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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2012, 18:15 GMT 
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Well stated Albert!


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PostPosted: Fri January 20th, 2012, 22:29 GMT 
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I was surprised to find Together Through Life on a jukebox in a pub, and the barman skipped one of the songs I put on; I don't think he liked the phlegm either... But when there are songs as great as "I Feel A Change Comin' On" on the album, and an artist as gifted as Bob Dylan, I can put up with it. I think harmonicaalberts comments are very eloquently put nonetheless.

Sorry to be off (the original) topic, but I thought I should post something somewhere rather than just reading.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 05:14 GMT 
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siamesecat wrote:
I was surprised to find Together Through Life on a jukebox in a pub, and the barman skipped one of the songs I put on; I don't think he liked the phlegm either... But when there are songs as great as "I Feel A Change Comin' On" on the album, and an artist as gifted as Bob Dylan, I can put up with it. I think harmonicaalberts comments are very eloquently put nonetheless.

Sorry to be off (the original) topic, but I thought I should post something somewhere rather than just reading.



have you listened to his myspace stuff? geez louizze. if i was responsible for that stuff i would think twice about dissing bob or anyone else for that matter.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 06:58 GMT 

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never stopped me from enjoying bobs music.

And i tend(actually i always) do like his songs better than any of the other songs he so called "Stole."


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 12:20 GMT 
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Harmonica Albert , i wish i could explain why i think Modern Times is a fantastic album and Together Through Life is also very cool .
Unfortunately my English isn't good enough to discuss when it comes to analysing Dylan's music . The only reason i keep posting here is that ER is the only place where i can talk about Dylan , as no one close to me is a Dylan fan . Maybe i should just stick to reading , but posting my thoughts on Bob's music gives me great pleasure , even if they are poorly expressed.
I should try to explain why i think his new albums are original and innovating...
I'll just say that Bob steals like an artist. Not only does he not try to hide his thefts , but sometimes i feel like he's doesn't care it he gets caught by his fans and followers .
Don't you find it strange that he doesn't only take the melody or the structure of a song , but also the guitar parts , the solos , or even some lyrics?

I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2-JHOiN ... re=related

if he wanted to , he could easily change it a bit so that no one would recognize it . But he doesn't care about that . Nothing is new under the sun anyway . He takes old songs , old memories and he rewrites them . Only the result is a new song . That i cannot explain , but Tweedle dum and Uncle John's Bongos are two different , original songs.
And , if you think about it , that's what popular music is all about .
No one writes like Mozart , they just take their guitar and play a bit until something sounds good , mostly by rearranging music they have heard before .
And one can see that when he listens to old traditional songs . They are hundreds of songs based on the same melody . If that 's stealing , then stealing is what art is all about .

Modern Times is an original Dylan album , and a great one too . They say that it doesn't bring something new , but that doesn't matter to me .
There's nothing that's really new anyway .

Of course you may not like it . That's a different matter and i don't think discussion could change that . To my ears , his new albums are poetry . And the main reason for that would be his voice .
He does have the blood of the land in his voice :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 13:51 GMT 
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Although I agree in principle that artists always have connections to other artists, I think that Dylan leans so heavily on other, better songs and writers on Modern Times that he undermines his own authority as a creative artist. However, if the results were interesting and the borrowing not so blatant and constant and the skills employed not so feeble, his methods still might yield credible music. They aren't, and they don't. I think it's more accurate to say he has the phlegm of decades of smoking in his voice, but if some interpret that as the blood of the land, and they can support such a claim with some kind of evidence, that would be interesting.

