Expecting Rain
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How will you purchase Trouble No More?
http://www.expectingrain.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=91894
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Author:  Anr Bjotk [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 10:38 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

FieldingMellish wrote:

Heh. As I began reading your post I initially thouhght, well, I disagree with you but maybe you have a point: approaching the question from the point of view of shedding light, rather than relying on the quality of the music to judge; but by the end you had lost all credibiity, ranking Cutting Edge "towards the bottom" is a prepsterous assertion.

In any case, even if we did accept that the only criterion that counts is shedding light, if there is ight to be shed by Trouble No More then it is yet to be shed, since it's not been released yet; so your assessment is premature and therefore utterly invalid.

Furthermore, it simply isn't true that Cutting Edge sheds no light, there are numreous examples where the process revealed by various versions of a given song is fascinating and highly enjoyable, also leaving us with worthwhile alternative verisons of songs - just the Blonde on Blonde tracks alone, for example, would put up a formidable challenge to any other set's claims of light shedding.


I'll have to side with boiledgutsofbirds here. Nobody is more fanatic about 66 than me, but I haven't bothered listening to Cutting Edge more than twice.
As a historical piece it was midly interesting listening to the alternative - but inferior- takes but it didn't really change anything or give deeper insight.
The best outtakes, which are few, may be limited to Tombstone Blues with the Everly brothers and the Blonde on Blonde outtakes like I Wanna Be Your Lover, which were already circulating, so nothing awe-inspiriring.

As for whether the different takes are worthwhile... I'm not convinced.

I was very excited when Cutting Edge was released, but the excitement quickly faded. It was too academic.

Trouble No More has not yet been released, so we don't know. But we do know the tracks already released are stellar and according to the track list, the rest is compiled in a way that makes it a proper album release, that works both as a historical monument and as a piece of music.

Author:  FieldingMellish [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 12:00 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Anr Bjotk wrote:
FieldingMellish wrote:

Heh. As I began reading your post I initially thouhght, well, I disagree with you but maybe you have a point: approaching the question from the point of view of shedding light, rather than relying on the quality of the music to judge; but by the end you had lost all credibiity, ranking Cutting Edge "towards the bottom" is a prepsterous assertion.

In any case, even if we did accept that the only criterion that counts is shedding light, if there is ight to be shed by Trouble No More then it is yet to be shed, since it's not been released yet; so your assessment is premature and therefore utterly invalid.

Furthermore, it simply isn't true that Cutting Edge sheds no light, there are numreous examples where the process revealed by various versions of a given song is fascinating and highly enjoyable, also leaving us with worthwhile alternative verisons of songs - just the Blonde on Blonde tracks alone, for example, would put up a formidable challenge to any other set's claims of light shedding.


I'll have to side with boiledgutsofbirds here. Nobody is more fanatic about 66 than me, but I haven't bothered listening to Cutting Edge more than twice.
As a historical piece it was midly interesting listening to the alternative - but inferior- takes but it didn't really change anything or give deeper insight.
The best outtakes, which are few, may be limited to Tombstone Blues with the Everly brothers and the Blonde on Blonde outtakes like I Wanna Be Your Lover, which were already circulating, so nothing awe-inspiriring.

As for whether the different takes are worthwhile... I'm not convinced.

I was very excited when Cutting Edge was released, but the excitement quickly faded. It was too academic.

Trouble No More has not yet been released, so we don't know. But we do know the tracks already released are stellar and according to the track list, the rest is compiled in a way that makes it a proper album release, that works both as a historical monument and as a piece of music.


I respectfully, but most strongly, disagree. Cutting Edge was a major release which, by any measurement, counts as one of the most important Bootleg Series instalments.

Author:  Mickvet [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 13:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

FieldingMellish wrote:
Anr Bjotk wrote:

I'll have to side with boiledgutsofbirds here. Nobody is more fanatic about 66 than me, but I haven't bothered listening to Cutting Edge more than twice.
As a historical piece it was midly interesting listening to the alternative - but inferior- takes but it didn't really change anything or give deeper insight.
The best outtakes, which are few, may be limited to Tombstone Blues with the Everly brothers and the Blonde on Blonde outtakes like I Wanna Be Your Lover, which were already circulating, so nothing awe-inspiriring.

As for whether the different takes are worthwhile... I'm not convinced.

I was very excited when Cutting Edge was released, but the excitement quickly faded. It was too academic.

