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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 07:11 GMT 

Joined: Tue October 2nd, 2007, 00:13 GMT
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Story from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/book ... -book.html

And here's the official site: http://bobdylannobel.com/

The long and short of it is that, as of today, Simon & Schuster has begun selling 100 "individually signed and numbered" copies of Bob Dylan's Nobel Lecture, which runs 23 pages, for $2,500 a piece. Meanwhile, the unsigned version will set you back only $16.99 (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN ... ingrain-20). By my math, that means Simon & Schuster values Bob's signature at $2,483.01

Though perhaps that's a tad unfair. The premium edition, it should be noted, also includes a "decorative and protective case."

Honestly, I don't know how to feel about this. Part of me finds it unseemly for Bob to be so brazenly cashing in on his Nobel like this, particularly when he already got $900,000 just for winning the thing. But then there's another part of me that's tickled to no end by the sheer audacity of it all. It is, in many respects, a quintessentially Dylan move. In the wake of plagiarism charges, when the natural reaction would be to retreat, he leans in.

Oh, what's that? You think I cribbed the thing from Spark Notes? Well, guess what? I did. And now I'm gonna sign my name on it, put in a slipcase, and fleece some true believers out of $2,500 big ones. Tell me, how does that feeeel?


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 07:52 GMT 
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Do we know that this was Bob's decision?
I think it's more like with BS the releases (there was a discussion about how much Bob is involved in those on this forum a couple of weeks ago):
somebody in the Dylan camp brought up the idea, maybe it was presented to Bob and he probably only said "Well, whatever...". Of course he will take the money that is made with this booklet (who wouldn't?), but somehow I can't imagine Bob really caring about business stuff like that.

Personally, I'm not even bothering with the 16 $ release. And I think somebody who is willing to spend 2,500 $ on this is a person with way too much money.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 08:27 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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Location: Ireland
It puts the complaints about the pricing of the Gospel set into context.

That saying about 'knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing' comes to mind.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 09:32 GMT 

Joined: Wed December 1st, 2004, 16:02 GMT
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On one hand, Bob has the right to make money and if there are people willing to pay, so be it (there will be). On the other hand, I'm personally dismayed that Bob, a man who is already worth a fortune, should feel the need to hawk his fame like this. To me, it's unseemly and certainly unworthy of an artist who, at least in a fair amount of his own work, has raised questions about material wealth, greed, covetousness and many another vice. Okay, neither he nor the publishers are going to make a lot from such a small run but it's the symbolic value of such a thing that smells rank. Rather ironic on the eve of the release of a goldmine of songs of the spirit. Camels and eyes of needles come to mind.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 09:39 GMT 
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Aside from the price, does anyone actually care?

Fan as I am, I struggling to work up any interest in the contents of this lecture. $16.99 seems like a way over-priced stretch for me.

2,500 dollars? Er, what? Does he personally come to your home, promise not to make you sit through all of it, take out his guitar and perform his first 30 albums at your convenience? He would need to do something like that for me to make this worthwhile.

If the lecture text is at some point shared for free on the internet (if it isn't already), I might, at some point, possibly, perhaps, give it a skim. Maybe.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 09:49 GMT 

Joined: Tue October 2nd, 2007, 00:13 GMT
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Rimshottbob wrote:
If the lecture text is at some point shared for free on the internet (if it isn't already), I might, at some point, possibly, perhaps, give it a skim. Maybe.


Here you go: https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes ... cture.html

In order to get the full experience, be sure to first print it out, sign Bob's name to it, number it, and slide it into a commemorative case. If for some reason you do not have a commemorative case reserved for just such an occasion, have no fear. Kindly PM me your particulars and I will be sure to mail one out to you as soon as the cheque clears.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 10:44 GMT 

