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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 18:49 GMT 
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Jman does jokes, I'm sure he meant no ill will.

Refusing to download or pirate take levels of protest to new heights!
Brings 'water under the bridge' a whole new color.
Watch out, Dylan might get mad and take one out of the U2 playbook and release his next ten volume set directly into your brain!


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 18:55 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
I know it's possible but I can't help but wonder why Dylan fans can't appreciate this stuff.


How about: I just don't enjoy listening to it? Nothing wrong with that, is there?


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:08 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
goodnitesteve wrote:
I know it's possible but I can't help but wonder why Dylan fans can't appreciate this stuff.


How about: I just don't enjoy listening to it? Nothing wrong with that, is there?


Not at all. I just don't understand how this is left field of something like Moonlight or Spirit on the Water. They're just harmless old love songs, songs where Bob has plucked from since the beginning of his career.

It's not piercing music, there's not a lot of, if any, foul language used. At the very least you can have it on in the background while hosting a black tie dinner.


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:14 GMT 
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I don't understand the need to one up each other in regards to who appreciates Dylan on a "deeper level" in a fan forum on the internet.
It should be good enough that some people enjoy the music and some people don't.

I'm all for diverse opinions, but coming to a fan forum with the express purpose of pointing out what you DON'T like or why you WON'T buy that artists work is inherently problematic and unnecessarily confrontational.


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:20 GMT 
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It took a Decepticon to say it.
Now transform and roll out people!


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:42 GMT 

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I would listen to the whole thing if it was on Spotify. Spotify has only a sampler. Therefore I cannot listen to the whole thing.


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:49 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
goodnitesteve wrote:
I know it's possible but I can't help but wonder why Dylan fans can't appreciate this stuff.


How about: I just don't enjoy listening to it? Nothing wrong with that, is there?



Some people think that if you are a Dylan fan, then you must like everything he's done. If you don't like the latest stuff, then you're somehow full of crap.
Here's the bottom line - Either you enjoy something or you don't. Same is true for food, clothes, movies, etc.. If you have to go out of your way to like something, then you don't like it. You might like it one day, but not now. Liking something is not your responsibility.


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 19:56 GMT 
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A Merry Llama wrote:
It took a Decepticon to say it.
Now transform and roll out people!


It should actually be: "Decepticons, attack!" or "...Assemble

So maybe that undercuts my post a little. :oops: :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 20:02 GMT 
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mojofilter wrote:
smoke wrote:
Many people say Dylan doesn't have the voice for this type of material, which is fair enough, but there are still many people who say he doesn't have the voice for folk music or rock and roll.


Nice logic there. Some people say Bob can't sing standards, other people say he can't sing folk; we know he can sing folk, therefore he can sing standards. Aristotle would be proud. Good use of the straw man too: "some people" (I won't say who, but you know what kind of people I'm talking about).


That is not a good logical argument, you are correct. I'm not sure it was trying to be but had I considered it I might have chosen another way to say it. "It" being twofold:

I have every right to enjoy this, and shouldn't have to apologize for liking Dylan's singing, in general or especially to fellow Dylan fans.
and
These melodically more demanding songs are, in the end, just as forgiving of rough-hewn singing as folk or blues.



HunterRose wrote:
I don't understand the need to one up each other in regards to who appreciates Dylan on a "deeper level" in a fan forum on the internet.
It should be good enough that some people enjoy the music and some people don't.


But...I like REALLY GET HIM, MAN! :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 20:20 GMT 

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If you're posting on a Bob Dylan forum, nobody can question your fandom. That's just the law of the land.


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PostPosted: Wed April 5th, 2017, 20:29 GMT 
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Buy it, it's a beautiful rich Dylan album.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 00:52 GMT 
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I have very little interest in hearing it is why I haven't bought it. I'll probably wind up listening to it, but as long as this is the road Bob is going down musically he ain't getting no more of my money.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 01:05 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
How about: I just don't enjoy listening to it? Nothing wrong with that, is there?


Not at all. I just don't understand how this is left field of something like Moonlight or Spirit on the Water. They're just harmless old love songs, songs where Bob has plucked from since the beginning of his career.

It's not piercing music, there's not a lot of, if any, foul language used. At the very least you can have it on in the background while hosting a black tie dinner.


First off, this Dylan fan doesn't like listening to it because he doesn't think it sounds very good and finds the performances rather listless.

