Expecting Rain

Go to main page
It is currently Sat November 18th, 2017, 23:15 GMT

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 01:04 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 321
From searchingforagem:
21 Jul 2017: Thanks to Harold Lepidus for news that two 1965 shows recorded by Allen Ginsberg that were not included on the 50th Anniversary Collection 1965 (see 2015) are about to be made public. More information will be added when available, but they must be from Dec 1965.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 01:09 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 321
P.S. I am sorry if this is old news on the forum. I didn't see anything about it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 02:07 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat October 27th, 2007, 12:44 GMT
Posts: 16755
Location: Workin' as a postal clerk
It's news to me-and damn good news, too!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 02:26 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 321
Unfortunately, we're probably talking about fair-to-poor sound quality. Probably overdriven room recordings onto mono tape. It's possible that Ginsberg got access to a P.A. feed, but I doubt that very much. Still, I'm very curious about the setlists, at the very least!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 02:38 GMT 

Joined: Fri October 5th, 2007, 01:06 GMT
Posts: 279
If you get Carnegie Hall who cares what the quality is. Remember Ginsberg recorded Berkeley and it sounded pretty good.

Gotta think if they have decided they need to protect something that doesn't circulate, we may get JWH outtakes too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 09:42 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon October 18th, 2010, 03:16 GMT
Posts: 1230
Wooah! A new Ginsberg tape? I don't care what the quality is, that's a no-brainer just for historical value. If we're real lucky it'll be like the 1980 Denver show he taped and provided running commentary throughout. "Yeah, Bobby!" :lol: I wonder what ever happened to that old tape recorder he used...

What does it mean that they'll be "made public"? A regular release or some sneaky under the radar shizz?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 11:37 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 7th, 2006, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 2976
I'm no legal expert – but the problem with 50+year old recordings that are still unreleased might be that they are public domain by now. If Sony releases them now anybody is able ([i]and[/i] allowed) to spread them. Thus it's quite likely that they'll keep them hidden until copyright laws change (or they might add them to some other release as a download code etc.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 12:16 GMT 
Promethium Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue December 14th, 2010, 14:22 GMT
Posts: 43254
Location: Beneath the Southern X
slewan wrote:
(or they might add them to some other release as a download code etc.)


Well, that would keep people from spreading them...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 12:26 GMT 

Joined: Fri October 5th, 2007, 01:06 GMT
Posts: 279
Someone at the Hoffman forum says they are west coast shows.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 12:55 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat January 3rd, 2009, 15:19 GMT
Posts: 8327
Location: Desolation Row
It's San Francisco '65. They're currently held in the Stanford Library. Someone over at Hoffman has been to the library and heard them. Meant to be a great show and good quality. Includes a backstage conversation between Dylan and Ginsberg.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 13:38 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 23rd, 2011, 14:43 GMT
Posts: 1465
Location: Singapore
Great news!

When I saw that stuff over on SHF about the Berkeley boot not really being from Berkeley, I wondered if more stuff might begin to leak out ...
Cant have too much 1965-66 imo !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 14:01 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 7th, 2006, 15:14 GMT
Posts: 2976
Johanna Parker wrote:
slewan wrote:
(or they might add them to some other release as a download code etc.)


Well, that would keep people from spreading them...


surely not, but it might be a way to release the stuff not completely for free


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 14:15 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 22nd, 2006, 22:20 GMT
Posts: 813
The Bard wrote:
Great news!

When I saw that stuff over on SHF about the Berkeley boot not really being from Berkeley, I wondered if more stuff might begin to leak out ...
Cant have too much 1965-66 imo !


Missed that. If not Berkeley, where's it from?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 15:07 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 321
smiley wrote:
The Bard wrote:
Great news!

When I saw that stuff over on SHF about the Berkeley boot not really being from Berkeley, I wondered if more stuff might begin to leak out ...
Cant have too much 1965-66 imo !


Missed that. If not Berkeley, where's it from?


Seems like the "Berkeley" show is actually San Jose. The entire show exists (rather than just the circulating bits), and exists in better sound quality too!

