Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Sat December 16th, 2017, 15:05 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 940 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 38  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:36 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 11th, 2013, 19:13 GMT
Posts: 302
rbgeorge wrote:
You're right. The very well-supported narrative of "Bob just didn't like Duke and/or his playing, so he treated him badly and Duke eventually quit" could be an enormous coincidence. :wink:


Warren Peace wrote:
It's more like I'm not willing to pretend I watch a reality show about Bob's life because I read a few weird facebook posts :wink: Oh, and second-hand accounts of Bob speaking to Duke on stage regarding conversations no one heard. As always, thinking we know the man is arrogance and nothing more.


Warren Peace wrote:
That video is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you decipher anything from this little postage stamp off in the distance? He puts his hand on his hip at one point, that's certainly true. He definitely walks off and talks to someone. Anything else is just projecting.


Think about it for a second. Really think, Warren.

Bob has a history of shaming band members onstage. At times it's become a rather serious issue (JJ, Stu). There were reports of Bob shaming Duke from day one. Things seemed to come to a head recently, Duke made a post on facebook about selling all of his Dylan albums, left the tour, and made several follow-up posts that also fit the scenario I'm describing here.

For instance, take this post:

Quote:
How can you NOT love BD? Guess I'll be keeping CDs! LOL


What do you get from that post, Warren? Do you look at that and say, Gee, it sounds like Duke really loves Bob, end of story, no need to read anything else into it? I imagine you do.

It's really kind of sad, Warren, that a sane (?) adult would deny what has obviously happened here. If Duke left the tour for reasons unrelated to his widely-noted onstage difficulties, such as a family or health issue, it would be a HUGE coincidence.

Please note that I do not claim to know exactly what happened here. I just think that we have more than enough reason to develop (very) reasonable beliefs as to what happed here in general. Might we be surprised by some of the details? Probably. Would those details subvert the gist of what I and many others are "assuming" about this situation? I seriously doubt it.

As for the "postage stamp" video... :roll: Not only do we have all sorts of firsthand reports from people on the rail, the best and most detailed coming from people who seem to display a great deal of intellectual honesty, we actually have an excellent video of one of these "shamings"--most people who've commented on it since I posted it have seen what I saw. I mean, if you watch that video and all you came away from it with is, "Bob put his hand on his hip. So?" then I must assume that you have some issues with reading body language and communicating nonverbally.

By the way, I was about twenty feet from Bob and Duke while that video was being shot, as were other members of this forum who were on the rail that night who've weighed in on this, and virtually ALL of us recognized this as a shaming--a harsh one, at that.

Imagine any other major pop/rock musician who tours with a generic backing band. Imagine that they hire a new guitarist and the first night doesn't go very well. Can you imagine ANYONE other than Bob Dylan practically stopping the show to mock that guitarist openly and at length? Not just a quick grimace of disapproval or an onstage discussion, but standing a few meters away and openly mocking the guy while he's playing?

But you think whatever you like, Warren.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:41 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 11th, 2013, 19:13 GMT
Posts: 302
Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Grumpy-the-Buick wrote:
.
- it's ALSO part of the game to get it together and deliver when
the space is as big and obvious as it was at that 12:00 mark. ..


Well all this is guessing right. Back when that video first appeared everybody took it as if Bob was standing back being really impressed with Dukes work (you can go back and check this) now people think he is pissed an bad mouthing him.


I and one other attendee identified this as a shaming the same night as the show. You can check the setlist thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:43 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 03:43 GMT
Posts: 4906
I love when a thread survives its title as here - the question has been cracked by experience and here we is, sniffing forward like mutts in the morning air


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:45 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 11th, 2013, 19:13 GMT
Posts: 302
By the way, if you really can't see the stuff I described in that video, view it full-screen. It makes it a lot easier to see when Bob drops his head, "slaps" his harp mic on the piano, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 11:46 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 03:43 GMT
Posts: 4906
rbgeorge wrote:
It's really kind of sad, Warren, that a sane (?) adult would deny what has obviously happened here. If Duke left the tour for reasons unrelated to his widely-noted onstage difficulties, such as a family or health issue, it would be a HUGE coincidence.
But you think whatever you like, Warren.
Rre: Sane, he's been here quite a...goodly while, rbg. Just sayin. I like the man's pluck!


Last edited by AndoDoug on Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:13 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:10 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat September 13th, 2008, 03:43 GMT
Posts: 4906
Quote:
AWESOME...in researching my previous comments on this event, I found an excellent video of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E

Fast forward to about 12:00 or so. Bob gives Duke a ridiculous amount of room to solo and Duke just doesn't go anywhere with it.


It's obvious the moment Duke steps into the solo that he's tromping all over the song with a generic riff - the band lurches questioningly, not knowing how to fix it at first.

