Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Fri December 15th, 2017, 12:18 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Will Bob Dylan get the Noble Prize for Literature in 2012 ?
Yes 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
No 38%  38%  [ 43 ]
He should get it. 37%  37%  [ 42 ]
After "Tempest" he deserves it. 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
He doesn't deserve it - he is not a real writer. 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Other 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 114
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 18:26 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
raging_glory wrote:
Johanna Parker wrote:

Not at all, it's quite a pleasant day really. All I'm saying is that people are pleased for themselves each time Bob gets an award.


I'm afraid you're misinterpreting the word proud as used in this instance. I remember this same idea surfacing around the Medal of Freedom. You seem to think when someones says they are proud of him for receiving awards, that they are trying to share in his glory or accomplishments when in fact, that is not the type of pride being spoken of here. It would be more in line with the type of pride a parent has for their child. It's a thrill when they are recognized for an accomplishment or action in which you were already aware of, but the world at large may not have been. It's a quite common human emotion, you know. I just used family as a relate-able example. I am proud of ANY honor heaped upon Bob Dylan because I believe they are well deserved and HE deserves the praise or attention........not myself or anyone here who expresses that.



Very good post by raging here.

I was proud that the United States bestowed it's highest civilian honor on him with the Medal of Freedom. I'm happy when my government gets something right. That was getting something right in a big way.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 20:06 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu December 1st, 2011, 22:54 GMT
Posts: 369
Location: Pacific Northwest
I'm of two entirely different and almost mutually exclusive opinions on the matter of Dylan receiving a Nobel Prize for Literature.

In the "Yes" category...There's a debate that I'm sure we're all familiar with about whether or not song lyrics ever deserve to be treated as "Poetry." The general consensus seems to be "No...Except for Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen." I think that this debate is somewhat irrelevant. The real question should be whether or not songwriting should be viewed as its own category of literature. In my opinion, it should, as should screenwriting. If songwriting is to be embraced as literature, then who better than Bob Dylan to receive the prize? His influence on the craft, as well as on modern music and modern literature in general is enormous. He's one of a handful of genuine game-changers, and his long career of artistic innovation, which looks forward and back into a deep rooted poetic tradition, makes him a worthy candidate.

On the other hand, with so many hardworking innovators struggling for relevance in a culture that is increasingly disdainful of literature, do we really want to see a prominent musician given the prize? As has been mentioned, Bob Dylan doesn't need the prize...But the prize doesn't need him, either. Statements like that are merely concessions that the Nobel Prize needs bigger names to stay relevant, even if those names aren't necessarily literary figures. The prize needs to fight to prove that literature is not irrelevant, that it's still a valuable enterprise to read and write great books that expertly illuminate the nuances of human existence. If Bob Dylan were to receive the prize before, say, Thomas Pynchon (who really, really deserves it), then that's just one more nail in literature's coffin. I hate to use the slippery-slope fallacy, but I can't help but wonder if we give the prize to one songwriter how wide the door opens up for other songwriters. If Dylan gets it, then shouldn't Leonard Cohen (who, also, probably does deserve it at least as much as Dylan), Paul McCartney, and other notable living songwriters be considered too? How about filmmakers? Can any living novelist, poet, or playwright actually compete with these much bigger names? I think that, maybe, it's better to leave well-enough alone, and not introduce rock stars into the running, no matter how powerful they are as wordsmiths.

So, to try to reconcile both views, I think that Bob Dylan does deserve it, but I would much rather see it go to a novelist.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 20:12 GMT 

Joined: Mon September 26th, 2011, 16:04 GMT
Posts: 44
Dylan deserves the Nobel much more than all the late winners.
Especially Vargas , who is a mediocre writer, and the Swedish poet who won it last year ,who was read by maybe 10 literature scholars in Sweden.
And to matulah- the best book to get started with Saramago is only one and that is Blindness.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:28 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
sshaham wrote:
the Swedish poet who won it last year ,who was read by maybe 10 literature scholars in Sweden.




