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PostPosted: Mon August 5th, 2013, 00:01 GMT 
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I just wish that Mr. Warmuth would write a book so that we could read all of his opinions etc in one place.


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PostPosted: Thu December 19th, 2013, 05:08 GMT 
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Here is -- for the record -- A. Deley's article using Warmuth's work to accuse Dylan of plagiarism.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/12/bob-d ... lagiarism/

It's not a very well-written or carefully researched piece (Warmuth himself noted a couple of errors made by Deley when citing Warmuth's work). And it seems to try to make up for weaknesses in argumentation with rhetorical tactics. But, I thought it ought to be noted in this thread.

We just don't know how Warmuth's research will be used and what the consequences of his discoveries will be for Dylan's legacy.

It's worth paying attention to.


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PostPosted: Thu December 19th, 2013, 09:43 GMT 
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Absent an appropriate thread for the art sources, I hope scottw will continue to post any new sources or information regarding the artwork or possible 'collusion' with Richard Prince in this thread, as I think that Prince in particular is informing/inspiring much of Dylan's work at this point, including both his artwork and in his writing projects, including his songs.

Thanks for your detective work on these projects scott. It's much appreciated and admired.


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PostPosted: Thu December 19th, 2013, 10:19 GMT 
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I think Scott is staying away from a thread that bears his name and directly, primarily discusses him. That's appropriate, I think. But maybe it's time to start a Warmuth repository thread. He can put his discoveries there.

This has been a good thread, though. It began as a kind of investigation into the viability of Warmuth's project.

I think a more salient question now is how Warmuth's work will affect Dylan's legacy.

More and more, it seems there's some dynamite in his blog posts.

A wise and funny person once said that Warmuth is a dangerous man. A jest, of course. But like every joke...


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PostPosted: Thu December 19th, 2013, 12:48 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
I think Scott is staying away from a thread that bears his name and directly, primarily discusses him. That's appropriate, I think. But maybe it's time to start a Warmuth repository thread. He can put his discoveries there.

This has been a good thread, though. It began as a kind of investigation into the viability of Warmuth's project.

I think a more salient question now is how Warmuth's work will affect Dylan's legacy.

More and more, it seems there's some dynamite in his blog posts.

A wise and funny person once said that Warmuth is a dangerous man. A jest, of course. But like every joke...

If he would publish it all in a book so that it is out there. I think that may help his case.
He makes some very valid points , but then again so do his critics.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 18:20 GMT 
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I was in The British Library a few days ago . I was looking in the historical documents section . I saw a lot of interesting things there .
However one of the most interesting concerned Shakespeare and Chaucer. It seems that Shakespeare, used Chaucer as a source for at least three of his plays.
If it is good enough for Shakespeare to take from other writers then why not for Bob. To me it highlights what I have been saying ever since this thread started either consciously or not. It is part of most authors development of a writing process and there is nothing wrong with it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 18:50 GMT 
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Most authors? We'd not be talking about it if everybody did it.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 21:37 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
Most authors? We'd not be talking about it if everybody did it.

The fact is most authors do. It is well known . It just seems to be ok for some one of the stature of Shakespeare who is long dead. Chaucer's works have a lot in common with Boccaccio .
However from the earliest days people many fans and non fans seem to want to imply that there is something not exactly right if Dylan does it. I strongly disagree.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 21:46 GMT 
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I'd like to see some contemporary examples, please. Shouldn't be too hard to do if everybody does it. It's just an unfounded claim otherwise.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 21:56 GMT 
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To my knowledge, very few contemporary authors or musicians do what Dylan does for the simple reason that it's really hard to do well. Probably the best correlation would be to hip hop DJ's in the years before the free sampling window was slammed shut by record labels. It's easy to accuse someone like Terminator X or the Dust Brothers of "stealing" musical ideas, but one need only listen to the many awful rap records of the time to realize it's an art form that requires true skill to pull off. Dylan's own theft, while less blatantly obvious to those of us who lack Scott Warmuth's patience and research abilities, falls into the same category.