But your English is just fine, and you should feel no need to defend your views with me, especially because we are generally discussing influences in Together Through Life. Just follow your own feeling of necessity and like the music that brings you closer to understanding what that is. And thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts here. You might just change my mind. Stranger things have happened in this world.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 14:28 GMT 
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Quote:
harmonica albert wrote:
Although I agree in principle that artists always have connections to other artists, I think that Dylan leans so heavily on other, better songs and writers on Modern Times that he undermines his own authority as a creative artist. However, if the results were interesting and the borrowing not so blatant and constant and the skills employed not so feeble, his methods still might yield credible music. They aren't, and they don't. I think it's more accurate to say he has the phlegm of decades of smoking in his voice, but if some interpret that as the blood of the land, and they can support such a claim with some kind of evidence, that would be interesting.


un-fing-real. someone has to provide you with some evidence in order that you would be ok with the idea that he has the blood of the land in his voice? what do you want an affidavit? too much.
musicians are a trip,touch a guitar (or banjo) and they are big rock stars(in their mind). anyways you should apply your analytical skills to your own material, it needs it.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 14:32 GMT 
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andrea75 wrote:
Tragos114 wrote:
I should add that these thefts don't bother me at all , i just find them interesting.


I wouldn't even call My Wife's Hometown a "theft", since there's a credit shared.
Another one is Beyond Here Lies Nothing, which is very similar to Otis Rush's All Your Love...
But again, the man loves Chicago Blues...


"Beyond Here Lies Nothin'" is based on an old blues motif that has also been used in the following songs (and probably many more and older tunes as well):
"Lucky Lou" – Jody Williams (under pseudonym Little Joe Lee, 1957)
"Who's Been Talking" – Howlin' Wolf (1957)
"All Your Love (I Miss Loving)" – Otis Rush (1958)
"We're Ready" – Junior Wells (1965)
"Black Magic Woman" – Fleetwood Mac (1968, covered by Santana in 1970)


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 15:40 GMT 
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Quote:
"Beyond Here Lies Nothin'" is based on an old blues motif that has also been used in the following songs (and probably many more and older tunes as well):
"Lucky Lou" – Jody Williams (under pseudonym Little Joe Lee, 1957)
"Who's Been Talking" – Howlin' Wolf (1957)
"All Your Love (I Miss Loving)" – Otis Rush (1958)
"We're Ready" – Junior Wells (1965)
"Black Magic Woman" – Fleetwood Mac (1968, covered by Santana in 1970)


[/quote]

thats what musicians do they take bits they like and put them together with other bits. bob doesnt care he does it like he does simply because thats the way he thinks the song should be.
have you heard the one that the guitar solo from sweet child of mine is from the theme from inspector gadget?


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 18:27 GMT 

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MT and TTL and L&T are all new to me. yeah it sounds like older songs.. that why i dig it. It's a refreshing new song in the 21st century. I wouldn't want bob playing computer sounds and dubbed in noises.

this argument is dumb and just as old as the blues it's self. I can list 50 blues artist that all sing the same thing and play the same riffs with a slide or not. but there are always just a few i prefer listening to.

Bob is better... the end.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 19:10 GMT 
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I was listening to the album today (nothing new there) and remembered my first impression, that on TTL Bob had sort of given up trying to hide that his voice is what it is, decided to just belt it out, come what may, and produce a work as if he were a minor singer in a (latin?) street band. I was taken aback by it at first, but loved the accordian which seemed to be adding extra breath. It captured the zeitgeist so well for me, and says what many wouldn't. And couldn't. Its brimming with great lines. Alas, aside from maybe "Life is Hard", the vocals do always stand out; the ghost of a great singer. Ever seen a ghost? No, but you have heard of them.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 20:06 GMT 

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goombay wrote:
have you listened to his myspace stuff? geez louizze. if i was responsible for that stuff i would think twice about dissing bob or anyone else for that matter.

Why don't you post a link to your "myspace stuff"? I'm sure it's all just fantastic & personally I'd love to hear music created by one who says that another's myspace music page disqualifies him from criticizing Dylan's music.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 21:33 GMT 
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I like Together Through Life. It's good. I have great memories of a lot of the songs live during the '09 fall tour. Top notch tour!


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 21:57 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
goombay wrote:
have you listened to his myspace stuff? geez louizze. if i was responsible for that stuff i would think twice about dissing bob or anyone else for that matter.

