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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 00:08 GMT 
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Ain't Talkin' wrote:

You're not Goombay under another name are you?


Goombay was much more...colorful.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 00:18 GMT 

Joined: Mon August 28th, 2006, 20:35 GMT
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Quote:

not being rude - just pointing out the ignorance/specualtion with no basis in fact. things like that run rampant around here….sorry if you think it is rude for me to point out the total of lack of common sense here. and as i stated above due to lack of pertinent reading and a huge lack of how to think.

I have yet to see anyone respond to any of my critical posts with the following: Hey - you know what old fan you just may have a point. Or maybe I am wrong. Or maybe i was being sloppy or just plain dumb in my thinking…or maybe i should read more before i post…..that never happens…..


Okay, here is some common sense for you: even if you do speak truth 100% of the time, your posts are presented with such vitriol and arrogance that you have absolutely no credibility. I started this thread, and you were the first to pipe in -- essentially repeating something I had already said, like I didn't already know it or make it clear in my post. You say outlandish, hard-to-believe things, and then get grouchy when someone questions you or looks for more info.

And furthermore, you do not know what people mean when they accuse you of being on a high perch. Some do worship Dylan or think of him as somehow transcendental, but mostly we are just looking for some answers about a fascinating individual and his body of work. You seem more interested in ruining the discussion and talking down to us.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 01:08 GMT 
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oldfan wrote:
we and Sony/Columbia have not recorded a tour's worth of shows by Bob Dylan in over 2 decades. Indeed, while there were discussions of a live album the year after the release of "Love & Theft," circa 2002, it was deemed to be both too expensive to produce and market."

"In regards to your question about cost, should it ever take place, Sony would indeed cover all expenses as they all have all exclusive rights to the recording of Bob Dylan in performance".

"We hope this has satisfied your inquiry."


Hey Jeff, x you. You have not recorded a Dylan show in over two decades? What the x are you getting paid for? Legacy? Don't make me x laugh.
'Too expensive' was it? How the x much do you think I have spent on your client since 1967? You think releasing live concerts would be too expensive? You are in the wrong job, sonny.

You disagree? Let's see, just going by the last release, 'The Basement Tapes' you issued the ...errrr..'Complete Sessions' without a comprehensive chronology, how sloppy was that? How much do you get paid again? When will people in your position take responsability for your actions? When will you stop hiding behind the dollar sign that is Bob Dylan?

In any other artistic field you would be laughed off said field, have you no sense of duty to your client? Have you no no regard to his place in history?

I'm bored now, think on & front up.

Regards.
HH.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:29 GMT 
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oldfan, you are something else.

you're also wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:43 GMT 
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Because I find you so irritating and rude oldman, you've coerced me to share, but I am removing product names and client names so I don't get myself or this man that I highly respect in trouble:

Hi XXX (me)

We could also do something on the new (product) card we are using in this recording rig on Dylan.
I think it is brilliant. Being able to plug an Ethernet cable from the 1u KT Network Bridge to a mac laptop and record 48 tracks is so easy. We could record 64 on the same cat5 if we wanted. We just don't have that many mic inputs to the (mixer)!!

We have been using (product) on Dylan tours for a long time. It has been part of our (product) system and provides the backbone for signal to get to the (product name) amps and the (recording system).

However, on this tour we have a (mixer) at FOH and a (product) Network bridge that has the new (product) 64x64 card in it. (Company) have given it to us as part of the beta testing. It has been working perfectly for us and I intend to ask our guys to move all our network bridges to these cards when they are released.

We have been doing Bob Dylan tours for the last X years. 6 to 8 weeks of touring every year.

-----------

This is my last comment on the topic.

And just to be clear, lest you think I made this up - I did not. I'm not nearly as intelligent as this man. It's like Spanish for me...I can read it, sort of understand it, but I can't speak the language.


Last edited by NiteFog on Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:50 GMT, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:48 GMT 
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Yes, but dates, times, eras & decades seem to elude you, never mind, take the paycheck and carry on, it's a job for life, no?


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:48 GMT 
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NiteFog wrote:
Because I find you so irritating and rude oldman, you've coerced me to share, but I am removing product names and client names so I don't get myself or this man that I highly respect in trouble:

Hi XXX (me)

We could also do something on the new (product) card we are using in this recording rig on Dylan.
I think it is brilliant. Being able to plug an Ethernet cable from the 1u KT Network Bridge to a mac laptop and record 48 tracks is so easy. We could record 64 on the same cat5 if we wanted. We just don't have that many mic inputs to the (mixer)!!

We have been using (product) on Dylan tours for a long time. It has been part of our (product) system and provides the backbone for signal to get to the (product name) amps and the (recording system).

