Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Sat December 16th, 2017, 22:44 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 19:44 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1927
Location: Ireland
McG wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

Yes. I am. And for all your self-perceived smartness, you have a very poor sense of irony.

Personal insult is the last resort of those who have nothing to say. This isn't quite you-you essentially say the same one thing, over and over and over...


Thanks Mick, hope you're well and the vet business is blooming. Or maybe that's floristry.

An American educating a Brit about irony! Oh the delicious ironing.


You do need education, you arrogant Brit. I'm an Irishman, have lived in Ireland all my life. When it comes to irony, we always bought and sold you lot, it was about all you left us. Now, grow up, learn some little thing and you might stop making a tedious fool of yourself after a few years practice.

My location is even described for you under my username. Are you a 'robot' or simply the idiot you appear to be? (And my invective can't be defined as insult; I'm merely forensically stating the facts on the ground).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 20:12 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 1537
Mickvet wrote:

You do need education, you arrogant Brit. I'm an Irishman, have lived in Ireland all my life. When it comes to irony, we always bought and sold you lot, it was about all you left us. Now, grow up, learn some little thing and you might stop making a tedious fool of yourself after a few years practice.

My location is even described for you under my username. Are you a 'robot' or simply the idiot you appear to be? (And my invective can't be defined as insult; I'm merely forensically stating the facts on the ground).


Sorry, I was under the impression you were a Trump supporter, so assumed you were American. I may have got you mixed up with one of the other complete mentalists here though, so apologies for that. Doesn't make you any less of a complete mentalist though, if you actually choose voluntarily to listen to Under The Red Sky, let alone enjoy it. Shudder.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 20:17 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1927
Location: Ireland
McG wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

You do need education, you arrogant Brit. I'm an Irishman, have lived in Ireland all my life. When it comes to irony, we always bought and sold you lot, it was about all you left us. Now, grow up, learn some little thing and you might stop making a tedious fool of yourself after a few years practice.

My location is even described for you under my username. Are you a 'robot' or simply the idiot you appear to be? (And my invective can't be defined as insult; I'm merely forensically stating the facts on the ground).


Sorry, I was under the impression you were a Trump supporter, so assumed you were American. I may have got you mixed up with one of the other complete mentalists here though, so apologies for that. Doesn't make you any less of a complete mentalist though, if you actually choose voluntarily to listen to Under The Red Sky, let alone enjoy it. Shudder.


You're not in a position to lecture me, or anyone, about mental function. You should check out that incipient confusion of yours. I've heard that drugs can slow it down for some people.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 20:20 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 1537
Mickvet wrote:

You're not in a position to lecture me, or anyone, about mental function. You should check out that incipient confusion of yours. I've heard that drugs can slow it down for some people.


It's not a lecture, it's a statement of fact.

Just to be straight - are you a Trump supporter?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 20:29 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1927
Location: Ireland
McG wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

You're not in a position to lecture me, or anyone, about mental function. You should check out that incipient confusion of yours. I've heard that drugs can slow it down for some people.


It's not a lecture, it's a statement of fact.

Just to be straight - are you a Trump supporter?


I admire him. He's better than any of the alternatives. Not that that says much. Now, off you go and insult me again, and you can throw in lots of virtue-signalling to make yourself feel good too. I won't be continuing this discussion, however, as it's political and completely irrelevant to the thread.

Oh, and the only 'statement of fact' is your own self-confirmation of your stupidity, one who can't distinguish an Irishman from an American, even when there's an irrefutible written clue. It is also clueless and adolescent to mistake your assertions about the album under discussion for a proven case.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 20:33 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 1537
Fair enough, glad I wasn't losing it completely then.

