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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 09:22 GMT 
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Drawing the line to Shakespeare 'The Tempest' which was his last play. Is Tempest supposed to be Dylans last album (of originals at least).

Any thoughts on this parallel? Will it mean only 'American standards' from now on until he stops?


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 14:01 GMT 
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To paraphrase Michael Corleone, he's been releasing his final album for twenty years.


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 15:18 GMT 
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I'm feeling pretty positive that there will be at least one more album of original songs.


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 16:00 GMT 

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Quote:
Dylan's mention of Shakespeare raises a question. The playwright's final work was called The Tempest, and some have already asked: Is Dylan's Tempest intended as a last work by the now 71-year-old artist? Dylan is dismissive of the suggestion. "Shakespeare's last play was called The Tempest. It wasn't called just plain Tempest. The name of my record is just plain Tempest. It's two different titles."

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... t-20120801


That said, I don't know how often he plans to release albums with new songs. He definitely waits until he's comfortable with the amount of content. We've had new songs in 1997, 2001, 2006, 2009 and 2012. I would imagine his record company and touring promoters are itching for new material. Especially with the Nobel prize, a new album could be an event. Modern Times and Together Through Life both hit the top of the charts. Following the release of Modern Times and Tempest, he hit some bigger venues on the tour.


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 18:17 GMT 

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No mas


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 18:37 GMT 

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There's got to be another album. Would be so interesting if he continues the vibe of the last few albums but with originals


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 18:44 GMT 
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This was suggested by many a writer around the time of the release, and I remember Bob saying something about his album being just 'Tempest' rather than 'THE Tempest', so I think he's rubbishing the whole thing about it being his last album right there - I hope he's right though...


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 20:28 GMT 
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Dylan's mention of Shakespeare raises a question. The playwright's final work was called The Tempest, and some have already asked: Is Dylan's Tempest intended as a last work by the now 71-year-old artist? Dylan is dismissive of the suggestion. "Shakespeare's last play was called The Tempest. It wasn't called just plain Tempest. The name of my record is just plain Tempest. It's two different titles."


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-on-his-dark-new-album-tempest-20120801


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 20:36 GMT 
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What rock have you been under for 5 years?


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 21:23 GMT 
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Nightingale's Code wrote:
What rock have you been under for 5 years?


I think OP's referring to last original album


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 21:31 GMT 
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Hibbing91 wrote:
I think OP's referring to last original album

Exactly. This very theory has been posted here many times since Tempest was announced.


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PostPosted: Sun August 6th, 2017, 22:53 GMT 
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dvdunplugged wrote:
I'm feeling pretty positive that there will be at least one more album of original songs.


Original intertexts, like.


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PostPosted: Tue August 8th, 2017, 03:30 GMT 

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The Tempest wasn't Shakespeare's last play. We've still got The Two Noble Kinsmen and Henry VIII to look forward to before Bob calls it quits.


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PostPosted: Tue August 8th, 2017, 07:35 GMT 

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mojofilter wrote:
The Tempest wasn't Shakespeare's last play. We've still got The Two Noble Kinsmen and Henry VIII to look forward to before Bob calls it quits.
So, Shakespeare signed off with one classic, and two substandard efforts.

Hmm.


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PostPosted: Tue August 8th, 2017, 09:58 GMT 
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There’s a degree of difficulty to this whole last play/album concept. The Tempest was not Shakespeare’s last play, that much we know. To be entirely pedantic about it, apart from The Famous History of the Life of Henry the Eighth (All Is True) and The Two Noble Kinsmen already mentioned, both from 1613, the lost play Cardenio (1612) also came after The Tempest. Furthermore, there is no objective evidence for the order in which Shakespeare wrote The Tempest, Cymbeline or The Winter’s Tale which all received their first recorded performances in 1611.

