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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 00:13 GMT 
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... and one more :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 00:33 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
http://www.skepticalartist.com/2013/07/18/hide-your-sources-painting-from-photographs/

Painters have been using photos as source materials ever since the invention of photography. Picasso, Gauguin, Van Gogh, Cezanne – many of their celebrated masterpieces are based on photos (always uncredited). Gerhard Richter, the most expensive living artist always bases his (figurative) work on photos (always uncredited). But when Bob Dylan does it, it suddenly is big news and he is accused of "stealing and deceiving"? Gimme a break!


Yep!


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 02:31 GMT 
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Or else that pier in Blackpool is an exact copy of one in Norfolk, Virginia.


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 03:18 GMT 
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As with several other images he's shown, the issue is using the same cropping as someone else's photo.
http://greg.org/archive/2012/12/05/if_he_did_it.html
Remember that the Asia Series was presented as a tour documentary :lol:

Image


Last edited by AndoDoug on Fri January 20th, 2017, 03:44 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 03:40 GMT 
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inthealley wrote:

Meanwhile, in the alternative ER Universe, reactions range from 'Bob can do no wrong' through to 'string that hungry kid up by the neck'.

HO HUM ......
Haha yes ER is the peanut gallery of semi-formed gut reactions
Warmuth always worth reading!


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 04:50 GMT 
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If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 10:50 GMT 

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Bob Dylan has had a fluid understanding of truth and property since at least '62. He was a vanguard, and far ahead of his time! Nowaddays one can base an administration on this kind of attitude... :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 13:46 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?


I don't know. Ask Gaugin, Cezanne, Van Gogh, Lautrec and Degas.

http://www.fogonazos.es/2006/11/famous- ... hs_06.html

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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2017, 23:48 GMT 
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The "The Norfolk, Virginia Pier" painting which actually shows the "Blackpool, England (North) Pier" might be a veiled tribute to Gene Vincent who was born in Norfolk, Virginia and who stayed at a house in the North Shore area of Blackpool (near the North Pier) when playing the city in 1965.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 00:04 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?


It's art. If an artist paints a portrait are they stealing the image of the person they're painting? If Vermeer used a camera obscura is he no longer a great artist?

Anyone here who doesn't think it takes effort and skill to reproduce an image, be it from a photo or model, look up a pic or grab a friend and paint or draw whatever and let's see how you do.

This isn't a discussion about theft or fraud. It's a discussion between people who understand the creation of art and people who don't.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 00:35 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?


It's art. If an artist paints a portrait are they stealing the image of the person they're painting? If Vermeer used a camera obscura is he no longer a great artist?

Anyone here who doesn't think it takes effort and skill to reproduce an image, be it from a photo or model, look up a pic or grab a friend and paint or draw whatever and let's see how you do.

This isn't a discussion about theft or fraud. It's a discussion between people who understand the creation of art and people who don't.


Exactly.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 04:31 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?

Quote:
I don't know. Ask Gaugin, Cezanne, Van Gogh, Lautrec and Degas.
http://www.fogonazos.es/2006/11/famous- ... hs_06.html

Image
By 'student' painting i meant a painting by a hobbyist with no particular gift


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 04:38 GMT 
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It's not a very good photograph anyway. I think Bob could have improved it more. It just seems bereft of life. The sort of pier you want to jump off. where were the hardy fishermen? the leisurely people eating shrimp? the happy children on rollerskates?

I would like to see Bob paint a version of The Scream. That had a pier in it as I recall. or was it a bridge? A platform of some sort anyway. Dedicate it to all those musical acts who have ripped him off over the years.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 04:48 GMT 

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Image

He has many contacts among the lumberjacks to get you facts when someone attacks his imagination.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 05:07 GMT 

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Sweetheart68 wrote:
AndoDoug wrote:
This isn't a discussion about theft or fraud. It's a discussion between people who understand the creation of art and people who don't.


