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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 13:03 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 380
Mickvet wrote:
Try me. Of course, neither of us has offered one another our definition of 'liberal', which should be the starting point. For me, the primary theme of Dylan's pre-1964 folk material was justice. His songs display a strong consciousness of right and wrong and the systemic societal structures that generated injustice. If, by liberalism, one means an ideology based on Marxist dialectics, I disagree that those songs of Dylan's are 'liberal' in that sense. Songs of underdogs and (mostly British) injustice have been commonplace since time immemorial here in Ireland and the notion of liberalism would have been unknown. Not to mention that Dylan was quite influenced in his songwriting style of the time by The Clancys and various Irish rebel tunes.


Um....yeah. By liberal I meant generally left-leaning. There has been a lot of revisionism - some of it by Bob himself - since those heady 60s years, but there is no mistaking the overall socio-political bent of not just the early 'protest' songs but the more complex work that followed. Anyone who denies that is either a contrarian or just doesn't understand. Of course, Dylan was far too clever too allow himself to be pigeon-holed, and he was never the political firebrand some fans wanted him to be: again, he is much too complex for that. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Dylan's work has long displayed a liberal bias.


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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 13:43 GMT 
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FieldingMellish wrote:
Um....yeah. By liberal I meant generally left-leaning. There has been a lot of revisionism - some of it by Bob himself - since those heady 60s years, but there is no mistaking the overall socio-political bent of not just the early 'protest' songs but the more complex work that followed. Anyone who denies that is either a contrarian or just doesn't understand. Of course, Dylan was far too clever too allow himself to be pigeon-holed, and he was never the political firebrand some fans wanted him to be: again, he is much too complex for that. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Dylan's work has long displayed a liberal bias.



One of the best epitomes of his attitude, for what my two cents are worth.

I've saved it into my Dylan scrapbook.
Thanks for this post.


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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 14:13 GMT 
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Joined: Thu August 2nd, 2007, 13:41 GMT
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Location: Lincoln County Road . . . (or Armageddon?)
Giuseppe Gazerro wrote:
FieldingMellish wrote:
Um....yeah. By liberal I meant generally left-leaning. There has been a lot of revisionism - some of it by Bob himself - since those heady 60s years, but there is no mistaking the overall socio-political bent of not just the early 'protest' songs but the more complex work that followed. Anyone who denies that is either a contrarian or just doesn't understand. Of course, Dylan was far too clever too allow himself to be pigeon-holed, and he was never the political firebrand some fans wanted him to be: again, he is much too complex for that. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Dylan's work has long displayed a liberal bias.



One of the best epitomes of his attitude, for what my two cents are worth.

I've saved it into my Dylan scrapbook.
Thanks for this post.


Yes, I agree. It's almost impossible to sum up anything to do with Bob in so few words. This is close. This is good.


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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 14:25 GMT 
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Location: Lincoln County Road . . . (or Armageddon?)
lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
"a liberal education"


People who try to apply this word solely to politics are the same people who try to demonize open-minded, caring people by equating them with with notorious, Communist figures from the past.


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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 16:02 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1889
Location: Ireland
summerteeth wrote:
lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
"a liberal education"


People who try to apply this word solely to politics are the same people who try to demonize open-minded, caring people by equating them with with notorious, Communist figures from the past.


Neither Fielding or myself were the ones who introduced politics into this thread. We were both just responding.

There is a political section on this site, which is more appropriate for these debates, for us all.


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PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 17:13 GMT 
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Location: Lincoln County Road . . . (or Armageddon?)
Mickvet wrote:
summerteeth wrote:
lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
"a liberal education"


People who try to apply this word solely to politics are the same people who try to demonize open-minded, caring people by equating them with with notorious, Communist figures from the past.


Neither Fielding or myself were the ones who introduced politics into this thread. We were both just responding.

There is a political section on this site, which is more appropriate for these debates, for us all.


Agreed. Just seemed like we were headed in that direction.


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PostPosted: Mon October 16th, 2017, 04:50 GMT 

Joined: Tue February 3rd, 2015, 19:05 GMT
Posts: 457
man in the moon wrote:
Giuseppe Gazerro wrote:
That said, it's the umpteenth masterpiece from 70's Dylan.
Were it a new song, I'd rank it his best since Jokerman without any shadow of a doubt.
My Dylan.
I knew it.



Wow. You are hearing something that I'm not hearing. It's an interesting listen but throwaway and far from a masterpiece. Wouldn't trade it for anything off Love and Theft, Modern Times or Tempest.



I was with you until you threw in tempest... this song is better than all of those.


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PostPosted: Thu October 19th, 2017, 01:54 GMT 
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I keep going back to it and can now officially say I love it.
That hasn't happened in a while with this guy, so I'm glad I'd never caught wind of it till now.
Excellent delivery!

I even like the Can't Always Get riffs...


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PostPosted: Thu October 19th, 2017, 11:29 GMT 

Joined: Wed May 18th, 2011, 19:28 GMT
Posts: 919
I like it, better than most of the gospel stuff anyway. Also like the new version of Every Grain of Sand. The fact that both are on spotify and neither are on the two disc set makes it more likely I'll be skipping this release altogether though.


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PostPosted: Wed October 25th, 2017, 12:28 GMT 
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Won’t skip this release. Uh-uh.


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PostPosted: Tue October 31st, 2017, 22:52 GMT 
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corso wrote:
MAKING A LIAR OUT OF ME
By Bob Dylan

I TELL people, you just going through changes
And that YOU'RE ACQUAINTED both with night and day
That your money's good and YOU just being courageous
On them burning bridges KNOWING your feet are made of clay
Well I say you won't be destroyed by your inventions
That you brought it ALL under captivity
And that you really do have all the best intentions
But you're making a liar out of me

Well I say that you just young and self-tormented
But that deep down you understand
The hopes and fears and dreams of the discontented
THAT threaten now to overtake your promised land
Well I say (delete "that") you'd not sow discord among brothers
Nor drain a man of his integrity
That you remember the cries of orphans and their mothers
But you're making a liar out of me
But you're making a liar out of me

Well I say that, THAT ain't flesh and blood you're drinking
In the wounded empire of your fool's paradise
With A light above your head forever blinking
Turning virgins into merchandise
That you must have been beautiful when you were living
You remind me of some old-time used-to-be
I say you can be trusted with the power you been given
But you're making a liar out of me

So many things SO HARD to say as you stumble
To take refuge in your offices of shame
As the earth beneath my feet BEGINS to rumble
And your young men die for nothin', not even fame
I say that someday you'll begin to trust us
And that your conscience not been slain by conformity
That you stand up unafraid to believe in justice
But you're making a liar out of me
You're making a liar out of me

Well I can hear the sound of distant thunder
From an open window at the end of every hall
Now that you're gone I got to wonder
If you ever were here at all
I say you never sacrificed my children
To some false god of infidelity
And that it's not the Tower of Babel that you're building
But you're making a liar out of me
You're making a liar out of me
WELL you're making a liar out of me


Just listened again. Great song!


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 02:08 GMT 
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It does get better and better. There's a strange thing that happens in good Dylan songs, individual lines that might not seem to fit together develop over time in the imagination into skeletons of structure and meaning. It's still early in the process for me, but just having a song like this to grow into is a treat. It's a great vocal performance, too.


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PostPosted: Wed November 1st, 2017, 07:40 GMT 
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smoke wrote:
It does get better and better. There's a strange thing that happens in good Dylan songs, individual lines that might not seem to fit together develop over time in the imagination into skeletons of structure and meaning. It's still early in the process for me, but just having a song like this to grow into is a treat. It's a great vocal performance, too.



yes


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