Tomas Transtromer is one of the rare ones they got right. The Nobel Prize in Literature famously overlooked the greatest writers of the 20th Century: James Joyce, Vladimir Nabokov, Jorge Luis Borges, Franz Kafka, Marcel Proust


It would be unusual for the prize to go to another poet this year but that may happen with Syrian poet Adonis, who was overlooked during the Arab Spring and whose home country is being destroyed in a vicious civil war. It's time (according to the Academy calendar) to give the award to someone from the middle east or Asia. The Swedish Academy claims that politics is never a consideration but they lie. Obama was said to be embarrassed by his selection for the Peace Prize in 2009, a politically motivated choice.


The Swedish Academy is hostile toward Americans - they've passed over many great American writers including Philip Roth, Cormac McCarthy, Pychon. A member of the Literature Prize committee made public comments insulting American writers a few years ago. Really hard to imagine they'd choose Bob Dylan.




The betting on the prize is no indicator but right now it has Dylan placed at 2. This is weird and worth noting if only for fun:



Ladbrokes betting, Saturday, September 15, Awards/2012 Nobel Prize in Literature




Haruki Murakami odds 7/1

Bob Dylan 10/1

Mo Yan 12/1

Cees Nooteboom 12/1

Ismail Kadare 14/1

Adonis 14/1

Ko Un 14/1

Dacia Maraini 16/1

Philip Roth 16/1

Cormac McCarthy 16/1

Amos Oz 16/1

Tom Stoppard 16/1

Alice Munro 20/1

Thomas Pynchon 20/1


The betting is not a list of nominees, it's just any writer than people place bets on. The betting list is much longer than this and can be seen at the Ladbrokes site.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:32 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun February 13th, 2011, 14:34 GMT
Posts: 914
sshaham wrote:
Dylan deserves the Nobel much more than all the late winners.
Especially Vargas , who is a mediocre writer, and the Swedish poet who won it last year ,who was read by maybe 10 literature scholars in Sweden.
And to matulah- the best book to get started with Saramago is only one and that is Blindness.


Thanks for the tip! Will have to read both that one and "All The Names", then. Is the Jesus book good, too?

Tranströmer really isn't that obscure. Even before the price, he was probably the most well known and admired contemporary poet in Scandinavia. I even think some of his poems were printed in public school text books in Norway. I'm not saying that that is the same as global, widespread appeal, but it still counts for something. Anyway, his poetry is really good, and I certainly think he deserved it. But they really have to start giving it to African and Asian authors on a more regular basis.

I haven't read Vargas, so I don't know about him, but I think most of the last years' winners really have deserved it, especially Kertész, Pamuk, Pinter and Lessing. If they are to start expanding their scope of what passes as literature, I actually think they should start including children's fiction before they start with song lyrics. Good fiction for children is important.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:36 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
matulah wrote:
sshaham wrote:
Dylan deserves the Nobel much more than all the late winners.
Especially Vargas , who is a mediocre writer, and the Swedish poet who won it last year ,who was read by maybe 10 literature scholars in Sweden.
And to matulah- the best book to get started with Saramago is only one and that is Blindness.


Thanks for the tip! Will have to read both that one and "All The Names", then. Is the Jesus book good, too?

Tranströmer really isn't that obscure. Even before the price, he was probably the most well known and admired contemporary poet in Scandinavia. I even think some of his poems were printed in public school text books in Norway. I'm not saying that that is the same as global, widespread appeal, but it still counts for something. Anyway, his poetry is really good, and I certainly think he deserved it. But they really have to start giving it to African and Asian authors on a more regular basis.

I haven't read Vargas, so I don't know about him, but I think most of the last years' winners really have deserved it, especially Kertész, Pamuk, Pinter and Lessing. If they are to start expanding their scope of what passes as literature, I actually think they should start including children's fiction before they start with song lyrics. Good fiction for children is important.



