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PostPosted: Tue January 31st, 2017, 23:37 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me.

Thanks for that nice list of songs by the great Billie Holiday. Billie Holiday did possibly the second best recording ever of Stormy Weather, after Ethel Waters of course. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue January 31st, 2017, 23:50 GMT 
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goodmeats wrote:
How can people knock on this (especially so early) and say they are Dylan fans?


Jesus.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 00:00 GMT 
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Bob Dylan - I Cover The Torture Front


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 00:05 GMT 

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yopietro wrote:
goodmeats wrote:
How can people knock on this (especially so early) and say they are Dylan fans?


Jesus.


If you don't like Bob Dylan why do you even come here?


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 00:18 GMT 
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Given the choice between nothing and this, Ill take this.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 00:25 GMT 
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Bob is on my watch list and any time he puts out a new album I'll buy it no questions asked. Who knows, it may turn out to be really good. We don't know until we get it. I myself am optimistic about this new album.

And anyway good or bad I will still appreciate the effort that Bob has put into creating it.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 00:46 GMT 

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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
yopietro wrote:
A question to all those enthused by this next round of Sinatra. To those who feel that any new Dylan release is a reason to get excited. And who revel in Dylan once again being a contrarian and confounding his critics. Do you have a breaking point? How about if he releases another batch of 50 standards next year? How about if it turns out he recorded 276 standards with Al Schmitt and the next 8 Dylan releases are batches of standards? When would be too much for you??


In my opinion this not "the next round of Sinatra", this Dylan singing some of the greatest American songs of the 20th century. I have been listening to Billie Holiday for pretty much as long as I have been listening to Dylan. Billie Holiday recorded "standards" throughout her whole career, often with small bands, like Dylan, instead of Sinatra-style orchestras. Billie Holiday's recordings for Commodore and Verve/Clef for example, are very similar in spirit, style and approach to Dylan's "Shadows" and "Fallen Angels". All of Billie Holiday's releases were "batches of standards". And some of the greatest art of the 20th century, because, like Dylan, Billie Holiday strips away the bull***t, cuts to the core of the songs and through the force of her personality and the most human of voices paints a picture of all humanity, by singing those songs. Dylan doing another three albums of that kind of music? I love it.

Here's the great Billie Holiday doing some of the "Triplicate" songs.

Billie Holiday: Stormy Weather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4JTE76Xnp0

Billie Holiday: As Time Goes By
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e07Bpv7uOrM

Billie Holiday: How Deep Is The Ocean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vEum7syn00

Billie Holiday: P.S. I Love You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouO_iqY_gRk

Billie Holiday: But Beautiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeqLftGkaEI

Billie Holiday: Day In, Day Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-3RSKqOKWI

Billie Holiday: These Foolish Things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_20tKuKtF8

Billie Holiday: You Go To My Head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7xQd3yt590

Billie Holiday: Why Was I Born
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr-eR_t6fcc


Very well put. What Bob is doing was standard practice in the music industry for the better part of the 20th century...One result of which was Sinatra, but also Holliday (a treasure as you rightly point out) and countless others. I hate to read the phrase "Sinatra covers" so bandied about because a) he hardly established the definitive version of most of these songs, and b) these songs were meant to be interpreted by others....Not to mention Sinatra himself "covered" the bulk of them but we don't use that verb when describing him.

Anyway, your username alone obviously shows you have some appreciation for this stuff so I'm in full agreement with you. Btw, I'm most looking forward to "P.S. I Love You" as I have always had a fondness for the song as it addresses my initials :p

Having said that, I'm not sure I would have chosen another album (or three) of standards but I certainly won't turn them down.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 01:17 GMT 
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goodmeats wrote:
How can people knock on this (especially so early) and say they are Dylan fans? This is clearly him clearing the vaults of songs he recorded the past few years and I am excited to hear it. What was nice about Shadows In The Night and Fallen Angels is they were an homage to Frank Sinatra, but now he is continuing the theme of honoring the songs he grew up listening to and is giving us a broader picture of his influences. He is clearly thinking of this as the third album of a trilogy of American Standards and it will hopefully be a strong closer.


He's not clearing vaults. This came from a distinct additional set of studio time after he recorded SITN and FA.

