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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 14:28 GMT 

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"Why I haven't bought Triplicate" - because I've lost all interest in what Dylan is doing.

goodnitesteve makes an interesting point above - why like "Moonlight" but not this stuff?

I'll try and answer. When "Love and Theft" appeared it was a huge and refreshing change from what Dylan had done before. The songs like "Moonlight" and "Bye and Bye" were completely different to what he'd done before, and he mixed in several other styles on the alterate songs. The album sounds like someone throwing every style they've ever heard and loved, and Dylan seems to be present in every style. And the band was so unbelievably brilliant (I think Kemper and Campbell blow away Recelli, Kimball and Herron). The band swings, and it hasn't swung since then.

I found Modern Times hugely disappointing. It was an attempt to repeat the "Love and Theft" trick and it fails. I love "Moonlight" and I don't like "Spirit of the Water" or "Beyond the Horizon". For a while I used to listen to a version of Modern Times which involved listening only to alternate tracks. Then I stopped entirely. I think it is to self-conscious an attempt - too studied.

Together Through Life was also a disappointing. It had a bit more life to it, but seemed under-developed with some very boring and routine songs.

Tempest - I really tried to like it, but it wore me out. It just doesn't work for me. It seems a fairly conscious effort to start doing again what he used to do, and he fails.

And since then, Sinatra covers. I'd lost interest in Dylan crooning on the Bing Crosy songs on Modern Times - albums and albums of stuff like "Beyond The Horizon" is simply painful.

And there is so much MORE music in the world than Dylan. He has made the best albums ever, but there is so much music that is better than Modern Times let alone the stuff that has come since. Why listen to Triplicate when you could listen to something else?

I may be bizarre, but my favourite Dylan album since "Love and Theft" is Christmas in The Heart. And that's because it is so incredibly weird. The Sinatra stuff isn't weird, it doesn't involve Dylan doing anything he hasn't done before, and it is so tame.


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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 18:55 GMT 
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Take It Easy Fred wrote:
I for one am greatly relieved that my earballs are attuned to the majesticness and grandiosity of that great album heretofore referred to by that interesting acronyminomical moniker of "JWH".

I hope, Mr. Bjotk, my good man, that your current opinion on the matter will later undergo a radical metamorphosis, and be, for lack of a better term, transfigurated. I think it's quite a nice album meself.


Hmmm... I never knew JWH had such love. Would y'all place JWH above say, Desire or Slow Train? Or just above Oh Mercy or Saved? Cause there's a big difference. I.e. the best of passable Bob or best of best Bob. If you catch my drift.

I'm not trashing JWH. 'Frankie Lee and Judas Priest' was long one of my all time favourite songs. 'Down along the Cove' is a great catchy song (though infinitely better in recent live versions). There are good songs there. 'I Pity the Poor Immigrant' is also wasted, as any live version from 75 will prove.
But there is something about the tone of the album. Somehow it just crawls along rather lazily. It's almost a downer. And not in a good way.
And Bob was doing that froggy thang with his voice (though not as much as elsewhere) and that's just godawful.

You know what is it? It doesn't sound like Dylan. Yeah, I think that's it. Even trainwrecks like 'Good As I've Been' sounds like Dylan.

To state the obvious: Bob has taken many risk and gambles in his records, probably all of them. For me, with JWH he just falls short. I having listened to the album again, I cannot fathom what about these lyrics are so great. Give me some lines that are sublime? "Dear landlord please dont dismiss my case"?

Mickvet wrote:

No good tunes? Now, I thought I had a tin ear but I can hear them. I consider JWH as one of Bob's most refreshingly tuneful efforts. Maybe if you listen out for what are known as 'airs' they might come to you. Don't confuse tunes or airs with density of instrumentation or rhythm.


"Airs"? I should probably know what that means. Chalk it up to ignorance. But please teach me. I'm hungry for learnin'. Sure there are some good tunes (man.). (By which I do not mean "something you can dance too" but musical expressions that adhere and comply to the genius of the lyrics such as anything on BoB or HI61. Or anything spat out in 66).

Look, sirs and or madams, I did not mean to start a fist fight here. I didn't realize not liking JWH was a trigger. Maybe when I'm older I'll get it. But I didnt ten years ago, and I don't today.
If there was a fire and I could only grab two records, and had to choose which one of JWH or Nashville Skyline I'd probably leave them both.