You're right, we should let allow others to discuss this craptacular album.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 22:15 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu January 24th, 2008, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 17949
Location: Where the swift don't win the race
I don't see anything wrong with Under the Red Sky aside from it not being long enough but that said, when going to the shelf to find something to listen to this always brings a smile to the face. This is an album that I can listen to, even sing along to. Additionally, I never have the urge to rip off my ears like I used to when listening to the albums that preceeded Before the Flood.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 23:12 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu August 17th, 2017, 20:00 GMT
Posts: 757
Location: Manchester England
McG wrote:
Fair enough, glad I wasn't losing it completely then.

You're right, we should let allow others to discuss this craptacular album.


Aw McG that feels like a cop out :( Can't you at least venture what it is
in part that you hate about the album. Or if any of the songs when played
live are acceptable to you. I can't and won't defend 'Wiggle Wiggle', but there's
some fine songs, 'Born In Time', 'God Knows', and although 'Unbelievable'
is THE worst choice for a single and video, the two songs i mentioned, do
you have any love at all for those?
I do get that there's other music you prefer and do listen to and probably
don't play Under A Red Sky even for a reminder on how much you dislike it,
but i really did wonder what put you off the album as strongly as you have been.

Would you concede that "Under the Red Sky", "Born in Time", "God Knows"
and "T.V. Talkin' Song" would've made a good EP minus the lesser material?
No worries if you're done talking about it, but your dislike was such that i was
intrigued as to what it was about the album in part or whole that you particiluarly
cannot stand.

For me, the weaker tracks do drag it down, there's no excuses can be made for
''Wiggle Wiggle'', or ''Handy Dandy'', and although Dylan played/s ''Cats In The Well''
now and then, i can't see the inner quality of that either, and i'm still trying to
figure out ''2 X 2'' and ''10,000 Men'', musically they're not amazing but also not
totally rubbish, i just haven't read a translation of meaning that made any impact on me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon September 11th, 2017, 23:59 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri April 29th, 2016, 01:44 GMT
Posts: 857
Location: Heck
Image

Pretty cool album cover. Wouldn't want to mess with that guy if I came across him. You know he's planning something devious and he doesn't know if he is morally able to do it. You know that Frankie Lee and Judas Priest are right around the corner about to face the trials of life. Idk guys


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 00:06 GMT 

Joined: Mon June 27th, 2016, 21:50 GMT
Posts: 793
when i hear people say that
they don't like wiggle wiggle
i always think:
i don't believe you -
you're a liar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 00:19 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 15th, 2011, 02:23 GMT
Posts: 21441
Well, let's take another serious look.

Four very good songs:
Born in Time, T.V. Talkin' Song, a modern-day Black Diamond Bay; 10,000 Men & God Knows.

Some great guest appearances too!
David Crosby, Robben Ford, Harrison, Hornsby, Elton John, Al Kooper, David Lindley, the Vaughn Brothers!

Looks more impressive in writing than it really is.

Not a bad album relative to the Sinatra stuff.



All tracks written by Bob Dylan.

Side 1
No. Title Length
1. "Wiggle Wiggle" 2:09
2. "Under the Red Sky" 4:09
3. "Unbelievable" 4:06
4. "Born in Time" 3:39
5. "T.V. Talkin' Song" 3:02

Side 2
No. Title Length
6. "10,000 Men" 4:21
7. "2 × 2" 3:36
8. "God Knows" 3:02
9. "Handy Dandy" 4:03
10. "Cat's in the Well" 3:21


Personnel

Bob Dylan – acoustic and electric guitar, piano, accordion, harmonica, vocals, production

Additional musicians:
Kenny Aronoff – drums
Sweet Pea Atkinson – backing vocals
Rayse Biggs – trumpet
Sir Harry Bowens – backing vocals
David Crosby – backing vocals
Paulinho Da Costa – percussion
Robben Ford – guitar
George Harrison – slide guitar
Bruce Hornsby – piano
Randy "The Emperor" Jackson – bass guitar
Elton John – piano
Al Kooper – organ, keyboards
David Lindley – bouzouki, guitar, slide guitar
David McMurray – saxophone
Donald Ray Mitchell – backing vocals
Jamie Muhoberac – organ
Jimmie Vaughan – guitar
Stevie Ray Vaughan – guitar
Waddy Wachtel – guitar
David Was – backing vocals, production
Don Was – bass guitar, production


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 00:52 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 15th, 2011, 02:23 GMT
Posts: 21441
Also, I don't think I've ever heard the outtake,
"Shirley Temple Doesn't Live Here Anymore"
Any links?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 12:32 GMT 

Joined: Sun November 13th, 2016, 02:00 GMT
Posts: 290
A very good album.
I don't see what all the fuss is about.