Trouble No More has not yet been released, so we don't know. But we do know the tracks already released are stellar and according to the track list, the rest is compiled in a way that makes it a proper album release, that works both as a historical monument and as a piece of music.


I respectfully, but most strongly, disagree. Cutting Edge was a major release which, by any measurement, counts as one of the most important Bootleg Series instalments.


I agree it's important, but I never listen to it. I know I'll listen a lot to Trouble No More. Therefore, it will represent far better value for me, on a play per euro rate, than Cutting Edge (fortunately, I only bought the Best-of of this).

Author:  boiledgutsofbirds [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 22:59 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

FieldingMellish wrote:
boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
Actually you can and this release is better. This has nothing to do with thinking the gospel era is better than mid sixties Dylan, it's not and I wouldn't suggest otherwise but the Cutting Edge was a fun indulgence that shed little light on that era. We knew Dylan was at his peak during that era because he actually put out the best takes. If you add together the three perfect albums and the releases on Biograph/BS1-3 and 7 then how much did Cutting Edge reveal? That there are some very solid outtakes from that era that are footnotes to but ultimately inferior to the released takes. In terms of 'lost masterpieces' the new takes of She's Your Lover Now were the only real contenders. The BS series don't exist in a vacuum, they have to be judged on how they expand on the official picture and by that criteria I'd rank Cutting Edge towards the bottom.


Heh. As I began reading your post I initially thouhght, well, I disagree with you but maybe you have a point: approaching the question from the point of view of shedding light, rather than relying on the quality of the music to judge; but by the end you had lost all credibiity, ranking Cutting Edge "towards the bottom" is a prepsterous assertion.

In any case, even if we did accept that the only criterion that counts is shedding light, if there is ight to be shed by Trouble No More then it is yet to be shed, since it's not been released yet; so your assessment is premature and therefore utterly invalid.

Furthermore, it simply isn't true that Cutting Edge sheds no light, there are numreous examples where the process revealed by various versions of a given song is fascinating and highly enjoyable, also leaving us with worthwhile alternative verisons of songs - just the Blonde on Blonde tracks alone, for example, would put up a formidable challenge to any other set's claims of light shedding.


Nope that's not shedding light. I knew that Dylan was on fire in 66 and those alternate versions he was... still on fire in 66 yet still released the best versions on the LPs. Like you're getting insight into the process but there's a difference between a 'historical' behind the scenes and a complete reevaluation of the era. Let's have a look at the better BS:

1-3 - Consistently excellent songs that had never seen the light of day - many bettering the official release. A no-brainer.

4 - This is the real cutting edge. The music he was making on this tour was an extension of yet utterly different to the music he was making in the recording studio.

5 - A recording of Bob's greatest live band an a marked improvement over both Desire and Hard Rain.

8 - Better than the official story of these years? Yes or no, provides a completely different side of those albums, showing performances and songwriting that are nowhere to be found on the official release.

10 - Albums ranging from mediocre to flat out bad are revealed to have been a fertile creative period where Bob wasn't necessarily at his songwriting best but arguably giving the finest vocal performances of his career.

11 - It's no secret that the Basement Tapes are great but the official release was a complete hatchet job making this release pretty amazing. Furthermore, there's actually something to be said for the box set edition as there a few repeat performances.

So I'm not saying Cutting Edge is the worst of them all (it beats 6, 7 and 9) but it's not in the top half in my book.

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 23:07 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

This is turning into a great thread with the wrong title!
Cutting Edge is a historical ‘must have’ and certainly interesting until the novelty wears off.
Which apparently it has over here, because there it sits, even though it’s liked.
No real motivation to naturally go back to it as often as others.
Glad it’s there though!

Author:  boiledgutsofbirds [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 23:16 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Still Go Barefoot wrote:
This is turning into a great thread with the wrong title!
Cutting Edge is a historical ‘must have’ and certainly interesting until the novelty wears off.
Which apparently it has over here, because there it sits, even though it’s liked.
No real motivation to naturally go back to it as often as others.
Glad it’s there though!


Yeah, don't get me wrong it's a fun listen but after intermittently listening to it over the past year I started putting on the original LPs again and realized how much of a novel distraction BS12 was. You can't top those.

Author:  John B. Stetson [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 23:46 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

The Bootleg series is amazing and sits right alongside the best of the official releases. Especially those boiledguts highlighted above. Bravo Dylan inc, Jeff Rosen, or whomever is responsible.