To me, subjectively, of course, of course, Bob was truly lost between 1967-1973.


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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 19:13 GMT 

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Not a fan of the Basement Tapes Anr?

I consider Dear Landlord to be an absolute diamond. I also love New Morning though, so you may want to disregard my opinion entirely.


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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 19:57 GMT 
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Take It Easy Fred wrote:
Not a fan of the Basement Tapes Anr?

I consider Dear Landlord to be an absolute diamond. I also love New Morning though, so you may want to disregard my opinion entirely.


Well, obviously I mean the tail end of 67! Or whatever. You know what I mean. And don't you even joke about me having nothing but pure and undying love for the Basement Tapes! It's not funny.


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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 22:55 GMT 
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In answer to your question above, I don't think I could rate any album of Dylan's above JWH. It represents an essential quality of his musical style. To me, this has always been apparent in his live performances, where JWH songs rarely disappoint. Indeed, it is hard to imagine Dylan's harmonica style without that aspect of it which has derived from JWH. Additionally, his various bands' most explosive guitar performances have largely been with JWH tracks. There must be a few tunes in there to inspire all that.


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PostPosted: Sat April 8th, 2017, 23:26 GMT 
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Anr Bjotk wrote:
Hmmm... I never knew JWH had such love. Would y'all place JWH above say, Desire or Slow Train? Or just above Oh Mercy or Saved? Cause there's a big difference. I.e. the best of passable Bob or best of best Bob. If you catch my drift.

I'm not trashing JWH. 'Frankie Lee and Judas Priest' was long one of my all time favourite songs. 'Down along the Cove' is a great catchy song (though infinitely better in recent live versions). There are good songs there. 'I Pity the Poor Immigrant' is also wasted, as any live version from 75 will prove.
But there is something about the tone of the album. Somehow it just crawls along rather lazily. It's almost a downer. And not in a good way.
And Bob was doing that froggy thang with his voice (though not as much as elsewhere) and that's just godawful.

You know what is it? It doesn't sound like Dylan. Yeah, I think that's it. Even trainwrecks like 'Good As I've Been' sounds like Dylan.

To state the obvious: Bob has taken many risk and gambles in his records, probably all of them. For me, with JWH he just falls short. I having listened to the album again, I cannot fathom what about these lyrics are so great. Give me some lines that are sublime? "Dear landlord please dont dismiss my case"?

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I don't agree with everything this guy says, but listen to this youtube. It puts
John Wesley Harding into the context of the times in which Dylan recorded the album.
And he does a good job of analyzing the structure of AATW, I think.
there are some threads on Watchtower
hERe which would be worth your while to look up.

Like the man says, Bob could have won the Nobel Prize for All Along the Watchtower alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In6gCrGeZfA


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 03:18 GMT 
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Queen Anne Lace wrote:

Thanks for sharing that. I admire its efficiency.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 05:22 GMT 
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Yep, 'All Along The Watchtower' says more in its two and a half minutes than all of the interminable Triplicate.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 06:44 GMT 
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I wondered if the cover 'artwork' affected sales at all. It shouldn't do, but lets face it - it's not going to attract any floating voters!


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 08:25 GMT 
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Not really sure how any Dylan fan can compare John Wesley Harding to Triplicate either your really clutching at straws there.

The lowest point of Bobs career was Knocked out loaded and down in the groove thats when he was at his worst for me.

And the real reason Shadows, Fallen Angels, and Triplicate have some of you moaning is because he went and did something different.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 08:58 GMT 
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Desolation Row wrote:
Not really sure how any Dylan fan can compare John Wesley Harding to Triplicate either your really clutching at straws there.

The lowest point of Bobs career was Knocked out loaded and down in the groove thats when he was at his worst for me.

And the real reason Shadows, Fallen Angels, and Triplicate have some of you moaning is because he went and did something different.


No, it's because what he has done is so brain breakingly craptastic. It's so awful and bizarre, I have it on good authority that David Lynch took one listen and ran away screaming.

The only thing that could possibly redeem this textbook example of vanity project whatthefuckery is a phlegm-rattling video of Bob hacking out 'It Ain't What You Do, It's The Way That You Do It', with the band pissing themselves in the background.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 10:32 GMT 
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Desolation Row wrote:

And the real reason Shadows, Fallen Angels, and Triplicate have some of you moaning is because he went and did something different.


