Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Tue October 24th, 2017, 09:40 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 01:30 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 11455
Location: in the land where dreams are made....
oldmanemu wrote:
it is possible he has read them all.

I doubt that.... for no other reason than after a while he might find them tiresome reading....

I think that the personality 'Bob Dylan' is just as third person to him (the actual person) as it is to us. He has even said so, very bluntly, on more than one occasion.... as early as saying "I have my Bob Dylan mask on tonight". I think that he might tune in occasionally to check out that personality..... to see who that appears to be, from others point of view. To read them as a story of him rather than the way you would read an historical bio would be silly..... there is so much of the actual person of Bob Dylan that he has kept so under wraps.... or maybe right out, but no one is looking (or at least no one is seeing) ... that he cannot possible consider any of those bio a story of him the person..... too much would be missing from his point of view for it to be believed by him.

So he is known to like historical stuff..... he knows that the personality of Bob Dylan is an historical figure.... so why not read them.

The only thing that is too bad is that the person that writes those wonderful songs.... the real person.... may actually end up being lost to time in end.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 02:37 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11532
Location: brighton uk
Well said - a case of "who was that masked man?" which only serves to underline the art. Truthfully, how many people could be summarized annotated and accounted for by other peoples recollections? Even personal memory is suspect. Life passes minute by minute, all that is left are recordings


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 03:29 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 11455
Location: in the land where dreams are made....
I have said this before..... I think that he keeps journals.... not to be read until after he is gone so that nobody can ask him to explain them.... :lol: ..... maybe someday those will be a hint of the 'real' Bob Dylan..... not the public personality.... but the real Bob Dylan..... Those are more than likely not on the shelf.... they are in the big trunk, with the big lock, with the key that ONLY he has..... You are right slimtimslide, even personal memory gets jumbled and foggy.... that is what made me think of this again.... I think he knew early on that he was going to be a piece of history so he wrote things down......... Hey, Bobkins, since you ain't letting us read Chronicles Vol. II or III, how about letting a few of us.... or maybe even just me.... have a look at these journals???? I won't tell anyone, promise, nobody :wink: The really funny thing about these journals would be that even if they do exist nobody gonna believe they are real.... because they are not going to match the stuff in Chronicles Vol. I :lol:

If not those then can we at least have a look at that Salt Lake City video from 1976???? :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 08:29 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue November 22nd, 2011, 02:56 GMT
Posts: 1827
Location: Whorehouse in Buenos Aires
I guess what emu is insinuating is that whatever Dylan has said about what he has or hasn't read should be taken with a grain of salt at best, but in the end, if we didn't believe his words, this thread would be worthless in the first place. Of course we won't know for sure which one of his autobiographies he really has or hasn't read. I used interviews as source and in quite a few of them he has said that he has ONLY read Robert Shelton's. But I also know that he reportedly told Scaduto that he "liked his book".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 11:41 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed September 14th, 2011, 13:25 GMT
Posts: 12324
Location: Wherever I am welcome
He liked Paul Williams' Bob Dylan: What Happened? because he bought 100 copies to give to his friends and family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 11:51 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
TheGunfighter wrote:
I guess what emu is insinuating is that whatever Dylan has said about what he has or hasn't read should be taken with a grain of salt at best, but in the end, if we didn't believe his words, this thread would be worthless in the first place. Of course we won't know for sure which one of his autobiographies he really has or hasn't read. I used interviews as source and in quite a few of them he has said that he has ONLY read Robert Shelton's. But I also know that he reportedly told Scaduto that he "liked his book".




I'm sure he reads voraciously. He used to have people choose books for him from a bookstore in D.C. that he stopped in when he was in town. It's a little boutique bookstore that specializes in literature, criticism about film, literature, music and drama, and Judaica. I think he first discovered it because it was literally next door to a hotel he stayed in a number of times. I can't imagine that anyone who writes that well with so many different references hasn't read almost anything he can get his hands on. The things he knows about structure - most people learn those things from reading, they don't know that much intuitively. The interest in songs about the Civil War, for example, is probably backed up with having read a lot about the Civil War or the interest in the songs would probably not make much sense. Who today reads Tacitus? I also know that he used to purchase a lot of books from E. S. Wilentz famous bookstore in the Village back when he lived there. That was a great store and the shelves were mercifully free of junk. If it existed today, you'd never find a copy of "Fifty Shades of Grey" in that place. In the 1960s and 70s, you couldn't turn a corner in that neighborhood without running into yet another little independent bookstore. There was one a few blocks away from MacDougal Street that dealt only in political books, including carrying mimeographed books by the Weather Underground, weird stuff that you'd never find in a regular bookstore. That was back in the day when people opened bookstores and carefully 'curated' what merchandise they wanted to carry, often based on personal taste, rather than just whatever was likely to sell to anybody walking in off the street. There were tiny bookstores in that area - and throughout New York City - that carried only books about art or only books about filmmaking. If you loved books, it was a great place to live in those days.


