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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 14:30 GMT 
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I have long been drawn towards the symbolism that runs through the core, the very heart of the Love and Theft album... some of the symbolism is blatantly overt in nature... per se... strident, in your face, confrontational symbolism... however, much of the symbolism within the album is very well hidden, disguised and buried deep within the symbolic lyrics, laying virtually invisible, indetectable, almost as if it wasn't there.

Why did Bob write an album that carried both overt and covert symbolistic lyrics?... as, in doing so, I feel that he created a album that was almost paradoxical in it's symbolism and message... and I would be interested in your thoughts on this fascinating bi-symbol album.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 14:37 GMT 
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I'm not sure, but it's very fascinating.

In fact, I just wrote a short screenplay for a story on the subject and it's based around 9/11.

I'll be sure to post it here when it's completed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 14:43 GMT 
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thickboy wrote:
much of the symbolism within the album is very well hidden, disguised and buried deep within the symbolic lyrics, laying virtually invisible, indetectable, almost as if it wasn't there.


Master Thickboy:

I do believe you just described almost every single album Dylan's released.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 15:10 GMT 
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I think you are on to something with you symbolistical studies, thickboy. I feel you are delving through to the beating heart of the paradoxical nature of Love & Theft's symbolically bi-symbolicalness, the essential essence, in a sense, of Dylan's symbolism.

But remember, as the Bible tells us - "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am
become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 15:11 GMT 

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Most of the confrontational stuff in Love and Theft wasn't written by Bob but taken from Dr. Saga.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 15:15 GMT 
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i've often thought the Moonlight referred to in "Moonlight" refers to headlamps - and they're really trolling around for night time Toads....


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 15:28 GMT 
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The performance of Moonlight on Love and Theft has, over time, worked its way into becoming one of my all time favourites among Dylan's songs - sometimes I detect and enjoy the sinister undercurrents, sometimes it seems playful and benign. Why it has never featured on the soundtrack of True Blood or some other vampire themed entertainment remains a mystery to me.

Maria Mulduar's breezy version is very nice too.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 15:38 GMT 
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charlesdarwin wrote:
Why it has never featured on the soundtrack of True Blood or some other vampire themed entertainment remains a mystery to me.

"True Blood" did use "Beyond Here Lies Nothin'" though. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 16th, 2012, 23:18 GMT 
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jberco wrote:
Most of the confrontational stuff in Love and Theft wasn't written by Bob but taken from Dr. Saga.


What do you mean by "confrontational stuff"?

The lines that have been appropriated from Saga (and these are not even verbatim) amount to 319 words out of the 4377 words Bob sings across the album.

Doesn't amount to "most" of anything.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17th, 2012, 05:09 GMT 
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thickboy wrote:
I have long been drawn towards the symbolism that runs through the core, the very heart of the Love and Theft album... some of the symbolism is blatantly overt in nature... per se... strident, in your face, confrontational symbolism... however, much of the symbolism within the album is very well hidden, disguised and buried deep within the symbolic lyrics, laying virtually invisible, indetectable, almost as if it wasn't there.

Why did Bob write an album that carried both overt and covert symbolistic lyrics?... as, in doing so, I feel that he created a album that was almost paradoxical in it's symbolism and message... and I would be interested in your thoughts on this fascinating bi-symbol album.


Are you saying, as I think you are, that Dylan is coming out (or not overtly coming out, inferring, and then even more covertly, barely inferring) -- that he's a bi-sexual? Like surreptitiously stealing love? Like John Travolta?

Was this on Lepidus' Examiner page?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17th, 2012, 09:05 GMT 
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I wanna hear about all these cymbals:

Image


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PostPosted: Wed January 31st, 2018, 08:13 GMT 
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The thing is...all the thefts didn't just make good lines, they made an authorial voice which sounded nothing like those of the past but could clearly have come from no place else. Within this context, something of the authentic Bob Dylan was given free reign to speak. It's a marvelous achievement, really.


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PostPosted: Thu February 1st, 2018, 03:20 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
The thing is...all the thefts didn't just make good lines, they made an authorial voice which sounded nothing like those of the past but could clearly have come from no place else. Within this context, something of the authentic Bob Dylan was given free reign to speak. It's a marvelous achievement, really.

His many voices have always been due to an aspect of theft too.


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PostPosted: Sat February 10th, 2018, 17:43 GMT 

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Trustin' their fate to the hands of Bob


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PostPosted: Mon February 12th, 2018, 15:27 GMT 

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thickboy wrote:
I have long been drawn towards the symbolism that runs through the core, the very heart of the Love and Theft album... some of the symbolism is blatantly overt in nature... per se... strident, in your face, confrontational symbolism... however, much of the symbolism within the album is very well hidden, disguised and buried deep within the symbolic lyrics, laying virtually invisible, indetectable, almost as if it wasn't there.

Why did Bob write an album that carried both overt and covert symbolistic lyrics?... as, in doing so, I feel that he created a album that was almost paradoxical in it's symbolism and message... and I would be interested in your thoughts on this fascinating bi-symbol album.


it would be nice to have a little background/examples so people would know what you are talking about


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 03:01 GMT 
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NE-1 wrote:
thickboy wrote:
I have long been drawn towards the symbolism that runs through the core, the very heart of the Love and Theft album... some of the symbolism is blatantly overt in nature... per se... strident, in your face, confrontational symbolism... however, much of the symbolism within the album is very well hidden, disguised and buried deep within the symbolic lyrics, laying virtually invisible, indetectable, almost as if it wasn't there.