Utter gibberish. 'Shadows in The Night' was 'something different' and was a rather splendid if not terribly ambitious tribute to Frank Sinatra in the year of his centenary. 'Fallen Angels' was an ill-conceived and ramshackle collection of leftovers from the 'Shadows' sessions that diluted the potency of the first record by dint of being too much of the same thing, along with being patently inferior. 'Triplicate' multiplies 'too much of the same thing' to the Nth degree, outstaying its welcome before it has even crossed the threshold.

Doing exactly the same thing isn't new to Dylan, obviously, as witnessed by previous 'more of the same thing' offerings such as 'Saved' and 'World Gone Wrong', for instance, but this 3-CD atrocity takes the biscuit. It's Dylan being the laziest he has ever been, and as such it's an insult to both his fans and his own artistic credibility.

It's all too easy to trot out the 'Dylan has earned the right to do anything he pleases' line, but in reality no one ever 'earns the right' to insult the intelligence of their fans by releasing rubbish like 'Triplicate'. It's a breach of trust and it is perfectly valid for 'some of us' to be 'moaning' about it, in exactly the same way we would if we went to our favourite restaurant, where we had enjoyed many a delicious meal in the past, and were served corned beef and dried eggs because the chef had randomly decided to prepare wartime fare in order to pay a sentimental visit to his own youth. In such an instance, we would be entitled not only to send the food back uneaten, but to throw it back at the chef with great force.


Last edited by littlemaggie on Sun April 9th, 2017, 10:50 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 10:49 GMT 

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littlemaggie wrote:
It's Dylan being the laziest he has ever been, and as such it's an insult to both his fans and his own artistic credibility.

It's all too easy to trot out the 'Dylan has earned the right to do anything he pleases' line, but in reality no one ever 'earns the right' to insult the intelligence of their fans by releasing rubbish like 'Triplicate'. It's a breach of trust and it is perfectly valid for 'some of us' to be 'moaning' about it


What an incredibly entitled point of view.

One may agree or disagree on the merits of Triplicate, but your arrogance is completely unnecessary.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 11:05 GMT 
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Foggy wrote:

What an incredibly entitled point of view.

One may agree or disagree on the merits of Triplicate, but your arrogance is completely unnecessary.


But I am entitled. So are you. There is nothing incredible about it, and there is certainly no arrogance involved in being so entitled. As I indicated in my analogy, if a chef whose dishes you had once appreciated starts producing poor quality food, you are entitled to complain. More than that, one could argue that it would be wrong not to.

The arrogance surely lies with the chef for believing himself entitled to serve poor quality food.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 13:06 GMT 
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Mickvet wrote:
In answer to your question above, I don't think I could rate any album of Dylan's above JWH. It represents an essential quality of his musical style. To me, this has always been apparent in his live performances, where JWH songs rarely disappoint. Indeed, it is hard to imagine Dylan's harmonica style without that aspect of it which has derived from JWH. Additionally, his various bands' most explosive guitar performances have largely been with JWH tracks. There must be a few tunes in there to inspire all that.


I would replace the word JWH for Modern Times and agree! I wouldn't rate that many albums, besides BoB above Modern Times.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 14:53 GMT 
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Sorry, littlemaggie, you're free to dislike the album but you're being ridiculous. Your analogy is false - these are not "war rations", they are old and in a style you don't like. Further, your assumption of laziness is just wrong-headed. Each of these 30 songs has a distinct melody which needed to be memorized (though it's possible Dylan has learned to read) and there was clearly a great deal of care taken in their arrangement and recording. It would have been far easier for Dylan to have recorded a bunch of folk, country and blues covers or done songs by contemporaries - which would have likely sold many times what this will sell. I'm sure it's selling enough to make a profit though, so vanity project is another misjudged insult.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 15:01 GMT 

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^^^
littlemaggie wrote:
Foggy wrote:

What an incredibly entitled point of view.

One may agree or disagree on the merits of Triplicate, but your arrogance is completely unnecessary.


But I am entitled. So are you. There is nothing incredible about it, and there is certainly no arrogance involved in being so entitled. As I indicated in my analogy, if a chef whose dishes you had once appreciated starts producing poor quality food, you are entitled to complain. More than that, one could argue that it would be wrong not to.

