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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 19:38 GMT 
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That fiddle reference made me think of Nero, the Roman Emperor who legend says, played the fiddle as Rome burned.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 19:52 GMT 
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Benny, when you say narrators, do you mean the Dylan experts?? The people and writers who know exactly what Bob means when he writes a song or says anything??? I know I am not among those so I do find that lyric rather unpalatable myself, but then again I am not an expert. :roll: Nothing is clear to me anymore so don't worry if you are suffering from that malady also and I would like a thread like you mentioned! :wink: Love, Joanna XOXO


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:11 GMT 
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J0hanna4Ever wrote:
Benny, when you say narrators, do you mean the Dylan experts?? The people and writers who know exactly what Bob means when he writes a song or says anything??? I know I am not among those so I do find that lyric rather unpalatable myself, but then again I am not an expert. :roll: Nothing is clear to me anymore so don't worry if you are suffering from that malady also and I would like a thread like you mentioned! :wink: Love, Joanna XOXO


No - the narrator is the character doing the singing in the song when the first person 'I' is used or implied....


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:23 GMT 

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Bennyboy is right, it's a horrible line. It doesn't imediately spring to mind, but isn't there a similar line in Thinder On The Mountain (another weedy lazy blues number undeserving of the praise heaped upon it)? I'm too lazy to look it up... the thought just occurred then vanished.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:37 GMT 
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Johanna Parker wrote:
SirDogg wrote:
Ding dong daddy?!


Check this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S99Fokasa2Y


Or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLt7FCRxyY8


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:40 GMT 
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Location: Down by the banks of the Royal Canal.
If you see me comin' and you're standing there
wave your handkerchief in the air


I can just see all the hags and bitches waving their colorful rags in the air at upcoming concerts.. it's going to be the newest thing after waving lighters. :)
The narrative reminds me of that film with Al Pacino, where he's playing the Devil..."The Devil's Advocate". He's playing just that kind of guy. :)
Listen to this, f.i.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk


Last edited by Ursie Green Pastures on Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:43 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:41 GMT 
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Jonnie Falafel wrote:
Guessing the smiley face indicates irony? I'd be shocked if Dylan did any more than consult a few old notebooks for this and cobble together a few verses. Writing about violence and masculinity, gang culture and organised crime can be done artfully, with wit and serious intent e.g. Morrissey, Joni Mitchell & Cohen. This just comes across as horny old geezer. Cosmo Smallpiece for the noughties.



:D
morrisey mitchell and cohen, public accountants. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:42 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
"I aint afraid to make love to a bitch or a hag"

Thats some line eh?

I find it rather unpalatable myself. How does it strike you?


Sounds pretty grim to me but I would be surprised if he means it.

In a lot of blues songs, the narrator is putting on a front (and rap I suppose, although rap is not a genre that I like). Your more general point about the violence in his recent lyrics is an important one, but I think it is all part of an act.

To quote a Leonard Cohen song (Closing time): "my very sweet companion gets me fumbling, gets me laughing; she's 100, but she's wearing something tight" - that's pretty grim too.

Blues: I live in a shack; my woman left me; all I have is this bottle ...
Rap: I'm going to kill you; I have lots of bit*hes; you're a p*ssy.

All about making an impression.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:46 GMT 
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Quote:
Sounds pretty grim to me but I would be surprised if he means it.

In a lot of blues songs, the narrator is putting on a front (and rap I suppose, although rap is not a genre that I like). Your more general point about the violence in his recent lyrics is an important one, but I think it is all part of an act.

To quote a Leonard Cohen song (Closing time): "my very sweet companion gets me fumbling, gets me laughing; she's 100, but she's wearing something tight" - that's pretty grim too.

Blues: I live in a shack; my woman left me; all I have is this bottle ...
Rap: I'm going to kill you; I have lots of bit*hes; you're a p*ssy.




i shot a man in reno just to watch him die. thats country. :wink:
bob is the gangster of love. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:49 GMT 
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Jonnie Falafel wrote:
Guessing the smiley face indicates irony? I'd be shocked if Dylan did any more than consult a few old notebooks for this and cobble together a few verses. Writing about violence and masculinity, gang culture and organised crime can be done artfully, with wit and serious intent e.g. Morrissey, Joni Mitchell & Cohen. This just comes across as horny old geezer. Cosmo Smallpiece for the noughties.

What Mitchell song?


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:51 GMT 
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Comparing 'Fulsom Prison Blues' with 'Early Roman Kings'?