Why did Bob write an album that carried both overt and covert symbolistic lyrics?... as, in doing so, I feel that he created a album that was almost paradoxical in it's symbolism and message... and I would be interested in your thoughts on this fascinating bi-symbol album.


it would be nice to have a little background/examples so people would know what you are talking about

9/11 was an inside job


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 10:39 GMT 
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Curiously, "Love and Theft" was released almost exactly ten years after the release of "Under the Red Sky".
The date of realese of the album plus 1:
1990 + 1 = 1991
Sept. 10 + 1 day = 11 sept.

But also, from 1990 to 2001 are 11 years, and still it was released on the 9th month of the year.
The 9 from 11 years before.

And it's not hard to relate the title of the album to the 9/11.

A red sky.....Towers falling, people falling, planes crashing.


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 18:43 GMT 

Joined: Fri December 9th, 2005, 20:47 GMT
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Confessions of a Yakuza - - - - - no more needs to be said. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 18:49 GMT 

Joined: Fri December 9th, 2005, 20:47 GMT
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FolkieEmo wrote:
Curiously, "Love and Theft" was released almost exactly ten years after the release of "Under the Red Sky".
The date of realese of the album plus 1:
1990 + 1 = 1991
Sept. 10 + 1 day = 11 sept.

But also, from 1990 to 2001 are 11 years, and still it was released on the 9th month of the year.
The 9 from 11 years before.

And it's not hard to relate the title of the album to the 9/11.

A red sky.....Towers falling, people falling, planes crashing.


You are reaching for the sky......hahahaha. Nothing but a mere coincidence. Do you really think there is some kind of correlation? Of course not....that would just be downright ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 20:07 GMT 
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rtocchet wrote:
Confessions of a Yakuza - - - - - no more needs to be said. :roll:



You seem very sure of that, so I assume you can spout the lines taken from that book without googling them first?

Your response smacks of someone who read a blog once that made reference to the use of lines from that book - and yes they do exist - but hasn't made the effort to follow through on that information. If you really think 'no more needs to be said' then I assume you think one may as well forget the album altogether and just read the book?

Sometimes trying to look clever backfires. How about demonstrating how the relevant lines interweave with the other sources - including apparently original material - to produce a whole new context? Or would that require some work, rather than a smart ass remark?


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 20:29 GMT 
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rtocchet wrote:
FolkieEmo wrote:
Curiously, "Love and Theft" was released almost exactly ten years after the release of "Under the Red Sky".
The date of realese of the album plus 1:
1990 + 1 = 1991
Sept. 10 + 1 day = 11 sept.

But also, from 1990 to 2001 are 11 years, and still it was released on the 9th month of the year.
The 9 from 11 years before.

And it's not hard to relate the title of the album to the 9/11.

A red sky.....Towers falling, people falling, planes crashing.


You are reaching for the sky......hahahaha. Nothing but a mere coincidence. Do you really think there is some kind of correlation? Of course not....that would just be downright ridiculous.


Of course no! That's why I said it's just a curiosity.


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PostPosted: Tue February 13th, 2018, 22:55 GMT 
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Good job mate! I love these kind of curiosities/number games.


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PostPosted: Thu February 15th, 2018, 14:36 GMT 

Joined: Fri December 9th, 2005, 20:47 GMT
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slimtimslide wrote:
rtocchet wrote:
Confessions of a Yakuza - - - - - no more needs to be said. :roll:



You seem very sure of that, so I assume you can spout the lines taken from that book without googling them first?

Your response smacks of someone who read a blog once that made reference to the use of lines from that book - and yes they do exist - but hasn't made the effort to follow through on that information. If you really think 'no more needs to be said' then I assume you think one may as well forget the album altogether and just read the book?

Sometimes trying to look clever backfires. How about demonstrating how the relevant lines interweave with the other sources - including apparently original material - to produce a whole new context? Or would that require some work, rather than a smart ass remark?


Whoa.....relax there slimjim. It's common knowledge that Dylan "borrows" a LOT from other sources. Do you think he wrote Girl from the North Country? Hmmmm....I bet you do. It's ok....I believe he is an amazing songwriter when he wants to be. I think Townes Van Zandt was better....but push comes shove Dylan is still my favorite all-time artist. So settle down......


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PostPosted: Thu February 15th, 2018, 15:29 GMT 
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FolkieEmo wrote:
Curiously, "Love and Theft" was released almost exactly ten years after the release of "Under the Red Sky".
The date of realese of the album plus 1:
1990 + 1 = 1991
Sept. 10 + 1 day = 11 sept.

But also, from 1990 to 2001 are 11 years, and still it was released on the 9th month of the year.
The 9 from 11 years before.

And it's not hard to relate the title of the album to the 9/11.

A red sky.....Towers falling, people falling, planes crashing.


Of course, it's Da Dylan Code!


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PostPosted: Thu February 15th, 2018, 21:16 GMT 
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Love and Theft was, and remains the spookiest and most mind-chilling of Bob Dylans records. Full of imperial empires to be created and peace and harmony. Are the two incompatible? Maybe, but not for Jesus or Bob Dylan. Is God an emperor? You'd better believe it. Does He know the right time to strike? You bet.


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