However, on this tour we have a (mixer) at FOH and a (product) Network bridge that has the new (product) 64x64 card in it. (Company) have given it to us as part of the beta testing. It has been working perfectly for us and I intend to ask our guys to move all our network bridges to these cards when they are released.

We have been doing Bob Dylan tours for the last X years. 6 to 8 weeks of touring every year.

-----------

This is my last comment on the topic.


Heck, it sounds like it'd be easier to park a 16 track rig around the back of the venue.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:52 GMT 
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hollowhorn wrote:
Yes, but dates, times, eras & decades seem to elude you, never mind, take the paycheck and carry on, it's a job for life, no?


Not sure what you're asking. If you are talking dates, refer to my original post - I'm only talking about the last few years. before that, I honestly don't know.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:53 GMT 
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Ain't Talkin' wrote:
NiteFog wrote:
Because I find you so irritating and rude oldman, you've coerced me to share, but I am removing product names and client names so I don't get myself or this man that I highly respect in trouble:

Hi XXX (me)

We could also do something on the new (product) card we are using in this recording rig on Dylan.
I think it is brilliant. Being able to plug an Ethernet cable from the 1u KT Network Bridge to a mac laptop and record 48 tracks is so easy. We could record 64 on the same cat5 if we wanted. We just don't have that many mic inputs to the (mixer)!!

We have been using (product) on Dylan tours for a long time. It has been part of our (product) system and provides the backbone for signal to get to the (product name) amps and the (recording system).

However, on this tour we have a (mixer) at FOH and a (product) Network bridge that has the new (product) 64x64 card in it. (Company) have given it to us as part of the beta testing. It has been working perfectly for us and I intend to ask our guys to move all our network bridges to these cards when they are released.

We have been doing Bob Dylan tours for the last X years. 6 to 8 weeks of touring every year.

-----------

This is my last comment on the topic.


Heck, it sounds like it'd be easier to park a 16 track rig around the back of the venue.


It would be the same infrastructure honestly, just pushing the signals a further distance.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:57 GMT 
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NiteFog wrote:
Not sure what you're asking. If you are talking dates, refer to my original post - I'm only talking about the last few years. before that, I honestly don't know.

Sorry, I was talking to Jeff Rosen.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 02:59 GMT 
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NiteFog wrote:

It would be the same infrastructure honestly, just pushing the signals a further distance.

Hammer hits nail. Post of the week.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 03:00 GMT 
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hollowhorn wrote:
NiteFog wrote:
Not sure what you're asking. If you are talking dates, refer to my original post - I'm only talking about the last few years. before that, I honestly don't know.

Sorry, I was talking to Jeff Rosen.


haha, no problem. my bad. I think oldman has made me temporarily lose touch with my sense of humor.

Thankfully, for every one Goombay or oldman, there are 99 hollow horns and chrome horses and smokes on this site.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 03:12 GMT 
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That's really kind of you to say so, thank-you I'm rather touched, truth be told.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 03:27 GMT 

Joined: Wed February 16th, 2005, 21:50 GMT
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Yes, thank you Mr. Fog.

I have a new take on this.

WHO would be the direct beneficiary of the message coming out of this site that nothing has been recorded live for decades?

The record company. Because it gives you one more reason to buy what is available now, and not wait. Current cash flow enhancement - always a big issue in a big corporation.

Could we be dealing with a paid representative, a planted "disinformation" specialist?
Who else but a paid salesman would try and peddle such total idiotic thinking, and then have the nerve to suggest everyone here is nuts to think there is any reason to even want the recordings?

We certainly see the crass attitude one would expect to see in a paid peddler of falsehoods.

Nothing else makes much sense.

Or a lonely, attention starved wannabe?

A masochist?

Should we pass the hat for a shrink?


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 03:44 GMT 
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chrome horse wrote:
Yes, thank you Mr. Fog.

I have a new take on this.

WHO would be the direct beneficiary of the message coming out of this site that nothing has been recorded live for decades?

The record company. Because it gives you one more reason to buy what is available now, and not wait. Current cash flow enhancement - always a big issue in a big corporation.

Could we be dealing with a paid representative, a planted "disinformation" specialist?
Who else but a paid salesman would try and peddle such total idiotic thinking, and then have the nerve to suggest everyone here is nuts to think there is any reason to even want the recordings?

We certainly see the crass attitude one would expect to see in a paid peddler of falsehoods.

Nothing else makes much sense.

Or a lonely, attention starved wannabe?

A masochist?


Chrome Horse, They have a sale on IQ points at K-Mart on Monday. You better go and stock up.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 12:55 GMT 
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I know that at least some soundcheck have been recorded. I don't have any details regarding the time and date but they were used during the tempest recording sessions.

