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PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 23:43 GMT 
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''Things Have Changed'' has some classy lines in there,
but it's not in the top ten of Dylan's best songs ever surely?
Mississippi has a grandeur to it that appeals, and 'Highwater'
and 'Pay In Blood' are really good, 'Tin Angel' and 'Aint Talkin'
are very good, certainly in the same league if not higher in
overall quality than ''Things Have Changed'', but its true, there's
some killer lines in that song.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 01:02 GMT 
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LibraChild1980 wrote:
''Things Have Changed'' has some classy lines in there,
but it's not in the top ten of Dylan's best songs ever surely?



I wouldn't even consider it Top 100.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 03:48 GMT 

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Tragos114 wrote:
No.End of this thread.


^
Didn't bother reading past this


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 08:42 GMT 
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Bloodworm Baltimore French Fry wrote:
Old news to paste here, but it might be new to some of you:

There has been a number of discussions on message boards concerning the melodic similarities between Marty Stuart's 1999 "Observation of a Crow" and Bob Dylan's "Things Have Changed," which was recorded shortly afterwards. Stuart told American Songwriter magazine there is a reason for the resemblance, due to one night when he hung out with Dylan.

"I took him to my warehouse to see all the country music treasures I have," Stuart said. "Bob said, 'Hey, I like that 'Crow' song. I might borrow something out of that.' I said, 'Well, I probably borrowed it from you in the first place. Go ahead."

Watch Marty perform "Crow":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTVXPXZBbOU


The Observations Of A Crow
Marty Stuart

Damn. Exactly the same tune :(


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 10:16 GMT 
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It wouldn't surprise me if Bob hasn't written a single original melody in his life.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 10:42 GMT 
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McG wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Bob hasn't written a single original melody in his life.

That´s a bit of a stretch, innit?


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 11:31 GMT 

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On the subject of melodies (and chord structures) - where the x did In the Garden come from? Nothing like it before or since in the Bob canon.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 12:44 GMT 
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McG wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Bob hasn't written a single original melody in his life.


So, in other words, you are completely enthralled, and are a passionately devoted follower, of a complete fake and phony? What does that say about you?


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 15:11 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
McG wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if Bob hasn't written a single original melody in his life.


So, in other words, you are completely enthralled, and are a passionately devoted follower, of a complete fake and phony? What does that say about you?


Ask Bob


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 16:01 GMT 
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Bob has been consistent on this - a time honored tradition in music - recycling melodies, and he is right. And he also said - "You think it's easy? Try it, see how far you get". And he is right about that.

I would agree that "Things Have Changed" is one Bob's best modern era songs - I love it. The lyrics and music are terrific. His arrangements are great, and the song kind of orbits around in circles. And it meshes perfectly into the Dylan narrative. He went from "The Times they are a Changin" to "Things Have Changed".

The cheap shot artists always have a field day with Dylan - "his voice sucks", "he's a thief", "exploited trends" etc. etc. Of course, they ignore the worldwide success he has had, not to mention the Nobel Prize in Literature. With a lot of them, I think it's jealousy. And that he has made it look so easy probably drives a few of them nuts too. But that's OK - they deserve it.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 16:32 GMT 
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Is "Things Have Changed" Bob's Last Truly Great Song?

No


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 21:31 GMT 
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There's only so many chords and structures, especially in the blues/country/folk
world where Dylan mines his influences most.
Yes it sounds like that song wormington posted, but who used that
chord structure better? Dylan did, just like all his early none electric
album were borrowed from other songs.
Another glaring example, the late great Leonard Cohen made a critical
comeback with the album and song 'The Future', only, it had been
done before, as Chris Rea's road to hell.
No artist can claim to be entirely unique when using western chords
and notes, but if it worries you, think of it more an an ode to the
artists Dylan's lifting his ideas from.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 22:53 GMT 
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LibraChild1980 wrote:
Another glaring example, the late great Leonard Cohen made a critical
comeback with the album and song 'The Future', only, it had been
done before, as Chris Rea's road to hell.


Actually Cohen's critical comeback was 4 years earlier than the Future in 1988 with I'm Your Man. Besides, there isn't a significant resemblance between the song you posted and The Future. (minor 1-minor 4... which many songs share).


