Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Mon November 20th, 2017, 19:02 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 21:47 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu August 17th, 2017, 20:00 GMT
Posts: 670
Location: Manchester England
Quote:
There's a lone soldier on the cross
Smoke pourin' out of a boxcar door
You didn't know it, you didn't think it could be done
In the final end he won the war
After losin' every battle


I've always wondered who the lone soldier was that Bob's talking about.
If the song is addressed to Sara Dylan, and it's her that ''didn't think it could be done''
is Dylan casting himself as a lone soldier, or is it based on any literature?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue October 10th, 2017, 22:38 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1889
Location: Ireland
LibraChild1980 wrote:
Quote:
There's a lone soldier on the cross
Smoke pourin' out of a boxcar door
You didn't know it, you didn't think it could be done
In the final end he won the war
After losin' every battle


I've always wondered who the lone soldier was that Bob's talking about.
If the song is addressed to Sara Dylan, and it's her that ''didn't think it could be done''
is Dylan casting himself as a lone soldier, or is it based on any literature?


'...a lone soldier on the cross...
In the final end he won the war
After losin' every battle',

I'd suggest is based on that work of literature that Dylan quotes more often than any other. Of course what Dylan intends it to mean in this context is a whole other question.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 01:38 GMT 

Joined: Tue June 21st, 2016, 17:01 GMT
Posts: 206
It's Audie Murphy in The Guns of Fort Petticoat. Sort of a warmup for the way Bob used Gregory Peck in The Gunfighter for "Brownsville Girl."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 01:45 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16756
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
I always got a Christian vibe, but I'll check out the Audie Murphy.



More importantly, who or what is the "one-eyed undertaker"?

I always thought it was his penis. I identified with this (not the penis itself, but the experience of having one) and I quite like the line as I understand it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 01:52 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri September 26th, 2008, 18:42 GMT
Posts: 507
Jesus. I think the description as "lone soldier" is metaphorically used. One could see Jesus' ministry as one doomed to failure (he was despised and rejected, finally betrayed by close friends). The cross was a humiliation. Yet the war was won on the third day in the Resurrection.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 07:19 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon October 24th, 2016, 06:10 GMT
Posts: 190
Well there are alot of refrences to mystery persons in dylan songs, "that enemy withen" even "the gardener is gone" but as thought provoking as these are, they're even other lines that appear in more than one song "know your not alone" is another and its like dont think you are, know you are. Heres another one,"If you go where the snowflakes storm" so like if you go there you would know what its like there. Thats something that maybe you may forget if you do nothing. Maybe thats why we live the way we do. Hearing Quinn the eskimo makes me happy and thats not a religious song


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 08:12 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon March 30th, 2009, 14:57 GMT
Posts: 1328
Location: Madly Across the Sun
smoke wrote:
More importantly, who or what is the "one-eyed undertaker"?

I always thought it was his penis. I identified with this (not the penis itself, but the experience of having one) and I quite like the line as I understand it.


I have in my mind now the unsettling vision of a penis with a bugle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 17:29 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon October 18th, 2010, 03:16 GMT
Posts: 1230
It's Jesus. It's always funking Jesus. It gets a bit tedious really...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 17:55 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1889
Location: Ireland
Anr Bjotk wrote:
It's Jesus. It's always funking Jesus. It gets a bit tedious really...


That's just the way it is and it doesn't change. You can always give up listening to Dylan (ah, but I'm only joking-please don't)!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 18:21 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon October 18th, 2010, 03:16 GMT
Posts: 1230
Mickvet wrote:
Anr Bjotk wrote:
It's Jesus. It's always funking Jesus. It gets a bit tedious really...


That's just the way it is and it doesn't change. You can always give up listening to Dylan (ah, but I'm only joking-please don't)!


Ironically (or not) I'm on the pro-gospel camp in the entire BS13 feud, but one thing about gospel or religious music is that it does go oooon about Jeeh-zus. Some say he died for our sins, but I'm not buying it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed October 11th, 2017, 19:09 GMT 

Joined: Fri January 5th, 2007, 23:38 GMT
Posts: 1889
Location: Ireland
Anr Bjotk wrote:
Mickvet wrote:

That's just the way it is and it doesn't change. You can always give up listening to Dylan (ah, but I'm only joking-please don't)!


Ironically (or not) I'm on the pro-gospel camp in the entire BS13 feud, but one thing about gospel or religious music is that it does go oooon about Jeeh-zus. Some say he died for our sins, but I'm not buying it.


You don't have to buy it. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoy the music.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 14th, 2017, 14:17 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 380
Bob.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 14th, 2017, 17:33 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Thu August 17th, 2017, 20:00 GMT
Posts: 670
Location: Manchester England
I always wondered if the lone soldier being ''on the cross''
might have been a metaphor in this instance, it's Bob talking
in the first person about himself to Sara, who he'd ''battle''.
The only reason i questioned the Jesus thing is because he
seems to be addressing Sara.

