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PostPosted: Mon October 16th, 2017, 01:19 GMT 
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Just came back from a screening of Trouble No More. It opens with a first person shot of someone walking up the stairs to Bob's rehearsal space (Rundown Studios?). Up here, him and his band are rehearsing Jesus Met the Woman at the Well, I believe. After the track ends, it kicks into audience members talking about how Bob's religious concerts of the previous days have been a disappointment, it ends on a fan saying the music is good and he doesn't care about the religious aspect. Bob opens with Are You Ready and the fuzzy 8mm video tape footage from 1979 and I have to admit, I was not ready, yet.

Interspersed with sermons performed by Michael Shannon, in crisper HD quality video, this is certainly an interesting film. I have to say, the audience members (there were about 85 of us in the Howard Gilbmen theater on this rainy Sunday evening) were squirming in their seats and shaking their heads, laughing at the sermons. One guy walked out, and then Bob performed When He Returns. By the time he finished, his harmonica solo of What Can I Do For You?, he may not have converted this audience, but they believed in the power of Bob Dylan.

The ending performance of Abraham, John, and Martin is as profound and haunting as the rest of the 50 or so minutes of Trouble no More. The film ends on the soon to be released Every Grain of Sand rehearsal, which isn't as raw as the demo featured on Bootleg 1-3, but it has depth. This whole film has depth, the songs have depth, and Bob Dylan has depth. More depth than most people have in their big swimming pools.


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PostPosted: Tue October 17th, 2017, 12:17 GMT 
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I've been away for a month in the hole, after apparently insulting some of the other inmates - so I would appreciate it if someone could kindly bring me up to speed with what decent and listenable stuff* is actually going to be on this thing.


*note to Mods - you should see what I first wrote here, phewee you'd have banned me for another 10 years. But I'm a good boy now, don't send me back to the dark place, it smells of Warren Peace.


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PostPosted: Tue October 17th, 2017, 13:30 GMT 
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McG wrote:
I've been away for a month in the hole, after apparently insulting some of the other inmates - so I would appreciate it if someone could kindly bring me up to speed with what decent and listenable stuff* is actually going to be on this thing.


*note to Mods - you should see what I first wrote here, phewee you'd have banned me for another 10 years. But I'm a good boy now, don't send me back to the dark place, it smells of Warren Peace.


Check out 'Making a Liar Out of Me', which is either an unreleased masterpiece or a half finished rehearsal. I'd love to hear your take!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh5FQhbirrc


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PostPosted: Tue October 17th, 2017, 15:51 GMT 
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gibsona07 wrote:
McG wrote:
I've been away for a month in the hole, after apparently insulting some of the other inmates - so I would appreciate it if someone could kindly bring me up to speed with what decent and listenable stuff* is actually going to be on this thing.


*note to Mods - you should see what I first wrote here, phewee you'd have banned me for another 10 years. But I'm a good boy now, don't send me back to the dark place, it smells of Warren Peace.


Check out 'Making a Liar Out of Me', which is either an unreleased masterpiece or a half finished rehearsal. I'd love to hear your take!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh5FQhbirrc


I've already heard it - sounds like the Street-Legal and Bromberg sessions had a quickie behind the coke mountain.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 10:06 GMT 

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A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 10:14 GMT 
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SquareTotemPole wrote:
A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.


Utter bollocks.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 10:40 GMT 
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Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.

Thats a good description of the current sinatra period, or at least how i feel about it.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 10:47 GMT 
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McG wrote:
SquareTotemPole wrote:
A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.


Utter bollocks.


Thank you, I agree with you.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 11:28 GMT 

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SquareTotemPole wrote:
A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.


Thank you. I agree with you.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 11:32 GMT 
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SquareTotemPole wrote:
A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.

thank you
well said SquareTotemPole


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 12:42 GMT 

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SquareTotemPole wrote:
A lot of people around here are psychologically unable to process the possibility that Bob Dylan might have produced truly great songs during this period. It's a kind of denial thing. It's OK. It's like when you buy a $50 bottle of wine and convince yourself how great it is because you didn't want to have wasted the money when the $5 bottle tastes just as good. The inverse applies here: "I have already resolved quite clearly in my mind that this 1978 to 1981 period is crud. You think I'm going to revisit that decision? Give me a break. I am a person a very sound judgment. I don't get things like this wrong plus the new atheism is the dominant cultural force so you know .. give us something zinging with the Zeitgeist Bobby." That kind of thing. It's OK. These people might get over themselves at some point (a technical description of the process of transcendence).

Loving all this. It pokes and prods at almost every ultra-sensitive nerve-ending of the modern world. Bob Dylan has stepped outside of time as the "fans" stumble about wanting the kind of continuum they feel they deserve as loyal fans.


Well, there may well be an element of that. But Dylan's embrace of not just Jesus but evangelical 'born again' Christianity, and his fire and brimstone hectoring - combined with a fairly oddball right-wing political tone - was very, very offensive and confounding to fans at the time. I've said it before and I will say it again: Bob Dylan becoming a Christian was just about the most embarrassing thing that has ever happened.

But many fans - myself included - who instinctively wanted nothing to do with this period, and/or the religious themes, did catch up and recognise the value of some of the songs. And then there are the live performances...... Frankly, I am very much an atheist, yet I love 'Gotta Serve Somebody'.

That said, how many songs from this period rank among Dylan's very best work? Suggestions on a postcard, please...


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 12:49 GMT 
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FieldingMellish wrote:
That said, how many songs from this period rank among Dylan's very best work? Suggestions on a postcard, please...