So why the popular belief that The Tempest was Shakespeare’s last play? Partly it’s the seductive identification of Shakespeare with Prospero the wizard who orchestrates much of the action in the play and the fact that the character relinquishes his magical powers and leaves his island, in the play that’s two beautiful speeches and the epilogue. The problem with these as an allegory of Shakespeare the playwright is that Prospero isn’t retiring he’s regaining his position as Duke of Milan (becoming “absolute Milan” as he so brilliantly puts it) and secondly, early modern playwrights didn’t write autobiographically (to think otherwise would be anachronistic), their talent, what their paying customers came to see, was for presenting stories propelled by characters with strongly competing views and arguments and in using dazzling forensic and rhetorical skills to resolve them. Biographically, in 1613 at the time they were putting on All Is True and The Two Noble Kinsmen Shakespeare bought his first house in London, up ‘til then he’d been renting or been a lodger. His house was really close to his theatre company’s Blackfriars Theatre, which doesn’t make it look like he was planning on distancing himself from the theatrical life.

Likewise, Dylan’s Tempest is not his last album. I don’t think Dylan, just like Shakespeare would consciously plan such a thing. It’s romantic to think that great creative artists are able to shape their works into some sublime overarching structure of wisdom and acceptance that we can all follow and understand, but it’s not true, life and art go on until they don't, only then are we left with last things. Shakespeare knew that, Dylan knows that. Will didn’t plan The Tempest to be his last play, Bob didn’t plan Tempest as his last album.


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PostPosted: Tue August 8th, 2017, 21:37 GMT 
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Somebody Naked wrote:
To paraphrase Michael Corleone, he's been releasing his final album for twenty years.


Well thought. I think he must have in mind every album could be the last, but I don't think he won't ever make a decision to any album be his last. It simply will happen (hopefully in a very long time from now).

Even people like Leonard Cohen or David Bowie I guess they knew that You want it darker and Blackstar were their final albums in the moment of the release and probably they even had it in mind during the recording, but they didn't deicide it and probably hoped to have time for another that wasn't.

And I'm sure if You asked Dylan about it would find it absurd, as he would tell You his last album by now is Triplicate, not Tempest, so the question has no sense.


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PostPosted: Wed August 9th, 2017, 09:00 GMT 
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twilight wrote:
I would imagine his record company and touring promoters are itching for new material. Especially with the Nobel prize, a new album could be an event. Modern Times and Together Through Life both hit the top of the charts. Following the release of Modern Times and Tempest, he hit some bigger venues on the tour.


Fo' shizzle... just realized that's a lot of pressure. If I were Bob I'd have performance anxiety for a new album. :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu August 10th, 2017, 19:58 GMT 
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Oh yeah there'll be more and Tempest definitely was not 'supposed' to be his last album.

Anybody else still holding onto the dream that he already has one in the bag, produced by Lanois in December?

Still seems possible to me; SITN, FA, and Triplicate were all released over a year after they were recorded. Perhaps it exists and he's kept it in the bag for so long because they had to make room in the release schedule to release Triplicate.

Anyways we'll see but whatever/whenever it is, I think it's going to be just great.


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PostPosted: Fri August 11th, 2017, 00:09 GMT 
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charlesdarwin wrote:
There’s a degree of difficulty to this whole last play/album concept. The Tempest was not Shakespeare’s last play, that much we know. To be entirely pedantic about it, apart from The Famous History of the Life of Henry the Eighth (All Is True) and The Two Noble Kinsmen already mentioned, both from 1613, the lost play Cardenio (1612) also came after The Tempest. Furthermore, there is no objective evidence for the order in which Shakespeare wrote The Tempest, Cymbeline or The Winter’s Tale which all received their first recorded performances in 1611.

So why the popular belief that The Tempest was Shakespeare’s last play? Partly it’s the seductive identification of Shakespeare with Prospero the wizard who orchestrates much of the action in the play and the fact that the character relinquishes his magical powers and leaves his island, in the play that’s two beautiful speeches and the epilogue. The problem with these as an allegory of Shakespeare the playwright is that Prospero isn’t retiring he’s regaining his position as Duke of Milan (becoming “absolute Milan” as he so brilliantly puts it) and secondly, early modern playwrights didn’t write autobiographically (to think otherwise would be anachronistic), their talent, what their paying customers came to see, was for presenting stories propelled by characters with strongly competing views and arguments and in using dazzling forensic and rhetorical skills to resolve them. Biographically, in 1613 at the time they were putting on All Is True and The Two Noble Kinsmen Shakespeare bought his first house in London, up ‘til then he’d been renting or been a lodger. His house was really close to his theatre company’s Blackfriars Theatre, which doesn’t make it look like he was planning on distancing himself from the theatrical life.