The arrogance surely lies with the chef for believing himself entitled to serve poor quality food.
i'd argue that the chef and dylan are entitled to do their work as they choose,
you are entitled to withhold your consumption of what they make,
and you're entitled to feel however you choose about it,
but the moaning about such
is just a drag you subject others to enduring,
you're still hungry and the complaining is tiresome to those around you


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 16:01 GMT 
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I wouldn't rank 'Triplicate' with something like Lou Reed's 'Metal Machine Music' - cynical product the music buying public were thought to be capable of purchasing solely because it had Lou's name attached to it. In a totally difference example, I think Pink Floyd's Ummagumma is a similarly ill-conceived album (however non-deliberate its intent was as a piece of resulting musical trash), living off of a name established with an entirely different front-man and reputation.

The sheer audacity of this newest release strikes more of a humorous chord with me than an irritated one, and seems like a more focused, less piecemeal, Self-Portrait for the twenty-first century (but no where near as fun). His creative muse seems to be gone (for now), and he still wishes to create new music, with results that have been surprisingly good (Shadows in the Night). I do agree with littlemaggie that it's been a series of diminishing returns since that 2015 album though, and emptying the vaults because the old maestro thinks it's all worthy, does display, dare I say, an eccentricity from Dylan unseen before now.

The American songbook sessions which make up 'Triplicate' would probably have befitted from a Bootleg Series release, rather than being placed on bona-fide 'New Dylan Album'.

My main concern is that this isn't his final project, and Tempest isn't his final album - I'd prefer to see one last hurrah from him.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 16:19 GMT 
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juststepintothearena wrote:
is just a drag you subject others to enduring,
you're still hungry and the complaining is tiresome to those around you


You actually logged in to type that?

This is the "The 'Why I haven't bought Triplicate' topic!" thread. That's why I am using this thread to explain why I haven't bought 'Triplicate'.

If you find it tiresome don't visit this thread. It's that simple.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 16:43 GMT 
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Why I haven't bought "Triplicate"....?

Simple economics: I'm waiting for the price to plummet. It's been falling steadily since the release date, as is the case with the majority of new CD releases these days. (Apart, perhaps from those by The Fab Four. I'm sure other examples are available.)


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 16:53 GMT 
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Ironically, I've re-fallen in love with 'Spirit on the water'. It's a great song. I mean, it ain't 'LARS' or 'Ballad of a thin' man. Or even 'She's Your Lover Now'.
But that's the past. 'Spirit on the water' is great within the context of the still genuinely exciting blues Dylan.
It's riiight on that sweet spot between Thunder on the Mountain or Mississippi and the Triplicate trite. It's a nice mellow ditty, just on the edge.
'Spirit on the water' was clearly the edge. Or what should've been the edge. Then he went over into 'Under the red sky" territory.

He'l be back. I know it. He's not slowing down. He's not that old. At least that's what I tell myself.

But if he comes out with another crooner. That's when I'll snap.

Oh, "why I haven't bough Triplicate?" Same reason why I haven't bough Neil Diamond's latest. Or Rod Stewarts. I don't sully my ears with that cr*p.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 19:08 GMT 
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pol2jem wrote:
Why I haven't bought "Triplicate"....?

Simple economics: I'm waiting for the price to plummet. It's been falling steadily since the release date, as is the case with the majority of new CD releases these days. (Apart, perhaps from those by The Fab Four. I'm sure other examples are available.)


I got it at the Barnes and Noble bookstore and it was only eighteen dollars.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 19:23 GMT 
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carnap wrote:
pol2jem wrote:
Why I haven't bought "Triplicate"....?

Simple economics: I'm waiting for the price to plummet. It's been falling steadily since the release date, as is the case with the majority of new CD releases these days. (Apart, perhaps from those by The Fab Four. I'm sure other examples are available.)


I got it at the Barnes and Noble bookstore and it was only eighteen dollars.


That's £14.54 where I am.

Over here, it started out at £16.99 on release day.

Currently, I can snag it from A****n for £12.72, but I reckon it'll drop to £10 before long. Under £10 I'll consider it a bargain.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 19:29 GMT 
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You can have my free copy for a fiver. Oh wait, I seem to have deleted it.


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PostPosted: Sun April 9th, 2017, 19:37 GMT 
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Wow , a thread about why you are not buying something because you think it is crap , not that you have heard it , because it is crap , not that you have heard it , because it is crap not that...................................

You people , you must never read half the threads , i think you just post , like e-bay fever , you just keep bidding , even when you could have bought it cheaper new, If you didn't buy it , i don't give a flying fig why , this ain't no topic .


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