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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 15:17 GMT 
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Thwap summerteeth :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 17:48 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
What about Tell Me Momma? That always seemed badly messed up in transcription.


I can't pull it out right now & check, but I'm pretty sure I remember while browsing through quickly there being Two Complete Transcriptions of "Tell Me Momma" side by side...

So that probably means the corrected Lyrics compared to the previously copyrighted Lyrics.

But I did not examine the "Tell Me Momma" Lyrics if being honest. :?


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 17:52 GMT 
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^
Thanks.
Because this is just so wrong....

bobdylan.com wrote:
Ol’ black Bascom, don’t break no mirrors
Cold black water dog, make no tears


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 19:23 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
^
Thanks.
Because this is just so wrong....

bobdylan.com wrote:
Ol’ black Bascom, don’t break no mirrors
Cold black water dog, make no tears


Interesting...

I just broke it back out to check this specifically for you... Yes, there are Two Complete Lyric Transcriptions for "Tell Me Momma" with several differences/variances. The Main Transcription(Left Page, Black Type) being from the BS 4 "Royal Albert Hall" Performance, The Secondary Transcription(Right Page, Light Grey Type) being the Copyrighted Lyrics(I suppose).

And even with these two complete transcriptions, and the lyric variances, both versions start basically the same:

BS 4 "Royal Albert"-

"Ol’ black Bascom break no mirrors
Cold black water dog make no tears"


Copyright-

"Ol’ black Bascom don’t break no mirrors
Cold black water dog,make no tears"


Hmmm... And to make an all new Transcript for the Bootleg Series Live Version, it's basically certain that Ricks sat down while listening to the performance and transcribed anew, as well as refering to actual manuscripts as they coyly advertised they had access to.

If it hadn't given a whole variant transcription, I'd say this was an overlooked error... But seeing as it did get specific new attention... Maybe those are what the lyrics really are???

I always thought it was something about "ol Black Glass"(whatever sense that makes), but after just now listening to a Live Version on Youtube, I can kinda hear it as being what it's transcribed to be. Hmmmm...

Sorry to dissapoint Johanna. :(

What do you hear the Lyrics as?


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 19:29 GMT 
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Cold black glass don't make no mirror
Cold black water don't make no tears


Thanks though.


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 19:38 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Does it have the version of To Be Alone With You about ice cream and to be or not to be?


And another No, Sorry. :(


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 19:44 GMT 
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Illy Dylan wrote:

Interesting...

I just broke it back out to check this specifically for you... Yes, there are Two Complete Lyric Transcriptions for "Tell Me Momma" with several differences/variances. The Main Transcription(Left Page, Black Type) being from the BS 4 "Royal Albert Hall" Performance, The Secondary Transcription(Right Page, Light Grey Type) being the Copyrighted Lyrics(I suppose).

And even with these two complete transcriptions, and the lyric variances, both versions start basically the same:

BS 4 "Royal Albert"-

"Ol’ black Bascom break no mirrors
Cold black water dog make no tears"


Copyright-

"Ol’ black Bascom don’t break no mirrors
Cold black water dog,make no tears"


Hmmm... And to make an all new Transcript for the Bootleg Series Live Version, it's basically certain that Ricks sat down while listening to the performance and transcribed anew, as well as refering to actual manuscripts as they coyly advertised they had access to.

If it hadn't given a whole variant transcription, I'd say this was an overlooked error... But seeing as it did get specific new attention... Maybe those are what the lyrics really are???

I always thought it was something about "ol Black Glass"(whatever sense that makes), but after just now listening to a Live Version on Youtube, I can kinda hear it as being what it's transcribed to be. Hmmmm...

Sorry to dissapoint Johanna. :(

What do you hear the Lyrics as?


That's one of those songs where the vibe dictates the words. You don't really need to know them to really know them.


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PostPosted: Sat November 1st, 2014, 19:46 GMT 
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Illy Dylan wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
Does it have the version of To Be Alone With You about ice cream and to be or not to be?


And another No, Sorry. :(


They could've done better...


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PostPosted: Sun November 2nd, 2014, 14:55 GMT 

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Oh, I didn't know that, they just punched my cigarette:

Bob Dylan, who listened to the Anthology of American Folk Music, echoed a line from "I Wish I Was a Mole In the Ground." Lunsford sang, "'Cause a railroad man they'll kill you when he can / And drink up your blood like wine," which is echoed by Dylan's line "Mona tried to tell me / To stay away from the train line / She said that all the railroad men / Just drink up your blood like wine" on his song "Stuck Inside of Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again", recorded in 1966 for the album Blonde on Blonde.[5]

He also wrote Mountain Dew.