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PostPosted: Fri May 23rd, 2014, 23:23 GMT 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-up_technique

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bricolage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appropriation_(art)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastiche

...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ealed.html

...


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PostPosted: Sat May 24th, 2014, 07:41 GMT 
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movin_after_midnight wrote:
to those of us who lack Scott Warmuth's patience and research abilities


Thanks to the new Dylanologists book by Kinney, it's now official that Scott uses Google just like the rest of us. It never was rocket science or cryptology after all.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24th, 2014, 08:15 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
movin_after_midnight wrote:
to those of us who lack Scott Warmuth's patience and research abilities


Thanks to the new Dylanologists book by Kinney, it's now official that Scott uses Google just like the rest of us. It never was rocket science or cryptology after all.

Exactly


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PostPosted: Wed May 28th, 2014, 21:04 GMT 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aku6J7kaTVM#t=173

"Bob Dylan: Plagiarist? (Scott Warmuth - Full Interview)
The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow"


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PostPosted: Sun June 1st, 2014, 13:10 GMT 
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MMD wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aku6J7kaTVM#t=173

"Bob Dylan: Plagiarist? (Scott Warmuth - Full Interview)
The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow The Zero Hour with RJ Eskow"

If Dylan is to be called a plagiarist, he is certainly not alone and has some outstanding company.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 13:13 GMT 
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http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-edito ... s-reviewed

"How does it feel to be pathologised?": "The Dylanologists" reviewed:
"Kinney is particularly good at detailing the research of Dylanologists like Scott Warmuth (www.swarmuth.blogspot.co.uk), who see their subject as a fairground illusionist, a fiendish riddle-setter. Unlike some, Warmuth isn’t interested in looking for what Kinney calls “an answer key or a master code”. A complete and transparent understanding of Dylan is not his goal. Instead, “He was having the time of his life working out an elaborately-constructed puzzle linking his twin loves, music and books.”
Read more at http://www.uncut.co.uk/node/20296#mPGBbyiXc11MohBK.99


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 13:40 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
movin_after_midnight wrote:
to those of us who lack Scott Warmuth's patience and research abilities


Thanks to the new Dylanologists book by Kinney, it's now official that Scott uses Google just like the rest of us. It never was rocket science or cryptology after all.


I wonder if he asked him if he keeps track of the number of times his name appears to the ER front page. He sure keeps himself out there.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 13:42 GMT 
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Is Warmuth the new Weberman?


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:00 GMT 
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Warmuth has completely changed the understanding of Bob's complex allusion processes - i've been saying that since 2006-2007


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:09 GMT 
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stephenoxford wrote:
Is Warmuth the new Weberman?

No.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:10 GMT 
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bobschool wrote:
Warmuth has completely changed the understanding of Bob's complex allusion processes - i've been saying that since 2006-2007

I agree - he's done some really worthwhile work that is grounded in reality, unlike Weberman.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:14 GMT 
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It's claiming to know the connections Bob intends or wants noticed that's off.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:27 GMT 
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Do Weberman and Warmuth not both share an obsessive desire to show the world that they know the answer to Bob Dylan, and that the key is not Frank? And, thus by default, try and make themselves look cleverer than the man himself? Garbology and Quotology?


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 15:38 GMT 
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stephenoxford wrote:
Do Weberman and Warmuth not both share an obsessive desire to show the world that they know the answer to Bob Dylan, and that the key is not Frank? And, thus by default, try and make themselves look cleverer than the man himself? Garbology and Quotology?


Yes - but Warmuth has well researched evidence, while Weberman just has his own mad delusions.


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PostPosted: Tue June 3rd, 2014, 16:28 GMT 
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Exactly. There are occasional things Warmuth cites that don't convince, but the vast majority do, on an objective level. It's not "rain means heroin" type stuff.

Johanna Parker wrote:
It's claiming to know the connections Bob intends or wants noticed that's off.

I don't know about all of his conclusions but he seems to have a pretty open mind and a pretty light touch when it comes to assuming what the quotations "mean". I haven't read him as extensively as some, though.


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