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PostPosted: Fri May 6th, 2016, 17:06 GMT 

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This is a sad story, in many ways. Sad for the author, whose lifelong obsession with celebrity in general and Dylan in particular took on creepy overtones during their brief time together- she apparently picked up his vocal inflections and his gait, in the time she wasn't showering him with gifts - and who was still struggling to get over their two-week liaison years later. Sad also for Dylan, who seemed to surround himself with people who catered to his every whim without question. He seemed to have momentary pangs of regret after mistreating people, but there were always more willing victims waiting in the wings. I hope they are both healthier and happier now than they were back then.


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PostPosted: Fri May 6th, 2016, 17:20 GMT 
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Writing a book about a relationship you had with a Celebrity reeks of desperation and immorality to me. There are things in life that is nobody's business. What goes on between two people in a Romantic Relationship is most definitely one of them.


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PostPosted: Fri May 6th, 2016, 19:23 GMT 
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I'm 30 pages in, it's been a busy week. So far she has met Dylan a few times and they seem to be having fun even though she's going out with Bob's liaison Ernie. The whole idea of Bob going to 80's Hollywood parties having a beer and then a lot of gin is weird for me, especially when you see how he is now. Shape-shifter, Heart fixer, mind regulator, true to the end.


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PostPosted: Sat May 7th, 2016, 11:49 GMT 

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goodnitesteve wrote:
Sorry thought it was small enough
Image


from the writer's block era, wow, too much gin

Woody Guthrie was known for writing a song for his next target


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PostPosted: Sat May 7th, 2016, 23:38 GMT 

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I quite liked the book. She was/is a writer, so it's not exactly an exploitative situation, writers use immediate resources. But the style is not particularly interesting and there are endless digressions into fashion and cakes.

As someone previously said you get more insight into the mortal man than a half dozen biographies / hagiographies.

So two people had a fun time once upon a time, and one mistook signals and got hurt - happens every day.

I learned that he sent people for chicken and vegetables after a late studio session and it was a several hours round trip. (It is not specified how the chicken was cooked, or what vegetables.)

Allegedly, as I think we know, he was on heroin in the 60s and there really was a motorcycle crash, albeit not life-threatening, and that was used as an opportunity to clean up.

Allegedly, he was so broke in the early days in New York that he was a male prostitute.

If you were him, it is fine to stop the tour buses to go on walk for several hours, while everyone just waits to see when you'll be back.

Allegedly, his kids seemed quiet and subdued around him. In this period of time, and in this account - the veracity I cannot judge - he comes across as a bit lonely, spoiled, needy, banal, and vacuous.

If you threw a party in the mid/late 80 then don't serve him Gin but keep a load of Wild Turkey Whiskey. (A-list parties in the mid/late 80s sound terribly boring...oh look, Bruce Willis is rolling a joint...here comes Don Johnson...Liz Taylor wants to sit next to you...Sean Lennon wants your hat...no wonder he could leave after five minutes.)

Like a lot of affluent people he liked to give gifts and his acquaintances liked to give to him.

Apparently she was asked to pick the set-list for him on at least one occasion, and he would play songs for her, turning to the wings towards where she was. A lot of performances are discussed and someone should do a compilation of '87 to accompany the book.

I'm a long term fan and it was quite refreshing to see the idol as human - I have put him on a pedestal and think I take a sadistic pleasure in iconoclasm.

We're all struggling...that's what I get from the book...it's rough out there...

.


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PostPosted: Sun May 8th, 2016, 13:00 GMT 
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Thanks for the rundown, ragman.

Got that picture in mind of Jerry Garcia in the eighties sitting around at home with his cat.

I will read it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 07:06 GMT 

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Kiss and tell is rarely pretty, but it is hard to imagine Dylan selling his favours for $20 while Mama and Papa were begging him to come home, and were probably sending him the odd food parcel. A woman scorned perhaps. Dylan said people can talk plenty about him when his gone. Seems like some people can't wait.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 09:26 GMT 

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Huck27 wrote:
Kiss and tell is rarely pretty, but it is hard to imagine Dylan selling his favours for $20 while Mama and Papa were begging him to come home, and were probably sending him the odd food parcel. A woman scorned perhaps. Dylan said people can talk plenty about him when his gone. Seems like some people can't wait.


It was Dylan who first claimed this, male (though not exclusively - trust Bob's ego to poke into his tale!) prostitution. Then again, as we all know, he claimed many things to catch attention and build The Legend....he spun many a myth, some of which have stuck. In this case he was off his face when talking to Robert Shelton in 1966:

"Sometimes we would make one hundred a night, really, from four in the afternoon until three or four in the morning," he said. "Cats would pick us up and chicks would pick us up. And we would do anything you wanted, as long as it was paid...I almost got killed...I didn't come down to the Village until two months later. Nobody knew that I had been hustling uptown."