Joined: Sat October 3rd, 2009, 13:47 GMT
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The text of the nobel lecture can be found and read in the internet.
If you want to, you can print it and lay the text on your shelf.
Those who want to have the lecture in a book, can buy it now. 14 Euros aren't too much for a book. It's a normal price.
Those who suffer, because they want to have a numbered and signed book and complain about the price of 2500 dollars, should go to a doctor. If you really need the signed book, there is something wrong with you. If you are willing to pay lots of dollars or euros, although you aren't a millionaire, there is more than something wrong with you.
Those of us here, who a millionaires or don't know, where they can spend their money, can buy it (and for them, this special edition is produced, not for you common people with an average income, not for me. So the 2500 $ go from one millionaire to the other -there is no problem for no one!)
As every interested fan can get the content for free, there is absolutely no need to complain.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 11:11 GMT 
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The worst part of this to me are the utterly predictable attack comments we will have to stand now in and outside of this forum from the Dylan haters. They are not going to miss such a golden opportunity... :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 12:12 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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If somebody, other than a billionaire, is a big enough mug to pay anything like that kind of money for such a trivial item, while one can concurrently buy Blonde on Blonde, just one example of what Dylan is truly about, for a tenner, they should be enthusiastically facilitated. That way, they might learn something.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 12:33 GMT 

Joined: Tue October 2nd, 2007, 00:13 GMT
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WrittenInMySoul wrote:
Do we know that this was Bob's decision?
I think it's more like with BS the releases (there was a discussion about how much Bob is involved in those on this forum a couple of weeks ago):
somebody in the Dylan camp brought up the idea, maybe it was presented to Bob and he probably only said "Well, whatever...". Of course he will take the money that is made with this booklet (who wouldn't?), but somehow I can't imagine Bob really caring about business stuff like that.

Personally, I'm not even bothering with the 16 $ release. And I think somebody who is willing to spend 2,500 $ on this is a person with way too much money.


I used to think the same thing with respect to Bob being largely separate from Dylan Inc., but lately my view on the matter has shifted. While Bob certainly affects an aura of not giving a shit, I think the truth is he's at the very least more involved than he lets on.

Consider, for instance, this tidbit from Variety (http://variety.com/2017/music/features/ ... 202564358/), regarding the "Trouble No More" concert film, which premiered at the New York Film Festival a couple weeks ago and is being released as part of the Gospel Years box set:

Quote:
About three-fourths of the film consists of pro-shot videotape of the gospel material being performed at 1980 tour dates. Between the songs, meanwhile, actor Michael Shannon appears in newly shot scenes playing an evangelical preacher and reading freshly scripted sermons, a curious artistic choice that pays off in thematically contextualizing the vintage concert material.

[...]

A source in the Dylan camp says the idea to add a minister character amid the old footage came from Dylan himself.


As it happens, shortly after coming across that anecdote, I found this story from the great editor Robert Gottlieb, contained within the pages of his 2016 memoir "Avid Reader." Gottlieb was the President of the Knopf publishing house when it put out Dylan's second collection of lyrics in 1985. Here he details the involvement Dylan had with the project:

Quote:
I had agreed with Bob Dylan’s lawyer to publish a collection of his lyrics--to be called, oddly enough, Lyrics--that was to include his entire output of songs from 1961 to 1982. Once the text was organized and tweaked to Dylan’s satisfaction, there was a major bridge to cross: the book’s design. It was to include a number of his drawings, and he was very focused on how they, and it, would look, but he couldn’t or wouldn’t tell me what he had in mind. I asked Knopf’s hippest art director to come up with something and sent his elegant design for Dylan’s approval. His approval didn’t come, so I suggested we get together to talk about it, and since I didn’t want to expose him to the curiosity of the entire office, we decided he would come over to my house at lunchtime. Which he did, in his usual scruffy guise, actually not so different from my own scruffy guise. For twenty minutes or so, we danced around the subject of his visit, but he was tongue-tied--he couldn’t explain what he didn’t like about our design or articulate what direction he thought we should take next. Finally, in desperation, I told him I just had to have a clue, and after more backing and filling he managed to stammer out that maybe we could come up with something a little more … “Midwestern”?

With that clue, I turned to our chief book designer, Betty Anderson, a fragile aging lady from South Carolina who wore white gloves to the office and had lunch every day at the very ladylike Women’s Exchange. Betty had heard of Bob Dylan but had never heard any of his music, so I loaned her my complete collection of Dylan LPs and she bravely took herself off to see Dont [note: no apostrophe] Look Back, the D.A. Pennebaker documentary, which was being revived at some theater near her. She loved the music, she loved the movie, she loved Dylan, and she quickly came up with simple, handsome designs that I messengered to him downtown. Two hours later my private phone rang in my office. “Bob? Bob Dylan here. I got the designs. I love them. Don’t change a thing. Thank the lady.” I didn’t tell him that Betty was Southern, not Midwestern.