That's EXACTLY right. It's easy to tell the people who have never created anything.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 06:47 GMT 

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Mister.Jones wrote:
It's not a very good photograph anyway. I think Bob could have improved it more. It just seems bereft of life. The sort of pier you want to jump off. where were the hardy fishermen? the leisurely people eating shrimp? the happy children on rollerskates?

I would like to see Bob paint a version of The Scream. That had a pier in it as I recall. or was it a bridge? A platform of some sort anyway. Dedicate it to all those musical acts who have ripped him off over the years.


The trouble with his paintings from photographs is that they do appear quite lifeless. That quality or lack of was especially present in his New Orleans Series. I do admire his Drawn Blank Series, which have a much more original quality. There is nothing at all wrong with painting from photographs though. It would not be a discussion at all if he would not insist in presenting his pictures of views of places and scenes he has actually seen as painted.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 08:54 GMT 
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Sweetheart68 wrote:
This isn't a discussion about theft or fraud. It's a discussion between people who understand the creation of art and people who don't.

rimbaud wrote:
That's EXACTLY right. It's easy to tell the people who have never created anything.

Nobody feels any pain.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 09:06 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
If this is art then what is a student painting based on a photograph?

Sweetheart68 wrote:
Anyone here who doesn't think it takes effort and skill to reproduce an image, be it from a photo or model, look up a pic or grab a friend and paint or draw whatever and let's see how you do.
It is extremely difficult. I'm saying Bob's work has all the mediocre qualities of a student hobbyist (albeit on a more competent level than Ron Wood could ever muster), and as such his work would not be getting shown without his name attached.
Compare the transformation here to what bob does with photos.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 09:09 GMT 

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Mutabor wrote:
Mister.Jones wrote:
It's not a very good photograph anyway. I think Bob could have improved it more. It just seems bereft of life. The sort of pier you want to jump off. where were the hardy fishermen? the leisurely people eating shrimp? the happy children on rollerskates?

I would like to see Bob paint a version of The Scream. That had a pier in it as I recall. or was it a bridge? A platform of some sort anyway. Dedicate it to all those musical acts who have ripped him off over the years.


The trouble with his paintings from photographs is that they do appear quite lifeless. That quality or lack of was especially present in his New Orleans Series. I do admire his Drawn Blank Series, which have a much more original quality. There is nothing at all wrong with painting from photographs though. It would not be a discussion at all if he would not insist in presenting his pictures of views of places and scenes he has actually seen as painted.


Appear "quite lifeless" to whom? Certainly not to me.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 12:30 GMT 
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AndoDoug wrote:
As with several other images he's shown, the issue is using the same cropping as someone else's photo.


This.


Has the Blackpool pier appeared in any films? Is there a site to look up film locations? I don't doubt him using that photo, but maybe it ties in with something else.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 13:55 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Has the Blackpool pier appeared in any films? Is there a site to look up film locations? I don't doubt him using that photo, but maybe it ties in with something else.
The pier is in a number of films. Hilda Fernhout, who found the Blackpool source photo, pointed out that it appears in Nowhere Boy, a biopic about John Lennon's teenage years. Hilda also pointed out Blackpool was where Dylan played "Roll On John" live for the first time.

https://soundcloud.com/cohenadmirer/bob ... -blackpool


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 14:05 GMT 
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Image

Do we know where he got the couple from? Or is that, like, authentic creativity? ( :roll: )


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 14:08 GMT 
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Art is anything you can get away with, obviously.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 14:09 GMT 
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To be fair, the couple do look similiar to Lennon and his mother(?) in the scene from Nowhere Boy. Same suit and red combination.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2017, 14:37 GMT 
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gibsona07 wrote:
To be fair, the couple do look similiar to Lennon and his mother(?) in the scene from Nowhere Boy. Same suit and red combination.


I thought he might have transfigured them, but that's just the colours really.


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