Secondly, if L&T or Modern Times were 100% Moonlights and Spirit on the Waters, I think those albums would have interested me a lot less as well.

Third, having off-key ModBob warbling and gurgling for 90 minutes in the background while hosting a black tie dinner is definitely not a good idea. Unless you're trying to distract and agitate your guests.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 01:13 GMT 
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I would certainly be agitated at that dinner
'stop all your talking at plate scratching, I'm trying to hear Bob!'


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 01:15 GMT 
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Winter Lude wrote:


Some people think that if you are a Dylan fan, then you must like everything he's done. If you don't like the latest stuff, then you're somehow full of crap.
Here's the bottom line - Either you enjoy something or you don't. Same is true for food, clothes, movies, etc.. If you have to go out of your way to like something, then you don't like it. You might like it one day, but not now. Liking something is not your responsibility.


Bingo was his name-o. It seems to me, overall, that the people who like this stuff are much more bothered by the people who don't then vice versa. The people I've read here so far who don't like it seem mostly disappointed in the music, not the people who like it. I'm not sure I can say the same for some of you on the other side of the fence. Also, it's like someone a few posts up said, if you're posting on a Bob Dylan discussion forum, you're very likely to be a Bob Dylan fan, so I'm not sure where all this "so called fans" stuff is coming from. Chances are you're not going to like everything your favourite artist puts out, and you should be allowed talk about that with other fans, on that artists main discussion board.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 02:49 GMT 
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yopietro wrote:
goodnitesteve wrote:
[quote="Johanna Parker"]
How about: I just don't enjoy listening to it? Nothing wrong with that, is there?


Not at all. I just don't understand how this is left field of something like Moonlight or Spirit on the Water. They're just harmless old love songs, songs where Bob has plucked from since the beginning of his career.

It's not piercing music, there's not a lot of, if any, foul language used. At the very least you can have it on in the background while hosting a black tie dinner.


First off, this Dylan fan doesn't like listening to it because he doesn't think it sounds very good and finds the performances rather listless.

Secondly, if L&T or Modern Times were 100% Moonlights and Spirit on the Waters, I think those albums would have interested me a lot less as well.

Third, having off-key ModBob warbling and gurgling for 90 minutes in the background while hosting a black tie dinner is definitely not a good idea. Unless you're trying to distract and agitate your guests.[/quote]

Mighty defensive. Excuse me while i descend into heaven where Beyond the Horizon is played on repeat.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 03:03 GMT 

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goodnitesteve wrote:

Not at all. I just don't understand how this is left field of something like Moonlight or Spirit on the Water. They're just harmless old love songs, songs where Bob has plucked from since the beginning of his career.

It's not piercing music, there's not a lot of, if any, foul language used. At the very least you can have it on in the background while hosting a black tie dinner.


The lyrics is Spirit are much more interesting than these standards. The music is Dylan. It's his composition. The standards sound like a run on song. His delivery has no punch as does his own works. He trying to sound smoothe and it doesn't work. He's raw and has a lot of umpf when he sings his own stuff. That's lacking in most of the standards. The melodies are boring as well. The big band sound the original had is missing in most of Dylan's covers.
Of course this is just my opinion. However, that may be why ppl like Spirit more than the standards and don't find them similar.

Btw, I love Spirit on the Water


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 03:10 GMT 

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115th wrote:
jman wrote:
I can neither except nor accept.


Sorry, but English is not my mother language, I am from Austria, so I mixed accept with except.



Post to him in German. It is obvious that English is not your first language. However, your English is just fine to portray the correct meaning. You are easy to understand.

Maybe he meant no ill will but it's not cool pointing out or goofing on someone's English when it's not their own language. Not funny. Makes the language learner have a high affective filter.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 04:52 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
Many people say Dylan doesn't have the voice for this type of material, which is fair enough, but there are still many people who say he doesn't have the voice for folk music or rock and roll.

For sure there are lots of people who can't stand Bob Dylan whatever he sings, however there are many more that aren't his greatest of fans who do appreciate that he has written a host of good songs that have been covered by other artists. For me the fact that this is his third album of non-original material speaks volumes. It's a shame when the winner Nobel for literature decides to release another set of covers just before he accepts the prize.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 06:53 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
Excuse me while i descend into heaven where Beyond the Horizon is played on repeat.