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PostPosted: Sun November 2nd, 2014, 14:59 GMT 
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Marconakken wrote:
Oh, I didn't know that, they just punched my cigarette:

Bob Dylan, who listened to the Anthology of American Folk Music, echoed a line from "I Wish I Was a Mole In the Ground." Lunsford sang, "'Cause a railroad man they'll kill you when he can / And drink up your blood like wine," which is echoed by Dylan's line "Mona tried to tell me / To stay away from the train line / She said that all the railroad men / Just drink up your blood like wine" on his song "Stuck Inside of Mobile With the Memphis Blues Again", recorded in 1966 for the album Blonde on Blonde.[5]

He also wrote Mountain Dew.


He been stealin', steeaalin'... :P

Good to see that annotated, even if Ovid and Whittier and Timrod aren't.



Re. alt. lyrics, any more luck with Tough Mama?


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PostPosted: Sun November 2nd, 2014, 15:53 GMT 
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Cold black glass don't make no mirror
Cold black water don't make no tears

is what I hear as well. While those words are not exactly transparent, they are pretty evocative and effortlessly incisive about identity and emotion. And a world away from the nonsense that's been transcribed in their place. The words count here, and the right words make the song better.

http://bobdylanencyclopedia.blogspot.co ... ey-66.html
relays an e-mail from Roy Kelly about the Sydney performance. When I read that, then listened to Live '66 I realised that the opening lines to this song were much more playful, pleasing and purposeful than the official lyrics.


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PostPosted: Tue November 4th, 2014, 21:02 GMT 
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Mine shipped from ISIS today, should be here by the end of the week. :)


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PostPosted: Tue November 4th, 2014, 21:04 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Mine shipped from ISIS today, should be here by the end of the week. :)


I look forward to your impressions Johanna...

Ultimately, I think you'll be very happy with it.


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PostPosted: Thu November 6th, 2014, 10:43 GMT 

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I just received mine from ebay,for 200 dollars


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PostPosted: Thu November 6th, 2014, 11:07 GMT 
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Illy Dylan wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:
Mine shipped from ISIS today, should be here by the end of the week. :)


I look forward to your impressions Johanna...

Ultimately, I think you'll be very happy with it.


Wrestled it from the box but not looked inside yet. Just eyeing it and quietly grinning for now. :) :)


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PostPosted: Thu November 6th, 2014, 11:17 GMT 
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Saving mine for sometime this winter.
Still in box.


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PostPosted: Thu November 6th, 2014, 17:23 GMT 

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Is this 1966 song in it?

Definitely Van Gogh

When I'd ask why the painting was deadly
Nobody could pick up my sign
Except for the cook, she was always friendly
But she'd only ask, "What's on your mind?"

She'd say that especially when it was raining
I'd say "Oh, I don't know"
But then she'd press and I'd say, "You see that painting?
Do you think it's been done by Van Gogh?"

The cook she said call her Maria
She'd always point for the same boy to come forth
Saying, "He trades cattle, it's his own idea
And he also makes trips to the North

Have you ever seen his naked calf bleed?"
I'd say, "Oh no, why does it show?"
Then she'd whisper in my ear that he's a half-breed
And I'd say, "Fine, but can he paint like Van Gogh?"

I can't remember his name he never gave it
But I always figured he could go home
Til when he'd gave me his card and said, "Save it"
I could see by his eyes he was alone

But it was sad how his four leaf clover
Drawn on his calling card showed
That it was given back to him a-many times over
And it most definitely was not done by Van Gogh

It was either she or the maid just to please me
Though I sensed she could not understand
And she made a thing out of it by saying, "Go easy
He's a straight, but he's a very crooked straight man"

And I'd say, "Does the girl in the calendar doubt it?
And by the way is it Marilyn Monroe?"
But she'd just get salty and say, "Why you want to know about it?"
And I'd say, "I was just wondering if she ever sat for Van Gogh"

It was either her or the straight man who introduced me
To Jeanette, Camilla's friend
Who later on falsely accused me
Of stealing her locket and pen

When I said "I don't have the locket"
She said "You steal pictures of everybody's mother I know"
And I said "There's no locket
No picture of any mother I would pocket
Unless it's been done by Van Gogh"

Camilla's house stood on the outskirts
How strange to see the chandeliers destroyed...


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 00:24 GMT 
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Just saw that my post Reviewing this was Linked on the Front Page Today... :mrgreen:

A First for me. Very proud that you thought it was worthy Karl.


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 00:29 GMT 
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Nice Illy! Link?


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 00:43 GMT 
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Still Go Barefoot wrote:
Nice Illy! Link?


Under Today's News

40 - The Lyrics: Since 1962 - (Expecting Rain Discussions) by Illy Dylan 1100

If you are asking for the actual review:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79187&start=206


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 01:51 GMT 
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Yeah, Illy. Very worthy. I like the slip discussion, funny.
I hope to dissect mine this winter sometime.