I think we have a pretty good knowledge of Bob's live performances (at least for the NET), but soundcheck? Unbeknownst to us, there are certainly many gems played during those.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 13:34 GMT 
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oldfan wrote:

you are wrong. It is not that i have seen a contract lol…..but i am told by someone who absolutely knows….the lawyer/law firm


Dylan's contribution to the Warren Zevon tribute album was a live recording and was not issued by Sony. I suspect that words along the lines of 'Bob Dylan appears courtesy of Columbia Records' on the record label is all that is required by the lawyers.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 14:37 GMT 
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littlemaggie wrote:
oldfan wrote:

you are wrong. It is not that i have seen a contract lol…..but i am told by someone who absolutely knows….the lawyer/law firm


Dylan's contribution to the Warren Zevon tribute album was a live recording and was not issued by Sony. I suspect that words along the lines of 'Bob Dylan appears courtesy of Columbia Records' on the record label is all that is required by the lawyers.



In the past this was certainly not the case, the record company had to actually give permission - and frequently didn't, hence the appearance of "Clit McTorious" (Actually Noel Redding) on a Randy California album, and the uncredited appearance of big stars like Mick Jagger & Eric Clapton on Dr Johns 'Sun Moon & Herbs', not to mention George Harrison on Creams 'Badge' single.... all of them pretty big stars, all of them technically not allowed to appear on other labels. I don't know what arrangement Dylan has with Sony but as his appearance on a lesser known artists record would enhance the latters sales I expect his record company would want more than credit... in the case of Willie Nelson it may be different, but certainly in the past a mere 'thank you' was not enough....


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 16:21 GMT 

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I'd like to shift gears a bit here, since I know absolutely zilch about recording rights, deals, or who has authority over who to do what. Is it out of the realm of possibility to think that someone in the Dylan camp doesn't WANT to release any of the recent NET material?? As we all know, from 1997 to 2005 Bobdylan.com made over 6 hours of NET tour material from those years available for free download. The quality of these recordings varied, of course, but the last of these tunes to be released were Under the Red Sky and Shooting Star from 4/26/05. No recorded live material since that date has been officially released. Not that I know of, at least.

If it's true that most of the shows have, indeed, been recorded by Dylan's crew, then that's nearly 10 years of of live material collecting dust in the vault. That's A LOT of material for an artist who's made his live performances the signature of the latter part of his career.

I suppose it's like this: Either the majority of the shows have been/are recorded, or they aren't. If they aren't recorded, then why not? We all know it's cheaper and easier than ever to do so, and TONS of artists of various genres and levels of popularity are doing this, and making the material available for purchase. If the shows ARE being recorded, then why aren't they being made available to the public? I can't imagine the Dylan camp has failed to figure out how to make money by doing this, so what's the hold up? Again, it seems strange for an artist who has spent as much time on the road in the last 20 years as Dylan has.


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PostPosted: Sat January 24th, 2015, 21:59 GMT 
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When Bob stops touring / performing, that's when they'll flop out the big teet and charge you per suckle.


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PostPosted: Sun January 25th, 2015, 00:21 GMT 
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The shows are taped. It's only a matter of time before Sony begins releasing them and cashing in on the endless supply of money awaiting them. The taxes alone that they take in will wipe out the national debt.


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PostPosted: Sun January 25th, 2015, 02:47 GMT 

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Folks, regardless of the supposed Rosen email transcript, I think it's obvious that most if not all of the shows are being taped by folks on Dylan's payroll.

Now, the question of whether they are straight "reference tapes" made on-the-fly via a simple buss split from the FOH rig, or actual, discrete multi-tracks which are more geared toward later sweetening and remixing (what most folks think of as "major label release quality" - whatever that means anymore) is really the only serious question left unanswered.

The ludicrous notion (and yes, it IS ludicrous, no matter what ANYONE might otherwise think) that it would be "too expensive to produce and market" a live-in-concert compilation from ANY of Bob's recent tours is so laughable as to almost be absurd.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone would actually fall for such a baldfaced nonsensical claim, even if someone near the top of Dylan's camp made it.

A live-in-concert compilation of recently recorded (meaning from the 1990s onward) tracks from the NET would in actuality be INSANELY CHEAP to both produce and market.

Dig: The shows are already taking place. There's no session time to book, or extraneous travel and lodging costs.

They play dozens of shows a year, so there are multiple chances to find superlative renditions of each song which require little or no postproduction wizardry, save for tweaks to the mix and EQ, and mastering them to fit in as seamlessly as possible with the other cuts selected for inclusion.