The looping psych-ops soundtrack employed in sleep deprivation torture interrogations at Guantanamo.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 07:01 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
I know it's possible but I can't help but wonder why Dylan fans can't appreciate this stuff. I guess what it all boils down to is that Bob was cool. He was what all the cool kids listened to and Pat Boone was for squares.

Now that Bob is doing his best Pat Boone the close mindedness has been uncovered hanging over these so called fans.

Can't you see the influence these songs have had on Bob's music, maybe not do much melodically, but lyrically?

It's ok to like jazz standards. They have merit. Everything has merit. Bob isn't cashing in on your insecurities, he's singing the songs he loves. Sure they hold a bit of nostalgia but that's better than him standing up on a stage singing Blowin' in the Wind like the record. That would be leading you on and screwing with you.

If memories were all he sang, I bet Bob would rather drive a truck.


Great point, though I disagree with your conclusion :P
I know it's sophomoric to say that Triplicate et al is not cool. But put it in other words and it rings true. Bob made some of the greatest music ever made, now he's "making" music that is supposed to be background music in bars.
I would have respected it more if it was proper jazz. At least jazz has a great history. Who, in their right mind, has ever though Sinatra was innovative or groundbreaking? Sinatra was a glorified jingle merchant. It supposed to make you "chill out". Bob has always been about great music and some of the greatest lyrics in music history.

Seeing the show in Oslo some small part of me, deep deep inside, almost understood the Sinatra stuff. It reminded me of early Tom Waits. The Americana notion of the lounge singers, who is doomed to forever play cheesy nightclubs to a drunk audience.
It fits with Dylans life style. "Forced" so stand before an audience every night and play hits. Dance monkey b(w)oy, dance. Do the song about the demon woman, the one about "I'll never love again", the one about drowing your sorrows.
But Tom Waits "crooning" always had a air of irony to it. Like "I'm not really a lounge act."
Bob has never laid such an ironic framework. Perhaps subtly.
Bob, playing Frank, has no irony. He's just trying (yuck) to sing a classic american song, well.

Like all the reviewers have pointed out: At least the Sinatra stuff has made Bob a better singer.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 07:07 GMT 

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I like to see it as Anti-Sinatra stuff. It sounds nothing like Sinatra, thank God.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 07:10 GMT 

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Anr Bjotk wrote:
Dance monkey b(w)oy, dance. Do the song about the demon woman, the one about "I'll never love again", the one about drowing your sorrows.


But this exactly what Dylan isn't doing. Whether one likes or doesn't like his current show, he is not leaning on his standards, he has resisted becoming a brand, precisely by taking on this new challenge.


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 07:47 GMT 
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Foggy wrote:
Anr Bjotk wrote:
Dance monkey b(w)oy, dance. Do the song about the demon woman, the one about "I'll never love again", the one about drowing your sorrows.


But this exactly what Dylan isn't doing. Whether one likes or doesn't like his current show, he is not leaning on his standards, he has resisted becoming a brand, precisely by taking on this new challenge.


Isn't that the Judas defense? Just like any online argument will eventually spiral into someone calling someone a nazi, any Dylan discussion will eventually spiral into someone comparing the situation to Dylan going electric... No, Triplicate is not a exciting new direction and no, we, the detractors, are not philistines.

The fact that Dylan is doing Frank is in no way progress or resistance to branding. He didnt think "what can I do to throw people off? What would be unexpected?"
Granted, doing something like Frank means he is not doing the same old songs. But when was Bob doing Bob ever a concern?
Yes, the Sinatra stuff is "new", and as such you could possibly say that he is somehow resisting becoming a glorified organ grinder's moneky, but what a Faustian deal!!! He might as well start playing the pan flute.
If the "new direction" had been something thoroughly non-commercial you might have a point. But what could be more commercial than Frank Sinatra?


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PostPosted: Thu April 6th, 2017, 08:02 GMT 

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Anr Bjotk wrote:

The fact that Dylan is doing Frank is in no way progress or resistance to branding.

If the "new direction" had been something thoroughly non-commercial you might have a point. But what could be more commercial than Frank Sinatra?


But he isn't doing Frank. He is undoing Frank. Okay, maybe not quite (that sounded too good to resist)--but the point remains: I, for one, don't see this as "commercial" in the least. It is something much deeper.


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