He told a similar story to Victor Maymudes who, like, Shelton, repeated it in print.


PS I guess if you are interested in this kind of thing then the fact he repeated a similar tale to her two decades later might be intriguing. Or it might be he's just got a few standard stories left that haven't been disproved or he's told it so often he now believes it himself. This last is a common occurrence. Al Kooper was still talking about the "one-take" LARS even after alternate takes were available, after all. There are lots of possibilities, none of which would tell us a minuscule fraction of what we could learn from another listen to, say, "Visions of Johanna". The work is endlessly rewarding and public, the dust of rumours = not so much.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 12:39 GMT 

Joined: Tue November 13th, 2012, 17:27 GMT
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You wouldn't believe the handsome young guys from quite well off families I have known in my youth who increased their pocket money and thus independence with the odd service. It was the 60ies, there was no HIV, and morals where but a good joke to us young ones. We believed in breaking all bondaries. Times have changed though.

I read in the news on the main page that it was in fact Maymudes who told her, and not Bob himself. I also read there that he proposed to write a musical about female Holocaust survivors titled "Nazi Whores". If that is true and she did not kick his jewels upon hearing that, she deserved all she got. There are worse moral disgressions than selling out the hardware a bit, and that would be one.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 12:56 GMT 
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I don't know about all this. Especially the link to the NY Post on the front page today reads like the National Enquirer.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 15:39 GMT 
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Of course a woman goes into digressions into fashion and cake...I much rather a male's perspective, generally constant grating remarks on penis envy. :roll:

I'm around chapter 4 now. I highly recommend this book, it's an interesting time in Dylan's life even if you don't think so. Evidently, he recorded an entire album in the 80's and discarded it for the jumble of songs we got on Knocked out Loaded. Shain's uncle actually was a songwriter, he wrote Unchain my Heart (Which Bob actually did on tour around this time), Don't Set Me Free, and Take me Back to my Boots & Saddle. There's a passage about her walking through his point dune estate where she describes finding a dilapidated shed full of trunks and costumes and clothes from all around the world.

At his birthday party where there's a bit of a cake fight, there's a remark about Jakob and Samuel stealing champagne and Carol, Bob's girlfriend then, chasing after them. Also, Harry Dean Stanton is around a lot, he lives nearby I imagine, because he lives near Nicholson and Brando, and that's where Bob is near.

I can't wait to read more. I've been taking my time with it, absorbing everything.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 16:50 GMT 

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goodnitesteve wrote:
Of course a woman goes into digressions into fashion and cake...I much rather a male's perspective, generally constant grating remarks on penis envy. :roll:

I'm around chapter 4 now. I highly recommend this book, it's an interesting time in Dylan's life even if you don't think so. Evidently, he recorded an entire album in the 80's and discarded it for the jumble of songs we got on Knocked out Loaded. Shain's uncle actually was a songwriter, he wrote Unchain my Heart (Which Bob actually did on tour around this time), Don't Set Me Free, and Take me Back to my Boots & Saddle. There's a passage about her walking through his point dune estate where she describes finding a dilapidated shed full of trunks and costumes and clothes from all around the world.

At his birthday party where there's a bit of a cake fight, there's a remark about Jakob and Samuel stealing champagne and Carol, Bob's girlfriend then, chasing after them. Also, Harry Dean Stanton is around a lot, he lives nearby I imagine, because he lives near Nicholson and Brando, and that's where Bob is near.

I can't wait to read more. I've been taking my time with it, absorbing everything.


Loved your opening sentence and thanks for the insight into something I had intended to avoid. That line about the album ties in with something Al Kooper (I think, a musician with Bob connections, certainly) said some months before KOL was released.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 16:53 GMT 

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Mutabor wrote:
You wouldn't believe the handsome young guys from quite well off families I have known in my youth who increased their pocket money and thus independence with the odd service. It was the 60ies, there was no HIV, and morals where but a good joke to us young ones. We believed in breaking all bondaries. Times have changed though.

I read in the news on the main page that it was in fact Maymudes who told her, and not Bob himself. I also read there that he proposed to write a musical about female Holocaust survivors titled "Nazi Whores". If that is true and she did not kick his jewels upon hearing that, she deserved all she got. There are worse moral disgressions than selling out the hardware a bit, and that would be one.



Thanks Mutabor, if Maymudes told her it sounds even more like just one of Bob's tales, Bob'd feel he had to keep up with the wild tales of Victor, I suspect,but then he did tell Shelton, too. I know the 60s have that reputation you mention but was that the case as early as Bob arriving in New York? I remember someone saying (may have been Bob!) that the first half of the Sixties were just the 50s continued and it was only from 65 onwards that things started to change.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 17:14 GMT 
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Wasn't Dylan spending drink time with Dr Spock in the eighties, too?
Must be in there, somewheres.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 17:23 GMT 
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homerthes wrote:

Loved your opening sentence and thanks for the insight into something I had intended to avoid. That line about the album ties in with something Al Kooper (I think, a musician with Bob connections, certainly) said some months before KOL was released.