I think this gives a good indication of Bob's approach: not an obsessive level of micromanagement, but also by no means hands off.

Dylan's always been a student of history, particularly musical history. While I'm sure he'd recoil from the suggestion that he's overly concerned with his "legacy," I think it's fair to say that many of his actions over the years have been consistent with those of a man who is interested in ensuring that his contribution to the great American story is told in the way he wants it to be. The Dylan Archive in Tulsa, OK being perhaps the best example of this. I watched an interview with the Archive's curator in which he expressed complete amazement at the sheer number of personal artifacts Dylan had hung onto and cataloged over the decades. Nomad that he is, it really is remarkable how much of his stuff Bob was able to hold onto. And it's important to remember, at least in the beginning, this was Dylan who was holding onto this stuff, not his "people"; much of this hoarding long predates the arrival of Jeff Rosen. Just based on the volume of personal material that was turned over to Tulsa, it's evident that, whether he recognized it or not, Bob was planning for this museum for the better part of a half-century.

Add to that the Bootleg Series, No Direction Home, the fact that Dylan basically invented the box set with Biograph, the myriad of lyrics books beginning all the way back with Writings and Drawings...clearly this is a person who is not looking to be forgotten.

As for why he would blow off the pomp and circumstance of the Nobel ceremony, only to turn around a year later and sanction the publication of his lecture in the most ostentatious manner possible, only Bob knows the answer to that question. But if I had to guess, I'd say it's because he's battling the dual impulses of, a) actually caring about his legacy a great deal; and b) not wanting to be seen as caring about it at all.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 12:34 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
If somebody, other than a billionaire, is a big enough mug to pay anything like that kind of money for such a trivial item, while one can concurrently buy Blonde on Blonde, just one example of what Dylan is truly about, for a tenner, they should be enthusiastically facilitated. That way, they might learn something.

Given the two options you list, I'll take the signed lecture. If I never hear Blonde On Blonde again in this life time I won't miss it. The signed lecture, on the other hand, will likely appreciate in value.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 12:41 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 27th, 2016, 21:50 GMT
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remember when you're out there
tryin to heal the sick
that you must always first forgive them


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 13:01 GMT 

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Untrodden Path wrote:
The signed lecture, on the other hand, will likely appreciate in value.

Buy it and you'll see, that the value won't increase. They will sell 100 copies. That are too many and the starting price is too high for a signature and a number! You won't be the first who missjudges the chances of an investment in collector's items.
But who knows, perhaps someone will offer you 2510 $. Perhaps you'll have to flog it off for much less. Be sure, this lecture won't help your retirement pension.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 14:05 GMT 
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HopE wrote:
If you really need the signed book, there is something wrong with you. If you are willing to pay lots of dollars or euros, although you aren't a millionaire, there is more than something wrong with you.


Really???

And just who the hell are you to tell Bob Dylan fans what they can and cannot appreciate and purchase, regarding Bob Dylan?

Had you a brain, you would know that a Bob Dylan signed book of his Nobel lecture is called a valuable piece of ephemera. In other words, it is a personally signed historical document by one of the greatest songwriters in the history of the world, if not the greatest. ALL Bob Dylan original writings are quickly appreciating in value today, as we have seen from recent auctions of his lyrics.

You remind me of those people down south in the 1800's who were using a 13 pound gold nugget as a door stop.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 14:19 GMT 

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chrome horse wrote:
HopE wrote:
If you really need the signed book, there is something wrong with you. If you are willing to pay lots of dollars or euros, although you aren't a millionaire, there is more than something wrong with you.


Really???

And just who the hell are you to tell Bob Dylan fans what they can and cannot appreciate and purchase, regarding Bob Dylan?

Had you a brain, you would know that a Bob Dylan signed book of his Nobel lecture is called a valuable piece of ephemera. In other words, it is a personally signed historical document by one of the greatest songwriters in the history of the world, if not the greatest. ALL Bob Dylan original writings are quickly appreciating in value today, as we have seen from recent auctions of his lyrics.