Illy Dylan wrote:
So I got my copy a few days ago and have been examining it...

First, it's huge & heavy. Daunting really, in a "Wow, Bob really has written a lot of songs hasn't he?" way. Second, it's very sharp/classy. The presentation is clean & top notch. Third, the introduction by Ricks a nicely contructed and well written.

Fourth, The Lyrics themselves. I will admit right from the beginning, I have not gone through this tome thoroughly, and have not inspected every nook and cranny. I simply went through the whole thing once at a relatively quick pace. Also I will mention that I have never owned any other Edition of Bob's "Lyrics", so I don't know if these things I'm about to detail are included in those previous versions, but here it goes anyways.

I honed in on a few specific things I thought may be of interest/show what this Edition has to offer/has corrected... One thing I went to immediately was "Buckets of Rain", because I had just posted a few days before in the "What Lyrics Have You Gotten Wrong?" thread my confusion as to the last lines of "Buckets". I have always heard the final lines as:

"Life is sad, Life is a bust
All you can do, is do what you must
You do what you must do, and you do it well
I do it for you, honey baby, can't you tell?"

but the official lyrics(bobdylan.com, etc) have always stated it's:

"I'll do it for you, honey baby, can't you tell?"

A small difference, but signifigant... The latter is promisary, while the former is declarative and to me carries much more weight in this situation(the final line of the greatest "Breakup" album ever made). It's a plea to see, as opposed to a promise to possibly fulfill down the road. It's the statement of a person on the verge of losing someone they love and have commited their soul to, as opposed to the statement of someone trying to woo a person into a commitment... Basically, that little difference between "I do it for you" and "I'll do it for you" is all the difference in the World. lol

So it was to my very pleasant suprise that in this new Edition, it has been corrected to "I do it for you", with the previously put forth version(I assume printed in the other Lyrics books) of "I'll do it for you" on the right side of the same page in a different color(I think grey), to show the difference/correction between what's actually sung as opposed to what was copyrighted. This is just a small example of what "Bob Dylan: The Lyrics Since 1962" gets right and what justifies it's wonderful existence.

Further more, there are 3 Entire(and varying) Sets of Lyrics Transcriptions for "Caribbean Wind". I would assume some of this is new?... Also, the Atlernate Lyrics that he now performs for "Workingman's Blues #2" with the vastly changed Verses is printed here along side the Album Version Lyrics(which indicates that the new version he's been performing is not a new re-write, but was written at the time)... As has already been mentioned, having The Bootleg Series Lyrics now in here is a major addition. It's great to be able to see the Lyrics for the TTS Disc 1 Version of "Most of the Time" and have confirmed or disspelled what it actually was he was saying at some of the faster parts on that wonderful version.

It should be noted that the Lyrics for "Heartland"(1993 Song with Willie Nelson) and "Waitin' For You" are listed as Outtakes/Unreleased for "Love and Theft"? Would that indicate the both of these were attempted/recorded during the L&T Sessions? Hmmm...

"Tangled Up in Blue" gets transcriptions and alternate line annotations galore(Real Live, BS 1-3, BS 5, etc), another example of how the format used for this Edition can be very effective.

On the flipside of "Buckets of Rain", the Lyric Transcription of TTS Disc 1 "Mississippi" still states the line as being "I crossed that river" as opposed to "I'd cross that river", which is what I'm absolutely 100% certain he sings on that take of the song... But oh well, we'll just to agree to disagree on that one. :lol:

This is just a tiny sample of the things this book offers... And I'm certain that repeated visits and more time spent going over the whole thing will produce countless other proper corrections and intriguing suprises.

Fifth, I don't know where any real dissatisfaction would come from with the actual product... It's what it was advertised to be. Bob Dylan's Lyrics Since 1962, presented in a Premium Very Limited Edition...

The most prevalent complaint so far(on Amazon & Elsewhere) seems to be about a Slip Case not being included like it will be with the 50 Signed Copies... I understand that bobdylan.com had the "Slip Case" in their description and picture, but nowhere was a Slip Case mentioned on Amazon or Simon & Shuaster for that matter. Do I think that at the price this Book Cost(The Publisher themselves bragging it was the biggest most expensive thing they had ever published) we should have gotten a Slip Case to protect this thing of Beauty? Absolutely... Was I kind of hoping it might come with the Slip Case like bobdylan.com promised? Honestly Yeah... Did I actually expect it to arrive with the Slip Case? No, I suspected it was a misstake on bobdylan.com's part and would only come with the signed Edition... Did it arriving without a Slip Case ruin the book for me or make me less impressed by the Edition itself? Absolutely Not.

