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 Post subject: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 01:49 GMT 

Joined: Thu April 28th, 2016, 13:40 GMT
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Essentially, what needs to be done is to love the songs and not the so-called "man". I think this is what needs to happen if we're going to get behind the people who want to play Dylan's music. If we could just get past somehow needing his performance to justify the songs and instead listen to others "without prejudice" (George Michael), we're going to hear people loving the music and trying their best as musicians. Surely every Dylan fan would agree the more the songbook is promoted, the better. Once we're past the cynical idea of sacrilege or "destroying" the original, we can all share in the joy of Dylan's American songbook. There's just no doubt that a good hundred or so of his original songs are timeless and meant to be passed down from generation to generation for many generations to come.
Listen to a cover like you were hearing your buddy's band give it a go.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 02:00 GMT 
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Hero4life wrote:
If we could just get past somehow needing his performance to justify the songs and instead listen to others "without prejudice" (George Michael), we're going to hear people loving the music and trying their best as musicians. generation to generation for many generations to come.


well yes to, or for, some people and no for others. he's the only he. :)


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 04:07 GMT 
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I don't care who covers his songs. The originals aren't going to be matched or surpassed all that often...almost never, but if it gets more people to check out Dylan's music that's cool.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 11:06 GMT 
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Are trolls real people? What it is indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 11:41 GMT 
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As long as the originals are available, I will choose them every time. Covers are nice for those who can't accept the voice, but there will never be any question as to which is better. I don't think I have found any exceptions, though there are some covers that I really enjoy a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 11:46 GMT 
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raging_glory wrote:
As long as the originals are available, I will choose them every time. Covers are nice for those who can't accept the voice, but there will never be any question as to which is better. I don't think I have found any exceptions, though there are some covers that I really enjoy a lot.

With ya, Rager...
I finally realized many years ago it's not worth purchasing cover collections to try and satisfy the "wants" of more Dylan.
Dylan doing Dylan, hands down.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 12:03 GMT 
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I guarantee you the covers of the most obscure Dylan songs almost always have more merit than the throwaway studio performances our guy put out there. Good examples abound of songs from the Witmark demos done with more conviction by his peers. He couldn't keep up as a performer with his own fecundity.
Odetta's versions of Long ago far away, Long time gone and Walkin' down the line for example

Three interpreters almost always got more out of the song than Dylan.
Nina Simone, Sandy Denny and Richie Havens


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 12:25 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 25th, 2007, 21:54 GMT
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I don't see how you love the songs if all you love is specific recordings.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 13:36 GMT 
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rolling_thunder wrote:
I don't care who covers his songs. The originals aren't going to be matched or surpassed all that often...almost never, but if it gets more people to check out Dylan's music that's cool.

Dylan's live performances of his own songs are usually more enjoyable to me. With only a few exceptions, I prefer the "live" versions and rarely listen to a studio album anymore.

That said, covers of Dylan's songs by other artists are generally revolting to me . A few have been "okay" and on a couple of occasions I've heard covers that could well be considered crimes against humanity.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 14:35 GMT 
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leavinclaud wrote:
Odetta's versions of Long ago far away, Long time gone and Walkin' down the line for example


Right but her The times they are a-changin' is even better, think I.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 18:12 GMT 
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Untrodden Path wrote:
rolling_thunder wrote:
I don't care who covers his songs. The originals aren't going to be matched or surpassed all that often...almost never, but if it gets more people to check out Dylan's music that's cool.

Dylan's live performances of his own songs are usually more enjoyable to me. With only a few exceptions, I prefer the "live" versions and rarely listen to a studio album anymore.

That said, covers of Dylan's songs by other artists are generally revolting to me . A few have been "okay" and on a couple of occasions I've heard covers that could well be considered crimes against humanity.


I'm not a fan of the majority of covers of Dylan songs either. Only a few of them come to mind that I enjoy.

I prefer the studio version of his songs to a Live version probably 60% of the time, but there's definitely a long list of great Live performances, and depending on what album you're talking about he's probably performed it better Live.

Like The Gospel trilogy for instance (especially Shot of Love) he made those WAY better in a Live setting. Songs like Watered Down Love, In The Summertime and Heart of Mine that are decent on the album are absolutely stunningly brilliant Live.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 18:49 GMT 
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rolling_thunder wrote:
Like The Gospel trilogy for instance (especially Shot of Love) he made those WAY better in a Live setting. Songs like Watered Down Love, In The Summertime and Heart of Mine that are decent on the album are absolutely stunningly brilliant Live.


Just curious, that's live in '81 you refer to, I assume?


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 22:28 GMT 
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effort wrote:
rolling_thunder wrote:
Like The Gospel trilogy for instance (especially Shot of Love) he made those WAY better in a Live setting. Songs like Watered Down Love, In The Summertime and Heart of Mine that are decent on the album are absolutely stunningly brilliant Live.