Mate, you're flying so far below the radar of mental it's untrue.


Last edited by Bennyboy on Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:53 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:52 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
I'd like to start a discussion elsehwere at another time about the increasing violence of Dylan's narrators and the implications of that.


"This world is ruled by violence,
But I guess that's better left unsaid."


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:54 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
Comparing 'Fulsom Prison Blues' with 'Early Roman Kings'?

Mate, you're flying so far below the radar of mental it's untrue.

No, he's just pointing to a tradition that's always existed in American song.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:55 GMT 
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joni mitchell leonard cohen and morrisey, masters of gangsta rock to put you to sleep a new category. :D


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 20:59 GMT 
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Giada wrote:
Bennyboy wrote:
Comparing 'Fulsom Prison Blues' with 'Early Roman Kings'?

Mate, you're flying so far below the radar of mental it's untrue.

No, he's just pointing to a tradition that's always existed in American song.



he probably thinks edith and the kingpin is the comparison. :|
i think hes admitted to being lackadasical when it comes to musicology so hes not to blame. :shock:
as its obvious that Folsom Prison Blues and Early Roman Kings are blood cousins. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:00 GMT 

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The word y'all are looking for is bravado. I think gerardv had it right, and I think it's clear it was not an accident or arbitrary choice that he set this to the tune of I'M A MAN/MANNISH BOY.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:05 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
The word y'all are looking for is bravado. I think gerardv had it right, and I think it's clear it was not an accident or arbitrary choice that he set this to the tune of I'M A MAN/MANNISH BOY.


Bravado or, with the accordions, machismo. No?


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:06 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
The word y'all are looking for is bravado. I think gerardv had it right, and I think it's clear it was not an accident or arbitrary choice that he set this to the tune of I'M A MAN/MANNISH BOY.


correct, it would have been accident if it would have been set to the tune of 'the more you reject me the closer i get.'(sp) :wink:

love accordions with angel hair pasta. :D


Last edited by goombay on Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:08 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:07 GMT 
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Jonnie Falafel wrote:
Bennyboy is right, it's a horrible line. It doesn't imediately spring to mind, but isn't there a similar line in Thinder On The Mountain (another weedy lazy blues number undeserving of the praise heaped upon it)? I'm too lazy to look it up... the thought just occurred then vanished.


youre probably thininking of "some lazy slut has charmed away my brains"


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:08 GMT 
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The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
The word y'all are looking for is bravado. I think gerardv had it right, and I think it's clear it was not an accident or arbitrary choice that he set this to the tune of I'M A MAN/MANNISH BOY.


Bravado - yes, spot on.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:10 GMT 

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Anything But A Roll wrote:
That fiddle reference made me think of Nero, the Roman Emperor who legend says, played the fiddle as Rome burned.


With the earlier reference to the House of Death, I thought of Orpheus, who played the lyre to open the gates to Hades. The lyre and fiddle are sometimes used interchangeably, like in the story about Nero, who would have played the lyre.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:23 GMT 
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Bennyboy wrote:
J0hanna4Ever wrote:
Benny, when you say narrators, do you mean the Dylan experts?? The people and writers who know exactly what Bob means when he writes a song or says anything??? I know I am not among those so I do find that lyric rather unpalatable myself, but then again I am not an expert. :roll: Nothing is clear to me anymore so don't worry if you are suffering from that malady also and I would like a thread like you mentioned! :wink: Love, Joanna XOXO


No - the narrator is the character doing the singing in the song when the first person 'I' is used or implied....


Thank you; I am getting really confused these days!!! :lol: I don't know who is who or what is what anymore and of course, I know what a narrator is! Love, Joanna XOXO


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:29 GMT 
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Benny raises a fair point. I too find the line off-colour, particularly because it strikes me as so uncharacteristic. The song, despite featuring some exquisite turns of phrase, also contains the sort of virile bravado you would expect from a hip-hop track, not from Dylan. Let's hope it's a one-off.


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:30 GMT 
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Bob's been accused of misogyny since the beginning, though it reached a peak in the 80's.

"A woman like you should be at home, that's where you belong."
(Bitch)


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PostPosted: Wed August 8th, 2012, 21:43 GMT 

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movin_after_midnight wrote:
The Mighty Monkey Of Mim wrote:
The word y'all are looking for is bravado. I think gerardv had it right, and I think it's clear it was not an accident or arbitrary choice that he set this to the tune of I'M A MAN/MANNISH BOY.


Bravado or, with the accordions, machismo. No?

Si.


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