Whether Bob presents this music as his influences - I reject the notion this type of music was an influence for Blonde on Blonde. Bob destroyed this type of music with his 60s career. Maybe he feels bad in his old age for putting a knife through the heart of crooner lounge lizard muzak.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 02:40 GMT 

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I'm thrilled this is coming out. With all the crying and moaning from some fans I was concerned that Sony or Dylan might never release this material.
Of course I'd also like an album of all original material, or another album of covers. Or whatever Dylan decides to record and release.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 02:43 GMT 

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yopietro wrote:
A question to all those enthused by this next round of Sinatra. To those who feel that any new Dylan release is a reason to get excited. And who revel in Dylan once again being a contrarian and confounding his critics. Do you have a breaking point? How about if he releases another batch of 50 standards next year? How about if it turns out he recorded 276 standards with Al Schmitt and the next 8 Dylan releases are batches of standards? When would be too much for you??


No. I like everything I've heard so far. I enjoy his singing.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 02:45 GMT 
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Also the Beatles cover is exciting


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 02:52 GMT 
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gibsona07 wrote:
It appears there has been some misinformation about this release. It's not more Sinatra albums, but in fact Bob's long awaited Hip Hop trilogy, as I can exclusively reveal through this leaked cover art.

Image Image Image


YES!!


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 02:59 GMT 

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While I still hope for a Lanois produced // or collaborative record of originals + song or two with Mavis Staples.... I really love his reworking of these standards and love his voice and arrangements on these records. In an odd way I find these to be some of his most vulnerable records.

As others have said I can't see him releasing more covers of these standard type songs after this triple album.. FWIW.

lastly, love the font choice!


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 03:00 GMT 
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^^^^^^^^Thnx for the Billie Holiday ties to Triplicate!!!!

Go Bob! You can keep having fun with standards for another 5 records to me.
There's already more than enough originals in the can and released.
Just give us that final Gospel album ala Closer Walk With Thee before you pass.

Looking forward to Triplicate! Damn the torpedos!


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 03:31 GMT 
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Maybe Bob has experienced this again, with his modern techniques:

Quote:
“You can’t do something forever,” he says. “I did it once, and I can do other things now. But I can’t do that.”


If so, I am sad; both for him and for us.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 04:12 GMT 
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patford wrote:
yopietro wrote:
A question to all those enthused by this next round of Sinatra. To those who feel that any new Dylan release is a reason to get excited. And who revel in Dylan once again being a contrarian and confounding his critics. Do you have a breaking point? How about if he releases another batch of 50 standards next year? How about if it turns out he recorded 276 standards with Al Schmitt and the next 8 Dylan releases are batches of standards? When would be too much for you??


No. I like everything I've heard so far. I enjoy his singing.

perfect post patford

Image


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 05:39 GMT 
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goodmeats wrote:
Also the Beatles cover is exciting

To quote Ghostbusters: There Is No Dana, Only Zuul.
I mean: There is no Beatles, only Frank.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 07:10 GMT 
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When I first read about this new release, i was hoping this was some sort of early April Fool joke. But now it seems to be true: we are really going to get three more albums of Dylan doing American Standards...
I was exited about SITN, simply because it was so unexpected, something completly different. When FAllen Angels came out, I was like..."now he is overdoing it".And now this triple set, it's just too much of a not so good thing. It's like telling a joke five times in a row. A joke that wasn't even that funny the first time around. For me, Bob's way of singing, his way of delivering these songs just doesn't fit this kind of material.
For the first time in my life, I will probably pass on a new Bob Dylan release. Sad.

And as far as the "clearing the vaults"-theory goes: I'm convinced there are tons of recordings from the last 50 years that are worth releasing before any of this triplicate stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 07:53 GMT 
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Again another collection of boring songs with probably monotonous arrangements.

I'm hungry for a new album with real Bob Dylan songs.

Although I know, that many of you are delighted about every new release, I really have enough of those "Amercian Songbook" collections and concerts :? :? :? !


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 08:26 GMT 
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I think it's wrong that anyone should be judging this steaming pile of crap before they've heard it.


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:04 GMT 
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littlemaggie wrote:
I think it's wrong that anyone should be judging this steaming pile of crap before they've heard it.


Indeed. As Karl Marx said the other week, “Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. I would expand and add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, and the third, fourth and fifth time as an absolutely almighty pisstaking kick to the balls.”


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:23 GMT 
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Dylan fans are so fickle that it's more than likely that if shadows/fallen angels and much of this triplicate stuff had laid gathering dust and had turned up on a Bootleg series release years later that the majority of fans would be asking why it hadn't been released. Talking to lots of older Dylan fans they now tell you that they always liked Self Portrait for instance when it came out (when you know the majority of them are lying). And do you not think this is reflected in Another self portrait too, if attitudes towards Self Portrait hadn't mellowed over the years would we have had this release?