Bob gives up on playing - 70 year olds aren't slow to get exasperated. Then leaves his place and gets back just as a another go-round of the solo kicks in - Duke tries to change the harmonic, or somethin, but it soon becomes clear to bob this this ain't goin' nowhere. How do I know all this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:42 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
can someone re post all the videos where Bob was giving Charlie the evil eye from last year. for well over a year Bob was giving him the evil eye and giving him 'no room to solo' the ones 'where i never seen him so angry before'. the ones with Charlie was tossing his stuff around and hollerin at the sound guy. :shock:

now hes been given "plenty of room to solo". Plenty of room to solo? like an ynwge magaelwstein track? :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:49 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
Warren Peace wrote:
goombay wrote:
Duke didnt just walk into a guitar 5 minutes ago, whatever agreement he had with Bob was in written form. :D


I feel what you're sayin' ... THE GREAT DYLAN/ROBILLARD TRIAL BEGINS! Is the world ready for two Zimmerman court cases!?



The always reliable Devoted Bob Dylan Bashers fans are lining up to testify for the prosecution, whoever wrote 'a house divided cannot stand' never had to privilege of attending 200 NET shows in a row. or studying 2 min yuoutube videos. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:52 GMT 

Joined: Fri June 26th, 2009, 17:57 GMT
Posts: 82
rbgeorge wrote:
rbgeorge wrote:
... we actually have an excellent video of one of these "shamings"--


Is it this video you´re talkin´about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL6q63j0m1E

I can´t find the shaming.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 12:59 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
some good rock and roll bosses are
van morrison who regularly and punctualy fires his entire band from the stage prior to the ending of the show.

the rolling stones, where poor soloing is punished by having keith richards attack you with a guitar, luckily he got stick arms


James Brown who doesnt pay you for the gig and pistol whips you


Charlie RIch- wholl punch you out, slap you around kick you on the head rip your clothes and then toss you a couple of twentys so you can seek refuge in the house of david, all for wearing a beard

Justin Bieber who has his posse hang you upside down from the 10 floor balcony for double dipping on your dance steps


Bob is the Boss of the Year. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:02 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
Burning Spear wrote:
I can´t find the shaming.




you cant spot the allegorical cane whupping by Bob? what are you, a bad devoted fan?
WHAT????? burn the video to disc and scan it on the new SnoopDog software. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:08 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16795
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
I'm sure if it were a family issue that would be made public in some fashion to avoid the negative publicity this throws on both camps. I haven't seen the video but I have no trouble believing a shaming took place onstage, I just don't see how that means Duke left for "musical" reasons rather than because Bob treated him like crap, most likely off the stage as well as on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:12 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 11th, 2013, 19:13 GMT
Posts: 302
Duke posted that it wasn't for musical reasons. With just a bit of reading between the lines, this FB post amounts to "Bob is a jerk":

Quote:
I will make one small non -cryptic post hear to clear up any confusion or misinterpretation. I left the Bob Dylan tour of my own accord. All I can say is it wasn't for musical reasons and please don't ask any more. I enjoyed my brief stay there and had a lot of fun with the band playing Bob's music. I have great respect for him as an artist. I will miss everyone in the organization as they are all wonderful people. I wish them continued success and I will miss them all. Case closed!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:14 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon September 10th, 2012, 23:07 GMT
Posts: 79
Quote:

I and one other attendee identified this as a shaming the same night as the show. You can check the setlist thread.


We were on the rail at the Buffalo show and I was CLOSELY watching Bob's face during Duke's "whatever the hell it was he was doing" and Dylan was CLEARLY pissed off he does not hide his emotions well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:16 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16795
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
rbgeorge wrote:
Duke posted that it wasn't for musical reasons. With just a bit of reading between the lines, this FB post amounts to "Bob is a jerk":

Quote:
I will make one small non -cryptic post hear to clear up any confusion or misinterpretation. I left the Bob Dylan tour of my own accord. All I can say is it wasn't for musical reasons and please don't ask any more. I enjoyed my brief stay there and had a lot of fun with the band playing Bob's music. I have great respect for him as an artist. I will miss everyone in the organization as they are all wonderful people. I wish them continued success and I will miss them all. Case closed!