The other one that always got to me was the sinister man
from 'Shot Of Love';

''There’s a man that hates me and he’s swift, smooth and near
Am I supposed to set back and wait until he’s here?''

It seems personal ie not a ''Devil' reference.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat October 14th, 2017, 20:37 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 09:04 GMT
Posts: 10288
In the Israel Defence Forces 'lone soldier' refers to service personel who have no immediate family in Israel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 07:39 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 380
charlesdarwin wrote:
In the Israel Defence Forces 'lone soldier' refers to service personel who have no immediate family in Israel.


Right, yeah, I'm sure that's it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 08:01 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 09:04 GMT
Posts: 10288
FieldingMellish wrote:
charlesdarwin wrote:
In the Israel Defence Forces 'lone soldier' refers to service personel who have no immediate family in Israel.


Right, yeah, I'm sure that's it.


Yeah, well, I'm pretty certain it isn't. What it is is an example of the phrase being used in a different context, I thought that would be obvious. Not that I want to appear condescending or sarcastic, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 09:06 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 380
charlesdarwin wrote:

Yeah, well, I'm pretty certain it isn't. What it is is an example of the phrase being used in a different context, I thought that would be obvious. Not that I want to appear condescending or sarcastic, of course.


Of course not - perish the thought! But I do wonder why you'd bring that up, except perhaps to demonstrate that you think special knowledge of IDF terminology is somethinig to advertise? For most of us, it brings to mind settlements, state terrorism, 'Neighbourhood Bully', and other sources of unplesantness we'd sooner not have to think of in connection with Bob Dylan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 11:08 GMT 
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri July 8th, 2005, 09:04 GMT
Posts: 10288
Firstly, since when has knowledge of a subject implyed approbation or approval? To continue stating the obvious, "the lone soldier" is not a common phrase, there's no widely accepted simple meaning, it appears in contexts which are some distance from Idiot Wind, which people may, or may not find interesting.

A further example, a soldier on a cross, if we take the unusual and arresting image at face value, e.g. if it's not a metaphorical cross, where have we encountered a lone soldier on a cross before? Might one be reminded of the rumour that went around at the beginning of the Great War of the Canadian soldier crucified by the Germans in front of their trenches? This didn't happen but was widely used as an example of "Hunnish frightfulness" at the time. Now, just to be clear I am not advocating the crucifixion of soldiers, nor am I saying Dylan had this incident in mind when writing the song.

Dylan's imagery scintillates, it changes meaning and significance depending on how you see/hear it, there's no straight one for one correspondence, no code to crack which unfolds what Dylan is "really" saying for the cognoscenti.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 11:41 GMT 

Joined: Sat August 5th, 2006, 11:56 GMT
Posts: 380
Well either you just googled 'lone solider' or you had some specialist knowledge. Neither seems to me a useful approach to the topic at hand.

The lyrics are, of course, insufficiently literal - most of the album is - to allow for any sort of straighforward analysis, that's true.

Whether there is or is not a 'code' to crack, has been a topic of debate from at least the mid 60s onwards, and just stating categirically that there is no code to crack, is almost as asinine as claiming that there is. We each of us put our own spin on these things, they mean what they men to us irrespective of any critical perspective.

I still don't see why anyone would bring up the IDF, but whatever floats your boat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 12:15 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 25th, 2011, 17:35 GMT
Posts: 5522
Location: .....down by the river
Just when I was looking forward to a lovely Sunday morning, someone mentions the IDF.
Please try to be more thoughtful of others before you post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 17:20 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon March 30th, 2009, 14:57 GMT
Posts: 1328
Location: Madly Across the Sun
This is all getting quite confusing now. Is the "lone soldier" a reference to Bob Dylan's penis? To Jesus' penis? Or an Israeli soldier's penis? The plot thickens...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 17:36 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16756
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
None of the above..."lone soldier" could describe my penis, though, as of late.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 17:39 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16756
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
FieldingMellish wrote:

I still don't see why anyone would bring up the IDF, but whatever floats your boat.



I don't see why anyone would be offended by bringing up a known reference to the phrase that was asked about. Especially in a thread where people casually mention penises.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun October 15th, 2017, 18:25 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon March 30th, 2009, 14:57 GMT
Posts: 1328
Location: Madly Across the Sun
smoke wrote:
FieldingMellish wrote:

I still don't see why anyone would bring up the IDF, but whatever floats your boat.



I don't see why anyone would be offended by bringing up a known reference to the phrase that was asked about. Especially in a thread where people casually mention penises.


Agreed. In the context of the thread, there was nothing offensive about Charles' post. The histrionics that ensued were unwarranted.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group