The 2 disc version of the gospel bseries looks fantastic and will not only supplement the official releases, but really, replace those as the best representation of 1979-1981. Something not even the great live 1966 could even quite do—as spectacular as that BS release is. I can see people not into this if they are not into the gospel era. But if you are interested even in just the Dylan story, this is gonna be great.

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 23:54 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
Still Go Barefoot wrote:
This is turning into a great thread with the wrong title!
Cutting Edge is a historical ‘must have’ and certainly interesting until the novelty wears off.
Which apparently it has over here, because there it sits, even though it’s liked.
No real motivation to naturally go back to it as often as others.
Glad it’s there though!


Yeah, don't get me wrong it's a fun listen but after intermittently listening to it over the past year I started putting on the original LPs again and realized how much of a novel distraction BS12 was. You can't top those.

Yes. They certainly chose the correct takes for the original releases!

Author:  Still Go Barefoot [ Sun October 22nd, 2017, 23:56 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

John B. Stetson wrote:
...if you are interested even in just the Dylan story, this is gonna be great.

Well stated.

Author:  Anr Bjotk [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 04:58 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

boiledgutsofbirds wrote:

11 - It's no secret that the Basement Tapes are great but the official release was a complete hatchet job making this release pretty amazing. Furthermore, there's actually something to be said for the box set edition as there a few repeat performances.

So I'm not saying Cutting Edge is the worst of them all (it beats 6, 7 and 9) but it's not in the top half in my book.


How was The Basement Tapes/BS11 volume a hatchet job?

Author:  Rimshottbob [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 07:01 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Anr Bjotk wrote:
boiledgutsofbirds wrote:

11 - It's no secret that the Basement Tapes are great but the official release was a complete hatchet job making this release pretty amazing. Furthermore, there's actually something to be said for the box set edition as there a few repeat performances.

So I'm not saying Cutting Edge is the worst of them all (it beats 6, 7 and 9) but it's not in the top half in my book.


How was The Basement Tapes/BS11 volume a hatchet job?



I think he meant the 1975 'official' album of The Basement Tapes was the hatchet job, what with the overdubs and new tracks by the Band, etc... I think 'hatchet' is a bit harsh, as the original album is still a fantastic listen, just not completely representative of the music being made in those basements.

Love the original, love the Bootleg Series edition that covers it.

Author:  jonno_osmond [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 10:04 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Deluxe set plus the San Diego 2 CD set for me, first time I have felt really inclined to go out and spend the money on a deluxe version of one of these releases.

Author:  FieldingMellish [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 16:44 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

boiledgutsofbirds wrote:
Nope that's not shedding light. I knew that Dylan was on fire in 66 and those alternate versions he was... still on fire in 66 yet still released the best versions on the LPs. Like you're getting insight into the process but there's a difference between a 'historical' behind the scenes and a complete reevaluation of the era. Let's have a look at the better BS:

1-3 - Consistently excellent songs that had never seen the light of day - many bettering the official release. A no-brainer.

4 - This is the real cutting edge. The music he was making on this tour was an extension of yet utterly different to the music he was making in the recording studio.

5 - A recording of Bob's greatest live band an a marked improvement over both Desire and Hard Rain.

8 - Better than the official story of these years? Yes or no, provides a completely different side of those albums, showing performances and songwriting that are nowhere to be found on the official release.

10 - Albums ranging from mediocre to flat out bad are revealed to have been a fertile creative period where Bob wasn't necessarily at his songwriting best but arguably giving the finest vocal performances of his career.

11 - It's no secret that the Basement Tapes are great but the official release was a complete hatchet job making this release pretty amazing. Furthermore, there's actually something to be said for the box set edition as there a few repeat performances.

So I'm not saying Cutting Edge is the worst of them all (it beats 6, 7 and 9) but it's not in the top half in my book.


Well, I could reply with a release by release rebuttal, but what's the point? I very strongly reject your central point, your claim that Cutting Edge did not 'shed light', and anyway I don't agree that that's the sole or most important criterion for evaluating a release. And surely there is light to be shed not just in terms of how 'on fire' Dylan was in a given era? Surely an equal if not more imortant light is in revealing the process at work, which Cutting Edge delivers in spades?

