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PostPosted: Mon May 23rd, 2016, 03:47 GMT 

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ApocalypseKurtz wrote:
oh the ragman wrote:
"Let's hear what Van thinks about this kind of book."

"Lord, the name game, its such a cryin' shame
Please tell me who's to blame
They just keep on playin' the fame game
Oh the name game, its such a cryin' shame
Please tell me who's to blame
Keep on, keep on playin'.."


What book was Van singing about? Clinton Heylin's 'Can you Feel the Silence'?


Yes


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PostPosted: Mon May 23rd, 2016, 08:17 GMT 

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I heard back from Britta. To the best of her knowledge, Carolyn Dennis was not on that tour, though she adds she wouldn't put anything past Bob. :D She said she had little or no contact with the back-up singers and was never on their bus.

She wrote a long and detailed reply. I have asked her permission to post her entire response in its entirety.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23rd, 2016, 12:23 GMT 
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Clinton Heylins Van bio came out about five years AFTER that New Biography track was originally released so its unlikely to about that particular book.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23rd, 2016, 21:16 GMT 

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Here is Britta's full response, published with permission:

She was not on the tour to the best of my knowledge. That said, our crew had little to no contact with the back up singers, and I was never on their bus. I see where people might be getting their information online, as she was "technically" listed as a member of the Queens of Rhythm on that tour, but I can't imagine any way that somebody could hide an essentially 1 1/2 year old baby on a grueling, lengthy tour like that, though at this point, there's probably nothing I wouldn't put past him - lol.

Some questions cross my mind: Would she have gone out on the road and left the baby back home? Why would the costumer be bringing the baby clothes to Bob? Why wouldn't she just deliver them to the back-up singers' bus and give them directly to the baby's mother? I was under the impression at the time that the clothes were to be sent "back home" after Bob's approval. Surely he would have spent a whole lot more time with the backup singers if she had been there, especially to see the baby. If I were to speculate, and this is purely speculation: I could imagine a scenario in which she may have been left on the payroll for Temples In Flames - and maybe even a couple of the earlier tours - as a courtesy while she was having to stay home raising their infant daughter, and this might be what leads to the faulty conclusion that she was there. I don't believe she was, but I am willing to stand corrected.

If there is absolute proof somewhere that she was on the tour - and I just looked for it online and can't find it - I will do my best to correct a second edition. But, one thing is true for sure, if she was on the European tour, I was certainly unaware of it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 13:24 GMT 
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Interesting, what a crazy bunch of years for Dylan. No wonder he sounds so tired, gritty, and utterly fantastic in 1988.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 15:10 GMT 
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Tired in 88?
He sounded like he had a caffeine infusion on that tour.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 16:24 GMT 
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More like a shot of B12, but you can still have energy and be tired. His voice needs a nap but it's coming out like a roar.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 16:45 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
More like a shot of B12, but you can still have energy and be tired. His voice needs a nap but it's coming out like a roar.


He can still have energy and be tired? Forgive me for asking and for being slightly off topic. but is that a Bernieism?


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:06 GMT 
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Do you read the Bible and interpret "Let there be light" as God just flicking a light switch? I've got a hunch you do.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:11 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
Do you read the Bible and interpret "Let there be light" as God just flicking a light switch? I've got a hunch you do.


To answer your question, No. I dont think there is such a thing as God. I do have doubts about being a state of lethargic energy, like you describe.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:25 GMT 

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"Clinton Heylins Van bio came out about five years AFTER that New Biography track was originally released so its unlikely to about that particular book."

According to wiki: "New Biography" was inspired by Brian Hinton's biography, Celtic Crossroads, written in 1996. The song's lyrics voice Morrison's complaints of celebrity and "books about his life and more precisely 'so-called friends' who chose to spill inside information and memories to biographers."


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:30 GMT 
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LeftBanke wrote:
goodnitesteve wrote:
Do you read the Bible and interpret "Let there be light" as God just flicking a light switch? I've got a hunch you do.


To answer your question, No. I dont think there is such a thing as God. I do have doubts about being a state of lethargic energy, like you describe.


That wasn't the question, but I'm done beating a dead horse. You don't have to take everything so literally. Not everything has one meaning. One thing could mean lots of things. You ever feel so tired, but you overcompensate and drive all the way from Akron to Toledo? That's what it's like.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:34 GMT 
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Are you asking me if when I feel 'so' tired, I overcompensate by driving all the way from Akron to Toledo? I overcompensate by driving long distances? No.

Not that I would ever set foot in either Akron or Toledo so in my case its sort of a moot question.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:41 GMT 
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It was just an example. But say you were a professional athlete and you were very tired, but you couldn't forfeit the championship or reschedule, so you play the game and while you're playing isn't perfect, you still pull through and win the game.

With that said, I think Bob was doing this throughout the 80s, more or less drifting. Recording had become less fun for him and the live shows too, but this seems to have changed come 1988. There were good nights and bad nights, but every night is a performance.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:52 GMT 
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Im going to decline answering the first part of your post about the athlete who couldnt forfeit because its almost impossible to figure out what you are getting at.
However I think Dylans 80s live work was uniformly excellent. The 3 NYC shows with Petty are some of my favorites. 1987, 88, 89 are all considered top tier Dylan by Dylan specialists.
1984 and 1981 are pretty exc too.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 17:56 GMT 
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Fair enough.