Lily Rose - great insight that he may read books about himself because he's 'checking in' on how writers are writing about the "Bpb Dylan" persona, to see how that project is going. That does seem possible, if for no other reason than amusing himself.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he keeps journals. I also think that if he doesn't burn them periodically, he has left instructions with someone he trusts to burn them immediately after his death because 99% of people don't want that stuff available to the public. What we might see someday that would be interesting would be a collection of his letters. A friend of mine once found a postcard Dylan had sent to someone stuck inside a poetry book in a used bookstore. The recipient (or someone related to them) probably decided to sell the book without noticing the postcard was stuck inside. We've heard that Dylan used to write letters to Johnny and June Cash. There may be some great letters to be collected some day. I doubt anyone he has written letters to has gotten rid of them.
Who wouldn't want to see letters he wrote to Suze Rotolo while she was in Europe?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 12:48 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 11455
Location: in the land where dreams are made....
I agree that many people have their writings burned upon their death..... but I don't think he will..... for two reasons:

1. Can't ya just see him, having a good chuckle to himself thinking.... 'wow, this is really gonna screw them up.... they have been so far off on so much, for so long, and now they read this. A whole other direction than they would expect'. Remember the part in NDH where Joan Baez remembers about his saying..... 'years from now all these people are going to read these (lyrics) and want to know what it is all about.... and I don't know what the f*ck it's about' (it was something like that). I think that in the early years the personality stepped out and did stuff that he didn't even quite get.... he knew it was good, but didn't understand why anymore than anyone else...... then in those Woodstock years he stepped back in..... he talks about having to learn to do consciously what he knew to do unconsiously before. I would be surprised if there were journals before that time..... unless he was one of those kids that wrote when they were younger.... but then I would think some of that would have surfaced by now.

2. He writes them for history..... yeah, it is gonna be like an album..... some junk, some ok, some pretty good.....and then those real stand out gems that must be read..... not even so much for him personally..... he has lived in the center of some of the very important history of the '60's and then his viewpoint on so many other times and places.... and people... think of the span of people he has meet in his life.....

Yes, his letters will be interesting..... and I agree, I think he has written to lots of people..... and I bet still does. Writing to people is safe, you can address what issues you want, and ignore the ones you don't want to talk about.... If you talk one on one to someone they can say, 'hey, what about whatever', but in writing you have to take what you get, you can re-ask, but then it can be re-ignored.... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 13:16 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
Lily Rose, I disagree on the 'possible' journals, notebooks or diaries. He's been obsessively private his entire life, not only for his own sake but for the sake of his family. I don't think he'll want personal information dispersed after his death anymore than he wants it out now. I think creating the 'Bob Dylan' persona was about 90% about striving to maintain some personal privacy before he realized how famous he would become.

That's an interesting point about all the influential people he's known, like politicians, statesmen, other artists and luminaries. It's a very good argument for more volumes of Chronicles. Unless he somehow separates notations about such things outside of his (supposedly being kept) journals, I don't think we'll ever see them the same way we aren't going to see any other part of such journals.

Recall in Chronicles that he continually referred to the women he was married to as 'my wife.' That was unusually reticent as anyone can discover the names of his ex-wives (that we know of) in less than a minute on the internet. He also concealed the existence of his youngest child for many years. It's easy to understand why (to protect her privacy) but very few celebrities ever bother to do anything like that.

I don't believe he will ever agree to the publication of anything about his lovers, exwives, children, other relatives or close friends. He also has basically avoided discussing his process for most of his life, so I wouldn't expect to see journal entries about that either. This can all be handled very simply by instructing someone he trusts to destroy any such materials. I think he believes he's offered up as much as he wants to in his work and in Chronicles. Dylan has never been a very open person and I don't see why he'd be eager for everything to be revealed after his death when his immediate family will still be alive.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat June 29th, 2013, 13:47 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 11455
Location: in the land where dreams are made....
I would agree, that except in passing, or as part of a story, he may not write about his family, even in hidden journals.... but I think he would write more of his world view, about others that he has meet out in the world.... about Sun Pie :wink: I would expect that he has very stong opinions about lots of stuff that they cannot get him to talk about now....does anyone really believe that he does not follow politics, in this country and world wide..... he does not talk about his opinions openly, but I sure be he has them..... the journals may even talk about the meanings he has found in his lyrics.... another thing they might not nail him down to now, but that he may tell after he is no more and doesn't have to hear comments on. As I said, I think he writes for history..... if his full person/family story comes out it will be from someone among his children or grandchildren that comes out with it. I don't think the journals will be gossip (well, maybe some), I expect them to be thoughts and maybe memories of what it was like to play in such and such a place..... more like the parts of Chronicles where he talks about finding new way to sing........ why he felt he needed to go to garage and do old folk songs....... to find his way back.....go inside what that was like for him..... or maybe why the 80's were not a lost time..... maybe even details of his trip to the crossroads!!!!! :P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun June 30th, 2013, 01:49 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 28th, 2007, 07:16 GMT
Posts: 23501
Location: any where a music tragic might be found
It is not necessary to have read most of a book to quote from it or know something about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun June 30th, 2013, 12:08 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue November 22nd, 2011, 02:56 GMT
Posts: 1827
Location: Whorehouse in Buenos Aires
oldmanemu wrote:
It is not necessary to have read most of a book to quote from it or know something about it.