You are vastly under-rating Cutting Edge. But that doesn't mean you're wrong to have expectations of Trouble No More. My expectations happen to be quite low, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Author:  gerardv [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 18:47 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

jonno_osmond wrote:
Deluxe set plus the San Diego 2 CD set for me, first time I have felt really inclined to go out and spend the money on a deluxe version of one of these releases.

Yea first time for me too. And I'm going in deluxe for the next one too,
if it's going to be a 1974-1976 affair.

Author:  jman [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 19:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

probably credit card i guess.

Author:  Jerry [ Mon October 23rd, 2017, 21:51 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

2cd. The days of buying $100 plus boxsets are over.

Author:  Dylaned [ Wed October 25th, 2017, 10:47 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

I got the The Cutting Edge deluxe edition and I basically played those discs only once and always found myself listening to the digital version instead. So this time I'll just buy the whole thing in mp3 (or some lossless format, if I can find it). The actual box set would be junk piling up, taking up space. :wink:

Author:  mjmooney [ Wed October 25th, 2017, 13:44 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Dylaned wrote:
I got the The Cutting Edge deluxe edition and I basically played those discs only once and always found myself listening to the digital version instead. So this time I'll just buy the whole thing in mp3 (or some lossless format, if I can find it). The actual box set would be junk piling up, taking up space. :wink:
I'm kinda the opposite. I'm not keen on the gospel era music, and the digital versions would probably only get played once, out of curiosity.

But I do love to see those boxes on the shelf...

Still, not at that price, though.

Author:  Loose Fur [ Wed October 25th, 2017, 19:53 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Yeah, I will buy the 2CD this time, and find the rest of it digitally. I too am done with paying the big bucks for a set that sits there. The price is too high, and the packaging is too abundant IMO.

Author:  Pool Hall Richard [ Wed October 25th, 2017, 20:49 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Loose Fur wrote:
Yeah, I will buy the 2CD this time, and find the rest of it digitally. I too am done with paying the big bucks for a set that sits there. The price is too high, and the packaging is too abundant IMO.


Snap, would love the big set but too expensive. 2cd on the Christmas list from the kids, i'll obtain the MP3 of the rest at a later date. I will admit the Slow Train on Mojo cd and the Every Grain of Sand rehearsal have gotten me more interested but simply can't afford the bigger set.

Author:  belleseb32 [ Wed October 25th, 2017, 23:39 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

smoke wrote:
The digital download is much less expensive, so I'll probably do that, but I feel I need the deluxe version in my life.


I'll be picking up the MP3s of the Deluxe Edition too. I'd really like the package set from bobdylan.com, but effectively $100 extra for a 1979 show and a DVD that I'll like but not often watch is just too much. Plus it'll be nice to have the convenience of Amazon MP3s to stream through my phone at any time - I don't think Triplicate or the Cutting Edge would have gotten nearly as much play in my car without that slick convenience.

It's worth noting I guess that I don't care at all about the packaging or the physical media; I'm fairly representative of my age bracket (millenial) in being interested in the content much more than the format or artifact.

Author:  Nappy [ Thu October 26th, 2017, 01:20 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

Jerry wrote:
2cd. The days of buying $100 plus boxsets are over.


Basically this, but I've been going one step further lately and just listening to albums via Apple Music. Spending a good amount of money on music just doesn't interest me anymore.

I'm completely over Dylan Inc and others doing a 2 CD set and then a crazily priced boxed set. Basically either option makes you feel like you're being duped.

Author:  kwhisperer [ Thu October 26th, 2017, 20:50 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

I bought the deluxe version from importcds.com. And I haven't gotten a refund from the official site, so I am hoping my free+shipping version of the bonus discs arrives as well.

Author:  RichardW [ Fri October 27th, 2017, 13:26 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

I'm hoping the Deluxe version is on Spotify. If not, I might ask for it for Christmas.

As we don't have a CD player anymore that is a fairly silly thing to ask for, but what the heck.

Author:  four-armed phone [ Fri October 27th, 2017, 13:54 GMT ]
Post subject:  Re: How will you purchase Trouble No More?

RichardW wrote:
I'm hoping the Deluxe version is on Spotify. If not, I might ask for it for Christmas.

As we don't have a CD player anymore that is a fairly silly thing to ask for, but what the heck.


The last few Bootleg Series are available on Spotify only on "sampler mode", so I think Trouble No More will suffer the same fate.

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