I agree. I have to listen to more 80's shows. I've heard key ones from every era, but it's been a while since I've gotten down in the thick of it. I actually haven't heard much of the Petty era at all. It would be interesting to check that out.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 18:00 GMT 
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Watch Hard to Handle.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 18:07 GMT 
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I'll have to track down a vhs copy. I would love a laserdisc rip of this. I think it was on Laserdisc.

A quick google search displays that Hard to Handle was also a James Cagney film. I'm sure this isn't a coincidence. Dylan uses old school movie quotes in Empire Burlesque and so on.

What I was hoping in this book by Britta Lee Shain was that she would talk more about Dylan and his Late night cable, VHS rental and watching habits. I think the prevalence of this media in the 80's was key to Dylan rediscovering old films using them in his paintings as well as creating music.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 19:16 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
I'll have to track down a vhs copy. I would love a laserdisc rip of this. I think it was on Laserdisc.

A quick google search displays that Hard to Handle was also a James Cagney film. I'm sure this isn't a coincidence. Dylan uses old school movie quotes in Empire Burlesque and so on.

What I was hoping in this book by Britta Lee Shain was that she would talk more about Dylan and his Late night cable, VHS rental and watching habits. I think the prevalence of this media in the 80's was key to Dylan rediscovering old films using them in his paintings as well as creating music.


Goodnitesteve, let me be forthright. The Britta book is utterly ridiculous. I read it years ago when it was making the rounds and I remember laughing out loud.
Half of the 'girlfriends' in LA were Dylan girlfriends, Britta seems to live in a vacuum in her book, when in fact shed been around the block several times before she 'bumped' into Ernie.
You want to know what I think of the book? I think its way out of line for her to call Ernie, "Ernie".


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 19:37 GMT 
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Eh, it may be ridiculous to you, but he obviously meant something to her. Is the book a cash grab? I don't think she's going to be laughing all the way to the bank with this book. I'm glad this book exists as a companion to all the other books that have come to pass in recent years. It's good to have different perspectives on the same event. This way you can you can form your own opinions and views. Isn't that what life is all about? You have your view and I have mine. If we all thought the same way, well I don't know what that would be called. :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 19:59 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
Eh, it may be ridiculous to you, but he obviously meant something to her. Is the book a cash grab? I don't think she's going to be laughing all the way to the bank with this book. I'm glad this book exists as a companion to all the other books that have come to pass in recent years. It's good to have different perspectives on the same event. This way you can you can form your own opinions and views. Isn't that what life is all about? You have your view and I have mine. If we all thought the same way, well I don't know what that would be called. :shock:



Yes its good to have many different perspectives, but the book is singularly ridiculous, mostly because I doubt she will be making any money off of it.
Its a book where she is recounting an affair with someone she went on tour with, who has a wife AND an official girlfriend, and several unofficial ones. Yet she thinks she is the love of Dylans life. Its completely ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 20:17 GMT 
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I don't get that she thinks she's the love of his life. I'd say that may be Sara or even Mavis Staples. Britta hasn't seen him personally since the late 80's, unless I'm wrong. For me it's not so much a memoir as it is like a novel. She's a romantic and she doesn't mean to do anyone any harm. I don't think Dylan does either. She grew up listening to him and built it up in her head so much and to meet him must have been the world to her. And to get into his good graces like that must have been another emotional high. And for him, she must have been like all the rest and he moved on and she's still pining. That's no fault to her. She doesn't want to be this way, but like Charlie Chaplin stated in his film Limelight, "The heart and the mind ... what an enigma." I think that's the basic description of what life is. We have brains that are supposed to help us act rationally, but the heart sometimes takes over and makes us do things irrationally. At the end of the day, as long as you're able to function in everyday society without killing somebody, I suppose you're doing okay. You feel pretty good but that ain't saying much you could feel a whole lot better, if someone was just by your side to show you how.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 20:27 GMT 
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Think I'm getting to like you, gnstevie
No, no hugs or nothing, ya know


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 20:47 GMT 
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goodnitesteve wrote:
I don't get that she thinks she's the love of his life. I'd say that may be Sara or even Mavis Staples. Britta hasn't seen him personally since the late 80's, unless I'm wrong. For me it's not so much a memoir as it is like a novel. She's a romantic and she doesn't mean to do anyone any harm. I don't think Dylan does either. She grew up listening to him and built it up in her head so much and to meet him must have been the world to her. And to get into his good graces like that must have been another emotional high. And for him, she must have been like all the rest and he moved on and she's still pining. That's no fault to her. She doesn't want to be this way, but like Charlie Chaplin stated in his film Limelight, "The heart and the mind ... what an enigma." I think that's the basic description of what life is. We have brains that are supposed to help us act rationally, but the heart sometimes takes over and makes us do things irrationally. At the end of the day, as long as you're able to function in everyday society without killing somebody, I suppose you're doing okay. You feel pretty good but that ain't saying much you could feel a whole lot better, if someone was just by your side to show you how.


In other words, and to cut to the chase, she was/is a groupie. A little long in the tooth but a groupie.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25th, 2016, 21:41 GMT 
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