Which is why most people seem to think I'm more well-read than I really am. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun June 30th, 2013, 12:46 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 28th, 2007, 07:16 GMT
Posts: 23501
Location: any where a music tragic might be found
TheGunfighter wrote:
oldmanemu wrote:
It is not necessary to have read most of a book to quote from it or know something about it.

Which is why most people seem to think I'm more well-read than I really am. :D

:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat August 3rd, 2013, 18:22 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11th, 2011, 05:31 GMT
Posts: 5032
Anybody know if he's ever mentioned Hart Crane?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat August 3rd, 2013, 18:28 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43202
Location: Beneath the Southern X
Giada wrote:
Anybody know if he's ever mentioned Hart Crane?


Regarding quotes, I don't recall ever reading about that, but apparently he mentioned him on Theme Time:
http://www.thebobdylanfanclub.com/content/hart-crane


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun August 4th, 2013, 06:52 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11th, 2011, 05:31 GMT
Posts: 5032
^
thanks. do you know if he's ever mentioned/alluded to/nicked from Philip K. Dick?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun August 4th, 2013, 08:18 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43202
Location: Beneath the Southern X
Giada wrote:
^
thanks. do you know if he's ever mentioned/alluded to/nicked from Philip K. Dick?


Nothing I'm aware of at this moment.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun August 4th, 2013, 23:55 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 28th, 2007, 07:16 GMT
Posts: 23501
Location: any where a music tragic might be found
Johanna Parker wrote:
Giada wrote:
^
thanks. do you know if he's ever mentioned/alluded to/nicked from Philip K. Dick?


Nothing I'm aware of at this moment.

Does not mean he has not read it , or is not aware of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 15th, 2013, 04:13 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11th, 2011, 05:31 GMT
Posts: 5032
what books do you have on your list so far, JP?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 15th, 2013, 07:49 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43202
Location: Beneath the Southern X
Giada wrote:
what books do you have on your list so far, JP?


Mainly just the ones he's been found to have quoted from from TOOM onwards. I add things here and there as I find them, but have given up on compiling a list just to post here. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of interest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 15th, 2013, 12:50 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 28th, 2007, 07:16 GMT
Posts: 23501
Location: any where a music tragic might be found
Johanna Parker wrote:
Giada wrote:
what books do you have on your list so far, JP?


Mainly just the ones he's been found to have quoted from from TOOM onwards. I add things here and there as I find them, but have given up on compiling a list just to post here. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of interest.

I am very interested.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu August 15th, 2013, 15:58 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11th, 2011, 05:31 GMT
Posts: 5032
ya, me, too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue August 20th, 2013, 17:36 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43202
Location: Beneath the Southern X
Will add here as I come across any mention of books he might have owned or read. Maybe others can do the same.

From the 1966 UK tour program notes by Robert Shelton:
- "a book of Yevtushenko's poems" (given to Dylan by Jean Redpath)
- "some books by Martin Buber" (given to Dylan by Grossman)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue August 20th, 2013, 20:29 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 13th, 2012, 17:27 GMT
Posts: 1964
Location: Passing through
I knew he would have read Martin Buber! Reading "I and Thou" again last spring made me understand Dylan better... He is all about "existence in a relationship without bounds".

Thanks Joanna :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue August 20th, 2013, 20:32 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43202
Location: Beneath the Southern X
Mutabor wrote:
I knew he would have read Martin Buber! Reading "I and Thou" again last spring made me understand Dylan better... He is all about "existence in a relationship without bounds".

Thanks Joanna :)


You're welcome. :)
I read this mentioned somewhere else recently, but don't recall where... too much Dylan literature.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue August 20th, 2013, 21:37 GMT 

Joined: Mon July 15th, 2013, 01:03 GMT
Posts: 141
Amazing! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group