Likewise, Dylan’s Tempest is not his last album. I don’t think Dylan, just like Shakespeare would consciously plan such a thing. It’s romantic to think that great creative artists are able to shape their works into some sublime overarching structure of wisdom and acceptance that we can all follow and understand, but it’s not true, life and art go on until they don't, only then are we left with last things. Shakespeare knew that, Dylan knows that. Will didn’t plan The Tempest to be his last play, Bob didn’t plan Tempest as his last album.


Nice to see Charles' buttons getting pushed in other ways than wiping noses & breaking up schoolyard brawls. Good post!


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PostPosted: Fri August 11th, 2017, 07:02 GMT 
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Loose Fur wrote:
Anybody else still holding onto the dream that he already has one in the bag, produced by Lanois in December?


Fo' sho'!


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PostPosted: Fri August 11th, 2017, 11:52 GMT 

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Didn't Mavis Staples mention that Bob wants her to sing on his next record?


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PostPosted: Fri August 11th, 2017, 14:13 GMT 
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Maybe... I hope there'll be another one but.. I wouldn't be that disappointed if Tempest happens to be his last album. I personally thinks it is a strong album, Long and Wasted Years is one of my all-time favorites.


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PostPosted: Sat August 12th, 2017, 08:18 GMT 

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mojofilter wrote:
The Tempest wasn't Shakespeare's last play. We've still got The Two Noble Kinsmen and Henry VIII to look forward to before Bob calls it quits.


And Cardenio.

Plus, there is no proof at all that the Tempest came after The Winter's Tale (or even Cymbeline). The people who keep stating it are the pushers of the "Prospero-as-Shakespeare" line (even though that kind of autobiographical approach to writing was unknown in the 16th Century and not to be thought of as a valid approach for hundreds of years to come.) They create a circular argument. 'The Tempest must be Shakespeare's last "real" work as it has him saying "goodbye" via Prospero at the end......It has him saying goodbye via Prospero at the end so The Tempest must be his last work." And round and round this goes.

The last scenes of both The Winter's Tale and Cymbeline would be excellent farewell scenes too - the first deeply profound and meta-theatrical, the latter hysterically self undercutting and meta-theatrical. Not that authors wrote self farewells anyway and not that any of these were his last work.

All of this is rather moot, however, as Dylan goes along with the theory that The Tempest was definitely his last play. It may have been his last solo authored play and has come to be accepted by many as such but with no corroborating, objective proof to back that up. However, as far as the debate the OP has reopened it is what one believes is in Dylan's mind that matters.

EDIT: Didn't see Charles's quoted post above until typing this, apologies. Also, I probably wrote something like the above in a previous thread, too..........ah well.


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PostPosted: Sat August 12th, 2017, 11:08 GMT 
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Don't worry about it, even homerthes nods, as they say.
Glad to see we're essentially on the same page anyway. :)

Another example of the circular argument homerthes alludes to is that until comparatively recently Prospero was widely regarded as a wise, benevolent character with an intimate and forgiving understanding of human nature, exactly as Shakespeare himself was imagined, so Prospero must be Shakespeare, stands to reason, therefore Shakespeare must be Prospero. Now Prospero is often portrayed less flatteringly as an impatient, grudge-bearing, irascible old colonialist who has enslaved the indigenous population of the island.


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PostPosted: Sun August 13th, 2017, 17:05 GMT 

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charlesdarwin wrote:
Don't worry about it, even homerthes nods, as they say.
Glad to see we're essentially on the same page anyway. :)

Another example of the circular argument homerthes alludes to is that until comparatively recently Prospero was widely regarded as a wise, benevolent character with an intimate and forgiving understanding of human nature, exactly as Shakespeare himself was imagined, so Prospero must be Shakespeare, stands to reason, therefore Shakespeare must be Prospero. Now Prospero is often portrayed less flatteringly as an impatient, grudge-bearing, irascible old colonialist who has enslaved the indigenous population of the island.


Yes, that was another daft and circular argument with very little to base it upon.

Also, as far as the Prospero as a force and figure of colonialism goes - I've never seen how that fits in with him being put out to sea to die, being washed up on the island and staying there. Colonial rulers tend to sail there on purpose, steal the native resources and treasures and ship them back to the home country and so forth.... something of a weak analogy that one. Seems to be a popular interpretation nonetheless.


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