People are now excited about the proposed Gospel Bootleg series but wasn't this another period where years later people forget their initial reaction to it and now claim they always liked this period?

Seems to be we should really judge the reaction to these albums in say twenty years time as we seem to have done with a lot of other eras of Dylan's music.

If you remember the Bromberg Tapes may have come out after Good As I been to you/ World Gone Wrong and thats what a double album of covers isnt it that most Dylan fans would die to hear. And I dont think these 1990's acoustic albums were that well recieved when they came out in the 90's either (probably because they weren't originals) I was a young Dylan fan back then and I recall the reaction to hearing he wasnt recording original material as being similar to now (even though not many seemed to like Under the red sky either).


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:24 GMT 
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My Echo, My Shadow And Me wrote:
yopietro wrote:
A question to all those enthused by this next round of Sinatra. To those who feel that any new Dylan release is a reason to get excited. And who revel in Dylan once again being a contrarian and confounding his critics. Do you have a breaking point? How about if he releases another batch of 50 standards next year? How about if it turns out he recorded 276 standards with Al Schmitt and the next 8 Dylan releases are batches of standards? When would be too much for you??


In my opinion this not "the next round of Sinatra", this Dylan singing some of the greatest American songs of the 20th century. I have been listening to Billie Holiday for pretty much as long as I have been listening to Dylan. Billie Holiday recorded "standards" throughout her whole career, often with small bands, like Dylan, instead of Sinatra-style orchestras. Billie Holiday's recordings for Commodore and Verve/Clef for example, are very similar in spirit, style and approach to Dylan's "Shadows" and "Fallen Angels". All of Billie Holiday's releases were "batches of standards". And some of the greatest art of the 20th century, because, like Dylan, Billie Holiday strips away the bull***t, cuts to the core of the songs and through the force of her personality and the most human of voices paints a picture of all humanity, by singing those songs. Dylan doing another three albums of that kind of music? I love it.

Here's the great Billie Holiday doing some of the "Triplicate" songs.

Billie Holiday: Stormy Weather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4JTE76Xnp0

Billie Holiday: As Time Goes By
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e07Bpv7uOrM

Billie Holiday: How Deep Is The Ocean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vEum7syn00

Billie Holiday: P.S. I Love You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouO_iqY_gRk

Billie Holiday: But Beautiful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeqLftGkaEI

Billie Holiday: Day In, Day Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-3RSKqOKWI

Billie Holiday: These Foolish Things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_20tKuKtF8

Billie Holiday: You Go To My Head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7xQd3yt590

Billie Holiday: Why Was I Born
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr-eR_t6fcc



Excellent post, Mr. Echo, and many thanks for the BH links. Agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. I believe SITN was using Billie Holiday as a template much more than it used Sinatra. I shed a few tears when I first heard Billie's album, "Lady In Satin"; the same thing happened (unexpectedly) when I first heard SITN. I think it is a brilliant move to issue the 30 songs in this manner.

#


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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:26 GMT 
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Desolation Row wrote:
Dylan fans are so fickle that it's more than likely that if shadows/fallen angels and much of this triplicate stuff had laid gathering dust and had turned up on a Bootleg series release years later that the majority of fans would be asking why it hadn't been released. Talking to lots of older Dylan fans they now tell you that they always liked Self Portrait for instance when it came out (when you know the majority of them are lying). And do you not think this is reflected in Another self portrait too, if attitudes towards Self Portrait hadn't mellowed over the years would we have had this release?


People are now excited about the proposed Gospel Bootleg series but wasn't this another period where years later people forget their initial reaction to it and now claim they always liked this period?

Seems to be we should really judge the reaction to these albums in say twenty years time as we seem to have done with a lot of other eras of Dylan's music.

If you remember the Bromberg Tapes may have come out after Good As I been to you/ World Gone Wrong and thats what a double album of covers isnt it that most Dylan fans would die to hear. And I dont think these 1990's acoustic albums were that well recieved when they came out in the 90's either (probably because they weren't originals) I was a young Dylan fan back then and I recall the reaction to hearing he wasnt recording original material as being similar to now (even though not many seemed to like Under the red sky either).


Dylan's genius lies in realizing that by becoming increasingly crap as time went on, it meant his stuff would always seem better in retrospect.


Last edited by McG on Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:29 GMT, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed February 1st, 2017, 09:28 GMT 
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Desolation Row wrote:
Seems to be we should really judge the reaction to these albums in say twenty years time as we seem to have done with a lot of other eras of Dylan's music.




I would be surprised if I got that much time left.


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