Why don't you post a link to your "myspace stuff"? I'm sure it's all just fantastic & personally I'd love to hear music created by one who says that another's myspace music page disqualifies him from criticizing Dylan's music.


cause i aint got none. im not so good i know 2-3 chords and drift in and out of tune. i dont want to disturb mankind with it. im not so out of it to think anything i would do would compare wit Dylan.
if it did i probably be signed to a label bypassing myspace.

You would think someone who seems to be so bitterly negative towards bob for not making what he considers to be good music would be able to make some good music of his own. i dont hear it.
in any event whats good for bob is good for the gander.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 22:35 GMT 
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Quote:
have you listened to his myspace stuff? geez louizze. if i was responsible for that stuff i would think twice about dissing bob or anyone else for that matter.


Quote:
Why don't you post a link to your "myspace stuff"? I'm sure it's all just fantastic & personally I'd love to hear music created by one who says that another's myspace music page disqualifies him from criticizing Dylan's music.


cause i aint got none. im not so good i know 2-3 chords and drift in and out of tune. i dont want to disturb mankind with it. im not so out of it to think anything i would do would compare with Dylan, its not my thing to go on the internet and criticize bob dylan one of the greats for everything he does and then put some of my nonsense up on the web as if had musical merit when compared to bob.
if it did i probably be signed to a label bypassing myspace.

You would think someone who seems to be so bitterly negative towards bob for not making what he considers to be good music would be able to make some good music of his own. i dont hear it.
in any event whats good for bob is good for the gander. for a long as im on the forum im going to stand up for bob, its a dirty job but somebody gotta do it.


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PostPosted: Sat January 21st, 2012, 23:50 GMT 

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OK, I'm not gonna escalate this into something that's gonna make for unpleasant reading for the rest of the posters here. Thanks for not disturbing mankind.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 00:16 GMT 
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P. Pittsburgh Joe wrote:
OK, I'm not gonna escalate this into something that's gonna make for unpleasant reading for the rest of the posters here. Thanks for not disturbing mankind.



no problem, the only one that is disturbed by my music is my wife, and strangely she thinks my songs are better than bobs(stranger still she doesnt know that most of the songs ARE bob songs). she even thinks i sing better that bob.(she doesnt understand why the cat dissapears when i pick up the guitar).

theres is music/artists i dont care for, but i dont take their music as some sort of personal affront. i just dont listen to it or buy it and the last thing i do is go their internet forum to berate those that do. maybe im crazy that way.;

but this guy, he takes the negativity to a new plane, ive never read anything like it.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 00:33 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
Quote:
"Beyond Here Lies Nothin'" is based on an old blues motif that has also been used in the following songs (and probably many more and older tunes as well):
"Lucky Lou" – Jody Williams (under pseudonym Little Joe Lee, 1957)
"Who's Been Talking" – Howlin' Wolf (1957)
"All Your Love (I Miss Loving)" – Otis Rush (1958)
"We're Ready" – Junior Wells (1965)
"Black Magic Woman" – Fleetwood Mac (1968, covered by Santana in 1970)


thats what musicians do they take bits they like and put them together with other bits. bob doesnt care he does it like he does simply because thats the way he thinks the song should be.


Exactly. Btw "Together Through Life" is in my personal Dylan Top 5.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 00:41 GMT 
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thats what musicians do they take bits they like and put them together with other bits. bob doesnt care he does it like he does simply because thats the way he thinks the song should be.

[/quote]

Quote:
Exactly. Btw "Together Through Life" is in my personal Dylan Top 5.