The funny thing about that is Kooper tells her he always wanted to produce Bob, but he definitely did on New Morning for some part. There's also another bit about the children's choir on They Killed Him on that album. One of the kids, or maybe I'm mixing it up, anyway some kid happens to go the studio and starts taking multiple pictures of Bob and she is taken out of the studio crying, and throwing a fit.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 17:30 GMT 

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goodnitesteve wrote:
homerthes wrote:

Loved your opening sentence and thanks for the insight into something I had intended to avoid. That line about the album ties in with something Al Kooper (I think, a musician with Bob connections, certainly) said some months before KOL was released.



The funny thing about that is Kooper tells her he always wanted to produce Bob, but he definitely did on New Morning for some part. There's also another bit about the children's choir on They Killed Him on that album. One of the kids, or maybe I'm mixing it up, anyway some kid happens to go the studio and starts taking multiple pictures of Bob and she is taken out of the studio crying, and throwing a fit.



please presume I am hitting a "thanks" button.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 22:37 GMT 

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goodnitesteve wrote:
I highly recommend this book, it's an interesting time in Dylan's life even if you don't think so. ...I can't wait to read more. I've been taking my time with it, absorbing everything.


That's my feeling too. Bob is too big a topic to take in all at once. There are too many stories, too many angles, too many lives, too many paths that have crossed to get it in one book, or a dozen of them. I think there's a lot to be said for taking a deep dive into a narrow slice. It's what I love about the Rolling Thunder books -- which would seem to be a narrow enough slice, but the perspectives on it are so varied that there are at least three indispensable ones!

I'm counting Sloman, Shepard, and Regan, although who knows. I love Sid Griffin. By the time I finish his RTR, I may put the total at FOUR indispensable volumes, covering just a year or two, depending how you slice it, above and beyond the coverage in other, broader biographies.

So is this THE story of this time? No. It's not even THE story of those six weeks. But it's A story, and told very well. Not all the tales are pretty ones, but we knew that going in, right? Bob himself mentions in Chronicle that this era contains a number of his lesser hours, but for filling in some of the details, this is one of the better of the more focused books.


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PostPosted: Mon May 9th, 2016, 22:50 GMT 

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Huck27 wrote:
Kiss and tell is rarely pretty, but it is hard to imagine Dylan selling his favours for $20 while Mama and Papa were begging him to come home, and were probably sending him the odd food parcel. A woman scorned perhaps. Dylan said people can talk plenty about him when his gone. Seems like some people can't wait.



More Gallup New Mexico stories. I don't think the biographers have had much luck with this tale or its chronology.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10th, 2016, 12:08 GMT 

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I read it and the author impressed me. She admits to being on the make and provides a chilling description of the letdown, which is an experience many can relate to, as it needn't necessarily involve celebrity. The book is often funny because she consciously leaves the silliness in. She is a writer and I wouldn't be surprised if some of it is fabricated (Zim asks for a threesome? ha ha). Dylan was a complete artistic mess in 1986-7 so it's not too surprising that he was a personal mess as well.

What makes it a clever book is that he seems to be in part a figment of her imagination but she hasn't quite put that together yet. She's clearly representing herself as a trophy. Other than mostly believable Zim space cadet speech, he's cardboard, reliably a horn dog and more reliably alcoholic (performance isn't discussed). Serious drinking isn't so great for judgment. She couldn't keep the fish on the line but she finally makes it to shore.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11th, 2016, 13:48 GMT 
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so Bob lived in Trump Tower?


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PostPosted: Wed May 11th, 2016, 21:21 GMT 
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Some of these memories you can learn to live with, some of them you can't


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PostPosted: Thu May 12th, 2016, 04:19 GMT 
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No interest in reading it and I don't put much stock in it...

Dylan became an evangelical, conservative Christian and everyone knows fornication and adultery by evangelical standards will send you straight to hell... And if you followed the tours of the gospel years you'll remember he wrote and performed Ain't Gonna Go to Hell for Anybody throughout with conviction and fervor.


This lady must have Dylan confused with someone else in her life. It happens, you know...


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PostPosted: Thu May 12th, 2016, 09:37 GMT 

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I am about halfway through it and loving it. Highly recommended!


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PostPosted: Thu May 12th, 2016, 10:50 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
Ordered. I chose the free 2 day shipping. It will be here Friday, which is fine with me. I usually can read Dylan books quickly in the loo and that's just what I'm going to do.

Are you a folder or a wadder? For book pages I recommend folding.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12th, 2016, 12:11 GMT 
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I really wouldnt believe anything Victor said. He was the type that if Dylan had 5 girlfriends he had to say he had 10.
One quick rule of thumb: dont take your girlfriends to hang with musicians.


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