This album gets trashed the way Empire Burlesque should be instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 17:15 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri April 29th, 2016, 01:44 GMT
Posts: 857
Location: Heck
Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Some great guest appearances too!
David Crosby, Robben Ford, Harrison, Hornsby, Elton John, Al Kooper, David Lindley, the Vaughn Brothers!

Looks more impressive in writing than it really is.

Not a bad album relative to the Sinatra stuff.


Triplicate is a thousand times better than this album. The guest appearances do nothing for this album.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue September 12th, 2017, 18:12 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri February 10th, 2006, 12:23 GMT
Posts: 2338
Triplicate is a thousand times better than this album. The guest appearances do nothing for this album.[/quote]


As I said earlier Under the red sky was kind of my first Bob album so I am sentimental to it, but I agree with you All of the last three albums are better than UTRS.

All the American songbook albums are vastly underated by Dylan fans but like albums like Self Portrait people will warm to them eventually, sadly itll be after Bob leaves us and we actually appreciate his later work a bit more than we do now especially when there wont be any new albums to look forward to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 13th, 2017, 12:37 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 10th, 2016, 12:46 GMT
Posts: 1537
So bad even Bob takes a dump on the cover.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed September 13th, 2017, 14:52 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 14th, 2009, 10:13 GMT
Posts: 2326
Location: Venice London
- If you bought the album when it came out in 1990, what did you originally think of it?

I thought it was another disappointment, following on the Empire-Knocked-Down-Mercy line.
I immediately liked Red Sky and Handy Dandy, little of the rest.
I thought Infidels - Jokerman, actually - was bound to remain his last great record.
(at the time, fortunately, my Dylan faith was still being fed by Biograph and, in a few days, the Bootleg Series would give me even more)


- Did the previous album Oh Mercy influence your opinion? Did anyone consider it a disappointing follow up or an improvement?

An opinion is of course influenced by the environment you've got around you.
Had it been published between Bringing and Highway or Blood and Desire, it would have been a disgrace, obviously.
After masterpieces the likes of You Wanna Ramble and Political World, the pain was mitigated, obviously; we saw it coming, in other words.
At any rate, as I said in another thread, after some seconds I had the impression it was even worse than Oh!Mercy, but personally I liked it more.
And my approach has remained the same.
I think *Oh!Mercy* is better, objectively.
But I like *Under The Sky* more.
In Mercy I've got only Black Coat; the rest is forgettable, to me.
In Under I've got at least 2 songs which have remained among my favs.


- If it isn't a favorite album, how does Under the Red Sky compare to your favorite Dylan albums?

A decent record.
Miles under the 3 holy trilogies of the 60's and the 70s.
Miles above the painfully weak Dylan of these last decades.


- (To anyone who likes the album) when Time Out of Mind was released, what was your reaction to a new album of original songs?