Image


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 12:53 GMT 

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Here an unknown rehearsal of Every Grain of Sand
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... story.html


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 13:20 GMT 
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gerardv wrote:
Here an unknown rehearsal of Every Grain of Sand
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... story.html


Sounds like he had a particularly fierce vindaloo the night before.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 13:22 GMT 

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McG wrote:
gerardv wrote:
Here an unknown rehearsal of Every Grain of Sand
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... story.html


Sounds like he had a particularly fierce vindaloo the night before.


Exactly. I'm not blown away by the instrumentation either. That's what rehearsals are for :)


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 13:53 GMT 
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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 14:33 GMT 
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Huh, hadn’t heard that one.
Probably don’t need to again.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 14:38 GMT 

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gerardv wrote:
Here an unknown rehearsal of Every Grain of Sand
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/mu ... story.html


I like the arrangement, but was there really nothing better they could have included? That vocal was definitely not meant for public consumption.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 15:01 GMT 
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FieldingMellish wrote:
That said, how many songs from this period rank among Dylan's very best work? Suggestions on a postcard, please...



At least:

I Believe In You
Every Grain Of Sand
Caribbean Wind
Angelina

...disregarding Street-Legal and Infidels, which should be rated among his Christian albusm under any point of view, and in which there are at least 3-4 more masterpieces.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 15:17 GMT 
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Giuseppe Gazerro wrote:
FieldingMellish wrote:
That said, how many songs from this period rank among Dylan's very best work? Suggestions on a postcard, please...



At least:

I Believe In You
Every Grain Of Sand
Caribbean Wind
Angelina

...disregarding Street-Legal and Infidels, which should be rated among his Christian albusm under any point of view, and in which there are at least 3-4 more masterpieces.


Don't drag Street-Legal into this holy mess.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 15:21 GMT 
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McG wrote:
Giuseppe Gazerro wrote:

At least:

I Believe In You
Every Grain Of Sand
Caribbean Wind
Angelina

...disregarding Street-Legal and Infidels, which should be rated among his Christian albusm under any point of view, and in which there are at least 3-4 more masterpieces.


Don't drag Street-Legal into this holy mess.


I must admit *holy mess* is a triple pun which is actually very funny.
:D :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 15:28 GMT 
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McG wrote:
FieldingMellish wrote:
That said, how many songs from this period rank among Dylan's very best work? Suggestions on a postcard, please...


Image


NONE. (That's the right size postcard!)
And as for my previous comment which I made so tired I could not add to it past thank you,
someone not liking songs from this period is not "denial," if someone loves it then they can love it, if someone doesn't like it, they simply don't;
but I actually think there IS denial by some unconsciously by wanting this thing to be better than it really is. I mean it's the new release.
All the fuss about Making A Liar Out Of Me being so great is absurd to me. It's nothing. It's extremely medicore.
I get how everybody wants this to be as great as possible, but I can't stand the new samples, the three songs, that we've been given in advance. I wish I liked it more but I don't -
so to the person who claims not liking something by Dylan is a form of "denial," gimme a break.
This is Bob's worst period to me.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 15:49 GMT 
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Jim B. wrote:
I wish I liked it more but I don't -
so to the person who claims not liking something by Dylan is a form of "denial," gimme a break.
This is Bob's worst period to me.


Not sure Totem meant it straight up like that. Maybe.
Only Totem can answer that.

I recall not really liking Bob going in the direction he chose, by the time Saved came out, but sticking it out with him anyhow and being glad I did. I did/am doing the same (trying to stick it out) through the American Standard Period, but in a different way.
This time I’m really just waiting for him to get on with “the next thing.”

I will purchase this Box Set and enjoy it for what it’s worth.
Probably more so, since I never bought Triplets after choking on the other 2 before it.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 16:03 GMT 
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Wot he said. (Jim B, two posts up)

Most (not all, but most) great songwriting comes not from a sense of certainty but of doubt. Fewer songs are written about found love than lost love, far fewer good songs are written about abiding faith than questioning god, and very few good songs come from a position of dogma.

Regardless of whether one agrees, or not, with the messianic fervour of Bob's position during this period - which, in itself, seems to have shifted over time - I don't think there are any songs which merit the title 'masterpiece'. There are a handful, if that, which are excellent examples of good songwriting (Every Grain Of Sand), but not as many as the believers would want one to believe there are. Just because his narrative stance agrees with yours doesn't make a song 'great'.

The bottom line is that Bob is a songwriter (and performer) and during this period he didn't write that many enduring songs - as a songwriter one would expect him to write acceptably good songs in their own terms regardless of 'message', and he did. But not much leaps out and says to you 'this is one of the greatest things I've ever heard in my life'. Certainly nothing I've yet heard from this new release screams 'lost masterpiece'.

You want greatness as well as crafted songwriting look to Blonde on Blonde or Blood on The Tracks. Much of the so called 'Christian period' is basic hackwork. There is certainly far less sense of mystery, and ironically of 'god's creation', in that periods supposed trilogy than in a single song on John Wesley Harding or some of the Basement Tapes.

If the mystery and beauty of god's work as seen in the narration of 'Clothes Line Saga' eludes people, and they feel some song on 'Saved' or whatever is somehow 'better' or more profound, so be it, but I think they are wrong and I think they are missing the essence.

The performances are an entirely different matter. I, for one, adore some of the great blues spiritually based songs and much gospel music - as music and as performance - regardless of any personal views about god or his/her/its various supposed Messiahs, and I look at Bob's performances during this period in that light; they either connect or they don't.

My karma ran over your dogma.


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PostPosted: Wed October 18th, 2017, 16:45 GMT 

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Giuseppe Gazerro wrote:
At least:

I Believe In You
Every Grain Of Sand
Caribbean Wind
Angelina


Precious Angel
Slow Train
honorary mention: Groom's Still Waiting


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