This person called RandPink on Hoffman forums posted these notes:

RandPink said: ↑

Ok, here we go...buckle up.

I had a chance to listen to the two Dylan concert items in the Stanford Library Archive labeled as:
MO733 Box 119, reel 7, Bob Dylan, San Jose 1965, Dec 12th
MO733 Box 134, reel 5, San Francisco, undated

The following is taken from notes that I took while listening:

Box 119 contains the entire San Jose Civic Auditorium concert from December 12th, complete acoustic and electric sets
Setlist:
She Belongs to Me
To Ramona (Epic version)
Gates of Eden (easily the definitive live version of this song, singing/phrasing is unreal)
Baby Blue
Desolation Row
Love Minus Zero
Mr. Tambourine Man

Tombstone Blues
I Don't Believe You
Baby Let me Follow You Down
Tom Thumbs Blues
Long Distance Operator
It Ain't Me Babe
Ballad of a Thin Man
Positively 4th Street
Like a Rolling Stone

The Berkeley December 4th show does NOT exist. It has been mislabeled all these years, it is actually the San Jose set. The electric set from San Jose is the exact circulating recording that has been available over the years labeled as Berkeley Community Theater. I guess I'm making a habit of correcting Sony mislabeling stuff, kinda funny.



Box 134 contains the entire San Francisco Masonic Memorial Temple concert from December 11th, complete acoustic and electric sets (except for She Belongs to me which is missing)
Setlist:
To Ramona
Gates of Eden
Baby Blue
Desolation Row (in the conversation for definitive live version)
Love Minus Zero
Visions of Johanna (first recorded live performance and in the conversation for definitive live version, epic, introduced as "Alcatraz to the 9th Power Revisited", has the nightingale's code line, hard to make out but he appears to tell the audience that "I sang this song last week in concert" - which would likely mean he played Visions at Berkeley)
Mr. Tambourine Man (rivals Sheffield and RAH2 as definitive live version. Harp solos rival Sheffield, unbelievably)

Tombstone Blues (cuts in at first chorus)
I Don't Believe You
Baby Let me Follow You Down
Tom Thumbs Blues (very slight cut in)
Long Distance Operator ("Murder you with her smile")
It Ain't Me Babe (singing is better here than in the San Jose show)
Ballad of a Thin Man ("You're positive something is happening here now but you ain't got the faintest idea what it is", better version than San Jose)
Positively 4th Street (This is the definitive live version of this song. The singing is unreal, "screeeam iiiiiiiit!" "To see yooooooooouu!" wow, Bob is clearly having fun. Garth crushes it)
Like a Rolling Stone (Epic, last chorus epic)

~the San Francisco show immediately enters the "best concert of his career" conversation. It is an unbelievable listen. Dylan's interaction with the audience is special here, the entire crowd is sitting on the edge of their seats.
Dylan says to Ginsberg during the intermission of the San Jose show that "what you are seeing now is a typical concert, last night was wild, I sort of felt who they were out there". Bob was still very much beaming from the SF show 24 hours later.

The San Francisco show is of lesser sound quality on both acoustic and electric sets, but still very good. SF electric set Dylan's vocals are higher in the mix than on the SJ tape. The San Jose electric set is a sound quality upgrade from what has been circulating.

Ok, well there it is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 15:14 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 22nd, 2006, 22:20 GMT
Posts: 813
Thank you! Really appreciated. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 15:34 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri December 31st, 2010, 12:18 GMT
Posts: 573
Location: Where The Neon Madmen Climb
keithdylan wrote:
If you get Carnegie Hall who cares what the quality is. Remember Ginsberg recorded Berkeley and it sounded pretty good.

Gotta think if they have decided they need to protect something that doesn't circulate, we may get JWH outtakes too.


Ginsberg didn't record Berkeley. The electric set at San Jose has been mislabelled all these years as Berkeley, 04 December. Even the Live '65 Copyright Collection mislabelled it as Berkeley. It isn't Berkeley; it's San Jose.