A great collection of lyrics.
Unfortunately put to music by an artist by then incapable of conjecturing attractive melodies a-la Lowlands, RollingStone and/or Hurricane.
A great album for the critics.
A decent album for the average listener.
A disappointment for those (me! :) ) who were/are in love with the laureate poet of rock'n roll.
(from Freewheelin to Jokerman)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue November 21st, 2017, 06:31 GMT 

Joined: Sat May 16th, 2009, 23:14 GMT
Posts: 356
Location: Ratingen, Germany
LUCKY wrote:
actually, always been a fav...i saw it as talking perhaps an obtuse view of the world...
from the birth of the world ( wiggle wiggle wiggle) to birth, and rebirth and Born In Time
songs of war(10000 men)
and songs of escape(2x2)
its UNBELIEVABE(strange but true)...!
GOD KNOWS, perhaps again, a look at this world we live in
and TV TALKN SONG, a bit of all the news all the time
HandyDandy always has confused me, but one of my favs....but WHO i ask WHO
had Dandy MR Dylan ?
and perhaps one of his best parting words to end ..
good night my love, my the lord have mercy on us all
Love it as well, think it was the first dylan I got interested in, of course I knew the classics, vaguely, from my father, but this one, interested me, all the rest came thereafter. Still more of a post (and including) slow train coming fan then anything before (knopfler participation has a lot to do with that though)

sent from my Samsung galaxy 7edge via tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue November 21st, 2017, 12:53 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon July 31st, 2006, 09:13 GMT
Posts: 2141
Location: out on Decatur Hill
LibraChild1980 wrote:
Ive never bought this nursery rhyme stuff.
It's biblical, 'under a red sky' the album title and main song to me is adam and eve, plus listen to the lyrics ..
''God knows there's gonna be no more water, but fire next time''...the fire being the next coming of christ, fire from the sky,
ie under a red sky.
Most if not all the songs have a religious backdrop.
I think the album was dedicated to Gabby Goo or some name Bob had for one of his
children at the time, but 'TV Talkin Song', 'God Knows', 'Under A Red Sky', 'Born In Time',
how people can determine these songs to be nursery rhymes is beyond me.
And even the track that comes under the most flack on the album is pretty dark,

''Wiggle, you can raise the dead''
''Wiggle till you're high, wiggle till you're higher
Wiggle till you vomit fire''
''Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, rattle and shake
Wiggle like a big fat snake''

To me anyway, this album is a biblical end of days album, and whether Dylan has
dismissed that idea (no idea what he has or hasn't said about the album, if anything)
it is clearly written in words, its no album for children that's for sure, and way darker
than 'Oh Mercy' lyrically.


Great post! Thank you!

"Wiggle Wiggle" is actually Howlin' Wolf's original studio version of "Evil" sped up and with new lyrics (with a little bit of Jerry Lee Lewis' "Cool Cool Ways/Sexy Ways" thrown in), which makes the song even more interesting, I think.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue November 21st, 2017, 17:26 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue November 2nd, 2004, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 1695
Location: Bordils, Girona, Catalunya, Spain
For me, it seems that Bob had some interesting songs but when it came time to record it he hadn't the appropiate mood. Someone (maybe himself) decided to make an all-star-collaboration album and I guess that contributed to make Bob unconfortable. He doesn't sing as good as he use to do, he sounds bored, and some songs seem unfinished.

Anyway, for me Under the red sky (a nice strange silly song), Unbelievable (powerful), Born in time (good arrangement and more finished than in the Oh mercy outtakes, but a pity he doesn't sing better), Handy Dandy (sounds funny) and Cat's in the well (it worked well live in the following years) make the album worth. Definitely not among his best, but hey, it's still Bob Dylan!

If you bought the album when it came out in 1990, what did you originally think of it?
More or less the same.

Did the previous album Oh Mercy influence your opinion? Did anyone consider it a disappointing follow up or an improvement?

I don't think so. It's a bit disappointing, but Oh mercy is so great for me that I wasn't expecting something similar every time.

If it isn't a favorite album, how does Under the Red Sky compare to your favorite Dylan albums?
It's a different thing. As I said before, it's still Bob, but it isn't an album to show to someone who doesn't already like him.

(To anyone who likes the album) when Time Out of Mind was released, what was your reaction to a new album of original songs?

I answer as I somewhat like Under the red sky, but, like Oh mercy, Time out of Mind is SOOOO great that can't compare.