Transtromer was well known in the U.S. to people who read a lot of poetry.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:41 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed June 6th, 2007, 15:58 GMT
Posts: 11463
Location: in the land where dreams are made....
the_revelator wrote:
The betting on the prize is no indicator but right now it has Dylan placed at 2. This is weird and worth noting if only for fun:

Ladbrokes betting, Saturday, September 15, Awards/2012 Nobel Prize in Literature

Haruki Murakami
odds 7/1

Bob Dylan 10/1

The betting is not a list of nominees, it's just any writer than people place bets on. The betting list is much longer than this and can be seen at the Ladbrokes site.

Well, at least the one in front of him writes good books..... but yet another one that writes books that are less connected to reality than Dylan.... :?

(Murakami's best ... or at least the one I like the best so far.... Kafka on the Shore)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:46 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun February 13th, 2011, 14:34 GMT
Posts: 914
the_revelator wrote:
It would be unusual for the prize to go to another poet this year but that may happen with Syrian poet Adonis, who was overlooked during the Arab Spring and whose home country is being destroyed in a vicious civil war. It's time (according to the Academy calendar) to give the award to someone from the middle east or Asia. The Swedish Academy claims that politics is never a consideration but they lie. Obama was said to be embarrassed by his selection for the Peace Prize in 2009, a politically motivated choice.


I agree with what you're saying here, but please note that the Peace Prize is awarded by the Norwegian Nobel Committee, totally independent of the Swedish Academy. Members of this Committee are professional politicians, and their positions are awarded by the Norwegian Parliament. So while they both have political claims, the Peace Price is a fundamentally political institution in a way that the Price for Literature is not.

I've seldom had a look at the betting for the price. Are these exceptionally low odds for Dylan, or is this were he normally is at?

Cool to hear that Tranströmer is read in the US too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 21:50 GMT 
Titanium Member

Joined: Wed April 27th, 2011, 03:44 GMT
Posts: 7568
Location: the home for teenage dirt
matulah wrote:
the_revelator wrote:
It would be unusual for the prize to go to another poet this year but that may happen with Syrian poet Adonis, who was overlooked during the Arab Spring and whose home country is being destroyed in a vicious civil war. It's time (according to the Academy calendar) to give the award to someone from the middle east or Asia. The Swedish Academy claims that politics is never a consideration but they lie. Obama was said to be embarrassed by his selection for the Peace Prize in 2009, a politically motivated choice.


I agree with what you're saying here, but please note that the Peace Prize is awarded by the Norwegian Nobel Committee, totally independent of the Swedish Academy. Members of this Committee are professional politicians, and their positions are awarded by the Norwegian Parliament. So while they both have political claims, the Peace Price is a fundamentally political institution in a way that the Price for Literature is not.

I've seldom had a look at the betting for the price. Are these exceptionally low odds for Dylan, or is this were he normally is at?


I think last year betting on Dylan never got above 66/1 or maybe even 100/1. I don't have a clue about why folks are betting on him this year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 22:01 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun February 13th, 2011, 14:34 GMT
Posts: 914
Maybe it's some kind of "Tempest" effect.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 22:06 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu December 1st, 2011, 22:54 GMT
Posts: 369
Location: Pacific Northwest
Last year, in the very last minute, Dylan inexplicably shot up (down?) to 5/1, making him the favorite for the prize.

That might explain why he's in such a high spot this year as well, on top of the Tempest success.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat September 15th, 2012, 23:03 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu September 8th, 2011, 17:44 GMT
Posts: 151
I hope Dylan will get his Nobel Prize in 10-15 years... after writing more brilliant works... and with reasons mentioning intertextuality-incorporation-appropriation from literature of all times... :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 15:01 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue April 13th, 2010, 07:58 GMT
Posts: 2680
Location: back in the rain
Next Thursday the nobel prize winner for literature 2012 will be announced.
Many people her on ER seem to be convinced that he deserves the prize (39% so far).
Would be nice to have some more votes though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 15:24 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
Posts: 808
should he get it over the other nominees?....well who can name the others without looking them up?....seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 15:25 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sat February 5th, 2011, 18:49 GMT
Posts: 2843
he'll get one after he's gone; book it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 16:06 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu July 10th, 2008, 15:11 GMT
Posts: 11569
Location: brighton uk
can one have an each way bet on this?

