has particularly devastated minority communities. It is the worst legal injustice in America since slavery, even eclipsing the wrongful internment of Japanese in WWll.


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PostPosted: Fri November 10th, 2017, 17:58 GMT 

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chrome horse wrote:
The problem with his interviews, of course, is that you never what is the truth and what is his whim of the moment.

Like when he is asked about "Rainy Day Women" being about pot and he'll say something like "don't people read the bible?". The stoners in his crowds know what he is singing about, and it's one of his most performed songs. I see his evasion on the issue as an understandable avoidance of bringing heat on his touring band. At the same time, I see it as a massive cop out in light of the outrageous war on pot that has wrongly incriminated millions of Americans over the years, and has particularly devastated minority communities. It is the worst legal injustice in America since slavery, even eclipsing the wrongful internment of Japanese in WWll.


I think you've had too much pot. You're gone potty. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat November 11th, 2017, 03:49 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
The way he makes more money, he's probably a scientologist these days.


Bob Dylan gives away lots of his money in private without making a big song and dance about it. That's what Jesus advocated.


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