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 22:55 GMT 
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At this point I figure damn near every original melody or chord structure that can be played has been played in some genre or another. There's always variations and twists on it, but I doubt very much there's too many people out there capable of creating a truly original melody with most instruments we'd be familiar with. I mean even if you're not directly copying somebody intentionally I would just think that odds are SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE has played that melody before...whatever it is almost always.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 23:05 GMT 
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The thing is, Things Have Changed is one of those songs written by a bloke who knows how to write songs and goes ahead and writes one. Visions of Johanna, It's Alright Ma, Desolation Row - ok there is craft in there, but they kinda came 'through' the guy - he's said as much himself... "I can't do that anymore" or words to that effect... so no, it's not 'great', it's quite good.


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 23:13 GMT 
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yopietro wrote:
LibraChild1980 wrote:
Another glaring example, the late great Leonard Cohen made a critical
comeback with the album and song 'The Future', only, it had been
done before, as Chris Rea's road to hell.


Actually Cohen's critical comeback was 4 years earlier than the Future in 1988 with I'm Your Man. Besides, there isn't a significant resemblance between the song you posted and The Future. (minor 1-minor 4... which many songs share).


Sounds EXACTLY like The Road To Hell, you can get technical and name chord structure,
it's still very similar and enough that it's noticeable.
And it depends where you live as to where Cohen's critical comeback actually happened,
but please don't tell me that his 1988 album compared in publicity to his appearence
on the Natural Born Killers soundtrack.
In parts of Europe he'd never been away, i believe it was a while before Various Positions
was released in North America was it not?


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PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 23:20 GMT 
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The chords to 'Road To Hell'

A minor - D Minor - F - A minor

The chords to 'The Future'

A Minor - D Minor - E7 - D minor

....if you can't see/hear my point you're either a fan of one over the other
and are insulted at the comparison made, or your ears aren't working :P

PS If you play them at the same BPM they make a great medley that's
how close the two songs are...
I just strummed the two side by side to double check.


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PostPosted: Wed September 13th, 2017, 00:30 GMT 
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LibraChild1980 wrote:

And it depends where you live as to where Cohen's critical comeback actually happened,
but please don't tell me that his 1988 album compared in publicity to his appearence
on the Natural Born Killers soundtrack.


It's not about comparing to publicity. It's about the fact that he was mostly written off before he emerged with a new sound and a monumental album with I'm Your Man in 1988 which was hailed as return from exile of sorts. We can argue the merits of the albums in the late 70's and Various Positions, but I'm Your Man was his best-selling album in years in both the U.S. and in Europe and is universally considered his "comeback album."


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PostPosted: Wed September 13th, 2017, 00:37 GMT 
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LibraChild1980 wrote:
The chords to 'Road To Hell'

A minor - D Minor - F - A minor

The chords to 'The Future'

A Minor - D Minor - E7 - D minor

....if you can't see/hear my point you're either a fan of one over the other
and are insulted at the comparison made, or your ears aren't working :P

PS If you play them at the same BPM they make a great medley that's
how close the two songs are...
I just strummed the two side by side to double check.


Geez the first two chords of each verse are the same and the songs have a similar tempo. Doesn't take much does it?


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PostPosted: Wed September 13th, 2017, 00:52 GMT 
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I think we can agree to disagree, if you don't find the songs
similar that's fine, but i can hear it, and when i played them
both, they fit together like hand in glove.

Re Cohen, i guess it's not really the place to remark on other
artists in too great a detail, lots of countries in Europe were
quite happy with Cohen's albums up-to and including 'Im Your Man',
his 1985 Euro shows were successful, but however many bridges
the '88 album may have built in the eyes of the press, Cohen wasn't
filling larger venues until 'The Future' came out, least not here in the UK.
Also, Im Your Man wasn't 'new' ground musically for Cohen, the Synth
dominated Various Positions too, and his voice had already dropped
what seems like an octave by that albums release, its just the north
Americans wouldn't have known that because his label wrote him off
in that territory, and refused to release it.
(I'm assuming you're American or Canadian? I only say that with your
use of the 'Geez' phrase, it's not commonly used over here)


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