I mean really... At the end of the day, did you buy this thing for the Lyrics? Or A Slip Box?... The Lyrics are there. lol

I hope Simon & Shuaster do the right thing by the dissapointed customers and make up some more Slip Cases to atone for the error on bobdylan.com and make them available for those that purchased the book and feel they are owed a Slip Case... God knows Simon & Shuaster are making enough Money off this thing to be able to make this right and quiet the distraction, so that this Book can receive the praise it desearves.

On the other hand, I bought the "Box of Vision" Set... And Wonder if "The Lyrics Since 1962" would fit in there in place of the Binder? Hmmm... Gonna have to give it a try...

The "extensive annotations" by Ricks were abandoned, and this was made perfectly clear well in advance. So I don't know why anyone would be suprised/dissapointed to find them not there. *shrugs*

Anyways, if I had any complaints with the Book, it would be part of what makes it so Grand and Beautiful... And that's the Size & The Weight... Really the weight. I'm a 28 year old young man. The Book is freakin heavy, and hard to read casually or for enjoyment purposes because of this. It's a shame really, but I don't know how they would have remedied it and still made their point so gloriously(here's looking at you Nobel Committee)... But yeah, pulling it out and finding a way to browse it comfortably is a chore.

And yes, it would have been welcome to have all the lyrics from "The Basement Tapes Complete". But I wouldn't wish the task on my worst enemy to have to come up with definitive lyric transcripts for some of those recordings(Hello "I'm Not There"), so I understand why they took a pass.

Also, from time to time, you'll come across 2 or 3 Blank Pages all in a row... Which is strange. I don't know exactly what they were going for with that?... But hey, maybe's it's so you can jot down your own transcriptions of Lyrics from your favorite Obscure Unreleased Live Lyric Variations not detailed in the book? :lol: ... There you go, that problem's solved. :mrgreen:

In Closing... I'm very happy with my purchase of "Bob Dylan: The Lyrics Since 1962", and I can't imagine any big Bob Dylan fan that could spend some time with it wouldn't feel the same. I'm glad I got one of the 3,500 Copies before they sold out, and I have sneaking suspicion I'll be feeling that even more over the next fews years as this thing raises in value(note to you people canceling over a Slip Case, you'll probably be able to sell it in month for double it's cost, if not already).

Anyways, that's all I've got.



Excellent!


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 03:48 GMT 

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can someone please tell me what this release says for the 2nd verse of temporary like achilles?
or more specifically, how does this line end: "I'm trying to read your..."?


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 09:37 GMT 
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I had already pre-ordered this book from my record store.
It said it was supposed to be released last night, but now they have removed it from their website.

Sigh, seems like I have to buy an expensive copy from overseas.. :evil:


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 10:37 GMT 
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Is it printed on recycled paper?


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PostPosted: Fri November 7th, 2014, 13:07 GMT 
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Hurly Burly wrote:
Is this 1966 song in it?

Definitely Van Gogh

When I'd ask why the painting was deadly
Nobody could pick up my sign
Except for the cook, she was always friendly
But she'd only ask, "What's on your mind?"

She'd say that especially when it was raining
I'd say "Oh, I don't know"
But then she'd press and I'd say, "You see that painting?
Do you think it's been done by Van Gogh?"

The cook she said call her Maria
She'd always point for the same boy to come forth
Saying, "He trades cattle, it's his own idea
And he also makes trips to the North

Have you ever seen his naked calf bleed?"
I'd say, "Oh no, why does it show?"
Then she'd whisper in my ear that he's a half-breed
And I'd say, "Fine, but can he paint like Van Gogh?"

I can't remember his name he never gave it
But I always figured he could go home
Til when he'd gave me his card and said, "Save it"
I could see by his eyes he was alone

But it was sad how his four leaf clover
Drawn on his calling card showed
That it was given back to him a-many times over
And it most definitely was not done by Van Gogh

It was either she or the maid just to please me
Though I sensed she could not understand
And she made a thing out of it by saying, "Go easy
He's a straight, but he's a very crooked straight man"

And I'd say, "Does the girl in the calendar doubt it?
And by the way is it Marilyn Monroe?"
But she'd just get salty and say, "Why you want to know about it?"
And I'd say, "I was just wondering if she ever sat for Van Gogh"

It was either her or the straight man who introduced me
To Jeanette, Camilla's friend
Who later on falsely accused me
Of stealing her locket and pen

When I said "I don't have the locket"
She said "You steal pictures of everybody's mother I know"
And I said "There's no locket
No picture of any mother I would pocket
Unless it's been done by Van Gogh"

Camilla's house stood on the outskirts
How strange to see the chandeliers destroyed...

Yeah. It would be great to see the finished version of this, but I guess that's not going to happen.


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