Ginsberg recorded San Francisco, 11 December 1965 and San Jose, 12 December 1965 with his newly-acquired reel-to-reel tape recorder (a Uher, I believe) which cost him $500. Bob had encouraged him to record the shows from the audience. Ginsberg was not familiar with his equipment; the recordings aren't bad, but with that sort of equipment, and given the artist had given his permission, they could have been much better. The recorder is also switched off and on abruptly between songs at San Francisco, but mostly left running between songs at San Jose.

Ginsberg also taped interviews with fans outside the San Jose Civic Auditorium before and after the show for about an hour and a half, and recorded his conversations with Bob backstage prior to the acoustic set at San Francisco and between sets at San Jose.

At San Francisco in the first half, Bob performed his newly-minted comedy number, "Visions of Johanna" (calling it "Alcatraz To The 9th Power Revisited"), with a lengthy harmonica introduction. He didn't perform it the next night at San Jose which seems a bit odd. Perhaps he felt he needed to re-think the intro, despite the song being warmly received by the audience at SF. "Positively 4th Street" zings on both nights.


Sample from the fan interviews at San Jose, pre-show:-

Young Girl, talking about a recently broadcast interview with BD: "They asked him what he thought of people rushing onto the stage, and he said, "Oh, I don't know, I'd just kick 'em in the head, they'd get the message.""

Ginsberg: "How would you like to be kicked in the head?"

Young Girl:"By Bob Dylan? I'd love it!"

Fandom clearly knows no bounds...

#


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 15:39 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Tue August 22nd, 2006, 22:20 GMT
Posts: 813
Thank you too! Again, appreciated. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 19:18 GMT 
Titanium Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat January 1st, 2011, 20:57 GMT
Posts: 6723
Location: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I posted this the other day but there wasn't this much information. I'd like to hear this for historical purposes. Here's he original post from Facebook. [img]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/7c460235328b865a41a8b0826114fa3c.jpg[/img]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 19:38 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Fri December 31st, 2010, 12:18 GMT
Posts: 573
Location: Where The Neon Madmen Climb
Here is the Press Conference televised on 03 December prior the Bay Area concerts. Can't get too much of a good thing!

"I mean, they must be pretty rich to be able to go some place and boo. I couldn't afford it if I was in their shoes."

" Sometimes you get people rushing the stage, but you know...turn 'em off very fast... kick 'em in the head..."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPIS257tvoA&t=1250s


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun July 23rd, 2017, 21:27 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Sun November 13th, 2016, 02:00 GMT
Posts: 255
I can't wait for these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon July 24th, 2017, 08:33 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Mon October 18th, 2010, 03:16 GMT
Posts: 1230
Wait, what? So the 4th December Berkeley show from "1965 Revisited" is actually San Jose 12 December? And that was recorded by Ginsberg?
Are the Ginsberg tapes 11/12 december circulated or not? Confused... :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon July 24th, 2017, 10:09 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed December 16th, 2009, 12:57 GMT
Posts: 712
I haven´t even finished listening to the 1966 live set and I already need to hear these!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon July 24th, 2017, 13:38 GMT 

Joined: Sun April 17th, 2016, 14:09 GMT
Posts: 1725
Location: Austria
Give it to me straight I like the 1965 concerts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon July 24th, 2017, 13:45 GMT 
User avatar

Joined: Wed December 5th, 2012, 18:52 GMT
Posts: 4873
Location: In a hole in the ground there lived a....
Exciting in the Bob world there just never seems to be an end to it all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon July 24th, 2017, 15:18 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
Posts: 321
Anr Bjotk wrote:
Wait, what? So the 4th December Berkeley show from "1965 Revisited" is actually San Jose 12 December? And that was recorded by Ginsberg?
Are the Ginsberg tapes 11/12 december circulated or not? Confused... :?


The previously circulated "Berkeley" material is from San Jose, yes. And only half the show circulated previously, where the whole show was archived. Was the previously circulating material sourced from Ginsberg's tape or a separate source? That's unclear to me. Either way, the newly-digitized tape is supposedly an upgrade in sound quality.

Actual Berkeley tape, on the other hand, is now not thought to exist at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AndoDoug, Mail Train


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group