(To anyone who dislikes the album) was Time Out of Mind was released, was it the "return to form" you were hoping for after UTRS?
Again, I answer as i somewhat dislike it. Yes. It was definitely a return to form. But more for what was between Under the Red Sky and Time Out of Mind (no new songs) than for any other thing. Time Out of Mind is comparable to Oh Mercy, but not with Under the Red Sky. But that's no problem to listen to it some time.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue November 21st, 2017, 20:10 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 383
Under the Red Sky was universally slated in the press at the time, largely due to the deceptively simple lyrics (and the tendency for lazy critics to copy each other). I actually ignored the album for years, but eventually discovered it has some very good minor songs on it. It also has some real stinkers, and a couple of tracks that seem like missed opportunities.

Good: Born in Time, Under the Red Sky, Handy Dandy, Cat's in the Well.

Had promise but didn't pan out: T.V. Talkin' Song, God Knows.

Stinkers: Unbelievable, 10,000 Men, 2 × 2.

Where does that leave the notorious 'Wiggle Wiggle', the song that more than any other torpedoed this album's critical reception? I like it, a bit. It's so obviously, brazenly 'dumb' that it doesn't matter.

Overall, UTRS was bound to be a big disappointment after Oh Mercy, but to be honest there are tarcks here I play more often, and have played more times over the years, than anythiing on Oh Mercy - Handy Dandy, in particular. And I would rather have this album than the wildly over-rated, bloated, mono-dimensional stodge of Modern Times.

Lear: "What! art mad? A man may see how this world goes with no eyes. Look with thine ears: see how yond justice rails upon yon simple thief. Hark, in thine ear: change places; and, handy-dandy, which is the justice, which is the thief? Thou hast seen a farmer’s dog bark at a beggar?"

Handy Dandy, he got a basket of flowers and a bag full of sorrow
He finishes his drink, he gets up from the table, he says
“Okay, boys, I’ll see you tomorrow”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibE2TeQaKdE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed November 22nd, 2017, 09:23 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 3rd, 2010, 17:44 GMT
Posts: 1164
I think for anyone who wasn't in to the Dylan output of the 1980's (that's people like me who didn't appreciate the bulk of the Gospel Era) or who were running out of patience after Empire Burlesque, Knocked Out Loaded, Down In The Groove and Dylan and the Dead the next release 'Oh Mercy' was something of a god send.
At long last, our hero was back on track with some fine songs and somewhat saved his reputation. Whatever you think of Lanois production that album was streets ahead of what had come before.
So after that, expectations were high that 'Under The Red Sky' would carry on building on the foundation that 'Oh Mercy' had set. Unfortunately, it didn't and I think that is why the album is not remembered more fondly. A lot of it is pretty awful to be fair.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed November 22nd, 2017, 17:21 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue October 4th, 2005, 21:01 GMT
Posts: 375
I bought it when it first came out. It was my first "New Dylan" Album.
I hated it at first, but it's grown on me.

It will never be one of his classics/masterpieces. But many of the songs work really well in Concert. God Knows, Unbelievable and Born in Time are all very nice live (and seemed to be common in the 94-96 shows).

By comparison, I can't stand Oh Mercy anymore (too ponderous, pretentious and slow).

Handy Dandy remains one of my favorite songs. I love his performance on the album.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed November 22nd, 2017, 18:04 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 1st, 2014, 19:16 GMT
Posts: 4161
Location: Beyond The Horizon.
McG wrote:
So bad even Bob takes a dump on the cover.


And as we say here in Liverpool

' No matter how much icing sugar you put on a dog turd, it doe's not a birthday cake make'.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed November 22nd, 2017, 18:38 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 383
Mickvet wrote:
Just to be straight - are you a Trump supporter?

I admire him.


Then I would respectfully suggest that you have no place on this forum, or in being a Dylan fan. Trump is a white supremacist goon who ran, and was elected based on, a fascist campaign.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 64 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group