Do they have doping tests like in proper races?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 17:08 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
Posts: 808
Johanna Parker wrote:
In the best of worlds, one would make a calculated effort to be the best one can, regardless of any prizes it might bring. But as I said, if he really wants it very much, he can try - maybe he will try. Do you think he tried for the Oscar?

I don't think he will care much for the money, I'm not sure he will care for the medal, I'm quite sure he will escape the ceremony as soon as he can, but otherwise it will be great. :wink:


how in the world would one 'try' to win a nobel prize? a calculated effort? what does that mean? we are talking about a life's body of work, which, by the way, is in competition with others? One of the more incredible statements I have seen here.
Call me crazy, but I think that all the poets and authors who have won were doing no more than trying to write as well as they could for each of their books/poems/essays etc. Have you read any of his comments on just the fact he was nominated? Re: whether he belongs...

Try to win a Nobel Prize?....okay, whatever you say.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 17:13 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed January 9th, 2008, 13:29 GMT
Posts: 10368
oldfan wrote:
should he get it over the other nominees?....well who can name the others without looking them up?....seriously



Can you mr. fan??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 17:15 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue April 13th, 2010, 07:58 GMT
Posts: 2680
Location: back in the rain
slimtimslide wrote:
Do they have doping tests like in proper races?


Oh yes, doping might be a problem. Someone from the prize comittee might be doped with "Tempest" :(
:P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 17:21 GMT 
Mercury Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed January 9th, 2008, 13:29 GMT
Posts: 10368
Well I'm going to assume that being a yearly prize, that the honor would be based on your previous year's literary output which, if I'm not mistaken, for Dylan would be limited to the lyrics for the Tempest album(if lyrics are even considered literary). Without even seeing the list of other nominees I'm gonna say no.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 17:56 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12th, 2011, 19:16 GMT
Posts: 1343
oldfan wrote:
should he get it over the other nominees?....well who can name the others without looking them up?....seriously


yay but that´s it... they´ve given the prize to lesser known, rather random writers for quite a few years now (i mean, lesser known to the average audience). this could speak against BD, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 18:03 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12th, 2011, 19:16 GMT
Posts: 1343
jimb727 wrote:
Well I'm going to assume that being a yearly prize, that the honor would be based on your previous year's literary output which, if I'm not mistaken, for Dylan would be limited to the lyrics for the Tempest album(if lyrics are even considered literary). Without even seeing the list of other nominees I'm gonna say no.


i may be wrong, but i remember the prize, though given out yearly, does not refer to the writers´previous year´s literary output but rather to their lifetime achievement. i think it takes much effort to build up the reputation and literary acknowledgement to be considered for this honor, and that this is a longer process. reading the citations suggests the prize mostly refers to their oeuvre in general (it´s quite interesting to read, too):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_No ... Literature


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 6th, 2012, 18:21 GMT 

Joined: Sun May 18th, 2008, 18:26 GMT
Posts: 808
jimb727 wrote:
oldfan wrote:
should he get it over the other nominees?....well who can name the others without looking them up?....seriously



Can you mr. fan??

absolutely not...no way could i name or know if i am familiar with their works...how can anyone have an informed opinion without being informed to what i just mentioned?...seems silly


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon October 8th, 2012, 10:47 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 15th, 2011, 02:23 GMT
Posts: 21428
jimb727 wrote:
oldfan wrote:
should he get it over the other nominees?....well who can name the others without looking them up?....seriously



Can you mr. fan??

oldfan wrote:
absolutely not...no way could i name or know if i am familiar with their works...how can anyone have an informed opinion without being informed to what i just mentioned?...seems silly

You got a point there.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group