You remind me of those people down south in the 1800's who were using a 13 pound gold nugget as a door stop.


http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... cture.html


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 14:19 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
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Location: Ireland
Untrodden Path wrote:
Mickvet wrote:
If somebody, other than a billionaire, is a big enough mug to pay anything like that kind of money for such a trivial item, while one can concurrently buy Blonde on Blonde, just one example of what Dylan is truly about, for a tenner, they should be enthusiastically facilitated. That way, they might learn something.

Given the two options you list, I'll take the signed lecture. If I never hear Blonde On Blonde again in this life time I won't miss it. The signed lecture, on the other hand, will likely appreciate in value.


Sorry, UP. In deference to you, and in the absence so far of any contemporary re-recording by Dylan of his sixties oeuvre, I should have taken a more recent example. Tempest, shall we say?


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 14:24 GMT 

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chrome horse wrote:
HopE wrote:
If you really need the signed book, there is something wrong with you. If you are willing to pay lots of dollars or euros, although you aren't a millionaire, there is more than something wrong with you.


Really???

And just who the hell are you to tell Bob Dylan fans what they can and cannot appreciate and purchase, regarding Bob Dylan?

Had you a brain, you would know that a Bob Dylan signed book of his Nobel lecture is called a valuable piece of ephemera. In other words, it is a personally signed historical document by one of the greatest songwriters in the history of the world, if not the greatest. ALL Bob Dylan original writings are quickly appreciating in value today, as we have seen from recent auctions of his lyrics.

You remind me of those people down south in the 1800's who were using a 13 pound gold nugget as a door stop.


I couldn't agree more that people should be free to spend their money on whatever they so choose.

But calling this a piece of original writing?

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cult ... cture.html


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 14:35 GMT 
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A bargain compared to the $10,000 harmonicas from a few years back.


I wish he weren't like that, didn't jump at so many opportunities to make a quick buck, didn't put his music in commercials, went to union rallies and stepped in personally to keep album prices reasonable for the fans who have made his extravagant life possible. But if he were like that he would be a different person...he might make lousy music and I'd rather not take the chance.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 15:04 GMT 

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smoke wrote:
A bargain compared to the $10,000 harmonicas from a few years back.


True, but those were blown by Bob, not just signed by him.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 15:44 GMT 

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chrome horse wrote:
HopE wrote:
If you really need the signed book, there is something wrong with you. If you are willing to pay lots of dollars or euros, although you aren't a millionaire, there is more than something wrong with you.
Really???
Really !!!!
chrome horse wrote:
And just who the hell are you to tell Bob Dylan fans what they can and cannot appreciate and purchase, regarding Bob Dylan?
I'm HopE and as HopE I can tell everything to every fan in this world.
chrome horse wrote:
Had you a brain, ....
I do have one
chrome horse wrote:
ALL Bob Dylan original writings are quickly appreciating in value today, as we have seen from recent auctions of his lyrics..
But not a simple signature. No original writing is offered.
chrome horse wrote:
You remind me of those people down south in the 1800's who were using a 13 pound gold nugget as a door stop.
You are a fan or an investor? Obviously you are the customer, every seller is looking for.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 18:26 GMT 

Joined: Sun January 4th, 2009, 10:44 GMT
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And why assume they’re signed by Bob? The only ad I’ve so far seen states “individually signed…”. Caveat emptor.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 18:54 GMT 

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Would make great Christmas gifts


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 20:40 GMT 

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He's had a long standing relationship with Simon & Schuster, so this shouldn't be much of a surprise. The signed copy of Lyrics was $5000. It's probably a very profitable relationship for both sides. Maybe one day, he'll give them Chronicles Volume 2, but if they get books like this and Lyrics, I doubt we'll see much pressure from the publisher.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 20:45 GMT 

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So much outrage! Me thinks you all doth protest too much.

I'll keep it real, if I was a guy with disposable income I would buy it just for the hell of it and not think twice. I would buy all kinds of shit. So what?

Rich people who have lots of money spend it on whatever. I may think that they should spend their money on world peace or solving hunger. So what? Maybe they are doing that also.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 22:58 GMT 
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jman wrote:
Rich people who have lots of money spend it on whatever. I may think that they should spend their money on world peace or solving hunger. So what? Maybe they are doing that also.
I think tha was part of the point with Christmas In the Heart.

Perhaps its time for the long awaited Christmas In the Heart, Volume 2?


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