Just curious, that's live in '81 you refer to, I assume?


Yes indeed. The Avignon, France show specifically. I believe it was July 21st, 1981...I might have the exact date wrong, but it's probably the most famous Live Bootleg of his from that particular year, and one of my personal favorites.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 22:43 GMT 
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I think the point the original poster is making is that we shouldn't judge Dylan's Sinatra covers purely on our preconceived judgements of who Bob Dylan and Frank Sinatra are, but rather on the objective strength of the songs themselves and the performances, as if it were any other anonymous bar band. I wholeheartedly agree, but in reality nothing exists in a vacuum and it is impossible to disconnect the individuals and their histories and personas from their work. Nevertheless, it does no harm to aim towards the OPs theory as much as we can.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Tue May 31st, 2016, 23:47 GMT 

Joined: Thu April 28th, 2016, 13:40 GMT
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Hey guys, thanks for the feedback on this contentious topic. I'd like to add to some salient points that were made; that I think that;

the more people are listening to and playing Dylan, the better for the universe,
that a cover doesn't have to match or surpass the original to make it interest-worthy,
and lyrics-wise, a cover is inevitably a way to consider and reconsider the words, because that is one thing that is not variable (although someone could do this, I guess).
P.S. Sexy socialist babe Ani DeFranco does an intriguing cover of "Hurricane" that I find hard not to like.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Wed June 1st, 2016, 00:15 GMT 

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I usually much prefer Dylan's versions but I think there's a case to be made for Jim James and Calexico's version of Goin' to Acapulco and John Doe's version of Pressing On (both from the I'm Not There soundtrack) as being superior to the originals. I also agree that Odetta's versions of some of the Witmark songs are better (but not Long Time Gone, I love the demo version of that).


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Wed June 1st, 2016, 00:21 GMT 
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It seems a bit odd to compare demo versions with covers recorded for release. Is it me?


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Wed June 1st, 2016, 00:47 GMT 

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I love The Rolling Stones' "Like a Rolling Stone" and I like the idea of it--The Rolling Stones singing "Rolling Stone".


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Wed June 1st, 2016, 08:33 GMT 
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rolling_thunder wrote:
Yes indeed. The Avignon, France show specifically. I believe it was July 21st, 1981...I might have the exact date wrong, but it's probably the most famous Live Bootleg of his from that particular year, and one of my personal favorites.


And lo & behold, Stockholm in that July was my first Bob show attendance...but of boots I think I've ever only listened to the fall US leg.

But Let's begin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSYnQ6d0X7Q


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Thu June 2nd, 2016, 00:11 GMT 

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Hi effort,
That was the first time I heard, "Let's Begin" and I think it's a good relationship song, but I think Bob was a little overexcited by the intricacies of love relationships during these years. Perhaps it's because of the Christianity. I remember one critic talking in a doc about "I Believe in You" and saying "I don't do that." In other words, his relationship or marriage didn't necessitate "I Believe in You"-style proclamations.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Thu June 2nd, 2016, 00:13 GMT 

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Cover: Gabriel Mayers, "One More Cup of Coffee": https://youtu.be/zY3o7MlU0K0


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Thu June 2nd, 2016, 23:06 GMT 

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Cover: Haley Heyndericx, "It Ain’t Me Babe": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIJglHIc0U


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Fri June 3rd, 2016, 04:44 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
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Belle Laugh wrote:
Hero4life wrote:
If we could just get past somehow needing his performance to justify the songs and instead listen to others "without prejudice" (George Michael), we're going to hear people loving the music and trying their best as musicians. generation to generation for many generations to come.


well yes to, or for, some people and no for others. he's the only he. :)


he is essentially a performance artist…unless Paul Williams and an awful lot of other legit pundits…betsy bowden…and the rest have it all wrong….

it is the entirety….it is the performance on record or live.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Fri June 3rd, 2016, 12:25 GMT 

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Dylan's a proud songwriter and thrilled when he's covered. He also enjoys drawing attention to other songwriters. Happily he's nowhere near as narrow as some of his listeners. I believe he has a unique sense of time and that plenty of covers fail. But the notion that nobody else can put a compelling interpretation on his songs is absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: What it is.
PostPosted: Fri June 3rd, 2016, 12:44 GMT 
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monklover wrote:
Dylan's a proud songwriter and thrilled when he's covered. He also enjoys drawing attention to other songwriters. Happily he's nowhere near as narrow as some of his listeners. I believe he has a unique sense of time and that plenty of covers fail. But the notion that nobody else can put a compelling interpretation on his songs is absurd.

It is so, but it happens remarkably rarely that an interpretative reading touches me more than the original.


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