Yes, that is how I took the post as well...I don't think he left for musical reasons, I think Bob treated him like crap.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:20 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
Duke should stay close by the phone, for when Charlie quits for when Bob treats him like a jerk shaming him with cold stares detected by the snoog doggy fans, he can take over again. :shock:

its like that book by the guy in the capt beefheart band, capt beefheart treated him like dirt for years but he didnt have the courage to leave, but he found religion and finally left. he got home and prayed to Jesus to thank him and ask him what to do. jesus said son go back to capt beefheart.

so in retrospect it may not be bob or duke or charlie, it may be nature. :o


PS i forgot to mention one of the great rock and roll bosses, tho i use the term rock and roll loosely here, and its more like an ex rock and roll boss. Joni Mithcell, who if she found out you had rhythim made you play wearing cement shoes onstage. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:51 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon April 2nd, 2007, 06:31 GMT
Posts: 774
canIjumponitsometime wrote:
By "boring" I mean it doesn't sound to me that it fits too good into Dylan's music I'm used to. But I'm not an expert, it's only my opinion. Over and out.



Yeah well, boring or not is a matter of taste and another topic. Same could be said for all of Denny Freemans 2-3 year stint IMHO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 13:56 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon April 2nd, 2007, 06:31 GMT
Posts: 774
rbgeorge wrote:
By the way, I was about twenty feet from Bob and Duke while that video was being shot, as were other members of this forum who were on the rail that night who've weighed in on this, and virtually ALL of us recognized this as a shaming--a harsh one, at that.

Imagine any other major pop/rock musician who tours with a generic backing band. Imagine that they hire a new guitarist and the first night doesn't go very well. Can you imagine ANYONE other than Bob Dylan practically stopping the show to mock that guitarist openly and at length? Not just a quick grimace of disapproval or an onstage discussion, but standing a few meters away and openly mocking the guy while he's playing?


If it really was a shaming - it REALLY rude behaviour, not matter who you are or which songs you've written. These guys are 73 and 64 respectively - they should really be too old for this kind of stuff. Maybe that whats Duke realized and was man enough to step out of this childish circus.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:25 GMT 

Joined: Sun March 22nd, 2009, 17:48 GMT
Posts: 3030
Location: Pittsburgh (duh!)
Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
If it really was a shaming - it REALLY rude behaviour, not matter who you are or which songs you've written. These guys are 73 and 64 respectively - they should really be too old for this kind of stuff. Maybe that whats Duke realized and was man enough to step out of this childish circus.

That by far is the most likely scenario.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:35 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed August 25th, 2010, 19:06 GMT
Posts: 1782
I started 'following' Duke a few days ago on Facebook. Seems like the guy just may be too down to earth for working with someone of Bob's caliber in the music industry! The higher up you get in the industry (i.e. Dylan's level) the weirder it becomes I feel!

I agree with Blind Boy - on stage 'shaming' of fellow musicians is ludicrous at that level of performance.

Seem like Robbie Robertson is one of the few men, in retrospect, that Bob was willing to concede time to when performing. Robertson is all over those 1966 shows.


Last edited by Oneofusmustknow on Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:41 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:38 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue July 5th, 2011, 00:30 GMT
Posts: 175
Blind Boy Zimmerman wrote:
Yeah well, boring or not is a matter of taste and another topic. Same could be said for all of Denny Freemans 2-3 year stint IMHO.


Yes, but to my taste I found it really boring. But I don't know the man's (Duke's) work. So I thought it would be better to correct and say that it didn't seem to fit, imho. And who is Denny Freeman? Gonna google it. I repeat, I'm not an expert, see?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:44 GMT 

Joined: Mon March 11th, 2013, 19:13 GMT
Posts: 302
Check out the comments to this RS article about Duke's departure:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... d-20130703

Several come from people who attended the Atlanta show and noticed conflict along the lines of what has been described in Buffalo, etc.

Quote:
During the Atlanta show on the 29th, I notice there were a few times Dylan would be extending out a harmonica solo, but Duke Robillard would start playing over him. Sometimes Dylan would just stop and stare at him; sometimes he'd turn to the other band members, looking a little pissed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:51 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue April 24th, 2007, 06:31 GMT
Posts: 2195
Location: Wherever the Dubonnet is.
So... to answer the question: yes, I think Duke is already finished in Bob's band.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:53 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon April 2nd, 2007, 06:31 GMT
Posts: 774
Oneofusmustknow wrote:
Seems like the guy just may be too down to earth for working with someone of Bob's caliber in the music industry! The higher up you get in the industry (i.e. Dylan's level) the weirder it becomes I feel!

I agree with Blind Boy - on stage 'shaming' of fellow musicians is ludicrous at that level of performance.

Seem like Robbie Robertson is one of the few men, in retrospect, that Bob was willing to concede time to when performing. Robertson is all over those 1966 shows.



They need to get a band psychiatrist :-D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu July 4th, 2013, 14:55 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat April 18th, 2009, 21:24 GMT
Posts: 5942
or bigger mirrors to keep the gossipy rubberneckers out. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 940 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 ... 38  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MrJudasPriest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group