its a good album i l like it myself, its grown on me lately. only iffy song is the Houston song but otherwise its a very interesting album very unique in the bob cannon.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 01:19 GMT 
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Personally I am perversely gladdened, if a little surprised, when one of my favourite posters so easily dismisses something I really enjoy. It just shows there is life in the old dog yet... (I mean Dylan). I don't really rate TTL and ain't listened to it much since it came out without very much fanfare (except here), it's ok but Robert Hunter ain't made many good records since 'rum runners' in my opinion. 'Beyond here lies nothing' is a nice reference to maps at least and I enjoy that.. Modern Life however is another kettle of onions... to compare it to the two previous LPs is unfair, but on it's own I really like it - of course it is derivative but Highway 61 was a pretty straightforward blues too, I find WorkinManBlues*2 and Nettie Moore endlessly lovely and there is a feel to the whole album I just find myself coming back to again and again - a lot of old blues albums were actually not albums at all but collections of unrelated tracks (in fact on reflection that really is the meaning of the word 'album' so I am contradicting myself). I think MT has an overall 'feel' that makes it great, and as cohesive as an 'album' should be, and I play it often as a whole without picking out tracks. When it came out I was underwhelmed but I expected/hoped for a 'classic Dylan album' - what I got was written on the label... and I love it now just for what it is.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 01:28 GMT 
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I love TTL and MT for what they are as well. I just don't put them on much because the tunes are so prevalent in the shows. Once they get put away from the stage limelight I'm sure that I'll warm up to them more so.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 04:25 GMT 
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goombay, my goal in discussing Bob Dylan is to understand first my own experience of the music, and then to understand that of other listeners. If some one makes a claim about the music for good or bad, it seems reasonable to support that claim if you want it to be something more than just subjective opinion. There are many things I don't enjoy about Together Through Life, but on the whole, I don't think it's a bad Dylan album despite its problems. It's about as good as he's going to do at this point. Some people like it a lot, others don't. This is pretty much the standard level of Dylan achievment. He's risen far above that level on occasion, and fallen far below it as well.

I fail to see what relevance your opinion about 3 tracks on my myspace site might have to this discussion, other than to give you an excuse to make some boorish remarks. I'm more than happy to let your words stand as an index of your character. I'm not here to discuss or defend my music. If you can't maintain some semblance of good will and good manners while talking about Bob Dylan, then I pity you, but I'm not interested in you.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 04:33 GMT 
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Quote:
thats what musicians do they take bits they like and put them together with other bits. bob doesnt care he does it like he does simply because thats the way he thinks the song should be.



Quote:
Exactly. Btw "Together Through Life" is in my personal Dylan Top 5.



after reading this i went and put the TTL disc on with the headphones and you had it right on the mark. that is quite the record. the music is perfect not one single note out of place.
and the voice the voice cant be any better, it like he has the blood of the land in his voice,
TTL is all good.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 04:45 GMT 
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harmonica albert wrote:
goombay, my goal in discussing Bob Dylan is to understand first my own experience of the music, and then to understand that of other listeners. If some one makes a claim about the music for good or bad, it seems reasonable to support that claim if you want it to be something more than just subjective opinion. There are many things I don't enjoy about Together Through Life, but on the whole, I don't think it's a bad Dylan album despite its problems. It's about as good as he's going to do at this point. Some people like it a lot, others don't. This is pretty much the standard level of Dylan achievment. He's risen far above that level on occasion, and fallen far below it as well.

I fail to see what relevance your opinion about 3 tracks on my myspace site might have to this discussion, other than to give you an excuse to make some boorish remarks. I'm more than happy to let your words stand as an index of your character. I'm not here to discuss or defend my music. If you can't maintain some semblance of good will and good manners while talking about Bob Dylan, then I pity you, but I'm not interested in you.




im tore up that someone of your musical caliber and obvious upstanding charachter is not interested in me. im like, tore up, may have to chug some of this whiskey instead of smoothy sipping it while indulge in a stogie. no banjo classes for me, i guess. thats life like frank would say.

is it good manners to make these type of comments?:

"Life Is Hard" is just dreadful, betraying Dylan's wooden timing and sentimentality. So sad. It's even worse than the plodding Workingman's Blues #2. People go on about Dylan's "phrasing" when so often his choices in phrasing are just plain ugly and anti-musical.

now thats rude, if i was trying to be rude, not matter how much i tried id be hard pressed to come up with something like the above commentary.

while we ruminate on the matter, i would just like to comment that if you like TTL i would hate to read your post on it had you not liked it.


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PostPosted: Sun January 22nd, 2012, 04:51 GMT 
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goombay wrote:
smoothy sipping it while indulge in a stogie.

what kinda stogis we got goin' tonight? Cuban?


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