Marketing such a record would also cost NEXT TO NOTHING, because there is a very small group of folks who would go NUTS for such a release and instantly purchase it. People like myself and those of you reading this thread.

There is no need whatsoever to take out big ads in trade magazines or newspapers. All Sony / Dylan Inc. would have to do is narrowcast online advertising to a handful of websites/forums and let nature take its course.

The folks who won't see any value or have any interest in latter-day live Bob will ignore it, or look into it for shits and giggles. The rest will line up to pay a fair price for an excellent-sounding compilation that is supposedly sanctioned / overseen in some capacity by Bob.

They can press up about 25,000 to 50,000 and watch them fly out of the warehouse with virtually no effort.

This is a no-brainer for a cottage industry.

Plus, even if Bob, Inc. and/or Sony might insist on only using "professionally multitracked" live recordings for such a release, I can speak from experience and tell you without a doubt that the net proceeds from as little as one and no more than two of Bob's live dates from the past several years will TOTALLY cover the production costs for mixing, compiling, mastering and packaging such a record -- and that's being generous.

Every single bit of the sweetening and editing needed for something of this nature can be done in a well-equipped project studio set up for just such a purpose, with the mastering done in a top-notch facility by someone at the level of Clearmountain or Ludwig.

So, yeah, whether or not Jeff Rosen made those claims, they're completely bogus and designed for one reason only:

To politely and instantly put an end to the conversation.

"Nothing to see here, folks. move along."

With a definitive "no" on file from the desk right next to Bob's own, no further queries from anyone are likely. Not about how many shows have been taped, not about how they were recorded, not about what if anything they plan to ever do with them, not about why they did or did not use a certain method to capture the sound, or why they did or did not make sure to document a particular leg of a particular tour.

Basically, if oldfan's correspondence with Rosen is real and accurately depicted (and I have no reason to doubt that it is, because I myself have corresponded with Rosen, and know others who have, and that sounds like his email voice), it's the equivalent of someone asking the official representative of a very private person (who also has a penchant for enjoying keeping his fans guessing at all costs), "So, what's in your employer's bedroom safe?"

To which the representative replies, "Well, you know, he actually doesn't have a bedroom safe. Even though he's got shitloads of money and all manner of priceless valuables in his possession, we looked into buying a safe a decade or so ago, because it sure seemed like a good idea, but you know, it turns out those things cost so much to buy (and then of course installation is EXTRA?!), that it made more financial sense for us to just forget about it. But thanks for asking!"

Just my .02, for whatever that may be worth.

~ L.F.


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PostPosted: Sun January 25th, 2015, 03:05 GMT 

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Lonesomefetter wrote:
Folks, regardless of the supposed Rosen email transcript, I think it's obvious that most if not all of the shows are being taped by folks on Dylan's payroll.

Now, the question of whether they are straight "reference tapes" made on-the-fly via a simple buss split from the FOH rig, or actual, discrete multi-tracks which are more geared toward later sweetening and remixing (what most folks think of as "major label release quality" - whatever that means anymore) is really the only serious question left unanswered.

The ludicrous notion (and yes, it IS ludicrous, no matter what ANYONE might otherwise think) that it would be "too expensive to produce and market" a live-in-concert compilation from ANY of Bob's recent tours is so laughable as to almost be absurd.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone would actually fall for such a baldfaced nonsensical claim, even if someone near the top of Dylan's camp made it.

A live-in-concert compilation of recently recorded (meaning from the 1990s onward) tracks from the NET would in actuality be INSANELY CHEAP to both produce and market.

Dig: The shows are already taking place. There's no session time to book, or extraneous travel and lodging costs.

They play dozens of shows a year, so there are multiple chances to find superlative renditions of each song which require little or no postproduction wizardry, save for tweaks to the mix and EQ, and mastering them to fit in as seamlessly as possible with the other cuts selected for inclusion.

Marketing such a record would also cost NEXT TO NOTHING, because there is a very small group of folks who would go NUTS for such a release and instantly purchase it. People like myself and those of you reading this thread.

There is no need whatsoever to take out big ads in trade magazines or newspapers. All Sony / Dylan Inc. would have to do is narrowcast online advertising to a handful of websites/forums and let nature take its course.

The folks who won't see any value or have any interest in latter-day live Bob will ignore it, or look into it for shits and giggles. The rest will line up to pay a fair price for an excellent-sounding compilation that is supposedly sanctioned / overseen in some capacity by Bob.

They can press up about 25,000 to 50,000 and watch them fly out of the warehouse with virtually no effort.

This is a no-brainer for a cottage industry.

Plus, even if Bob, Inc. and/or Sony might insist on only using "professionally multitracked" live recordings for such a release, I can speak from experience and tell you without a doubt that the net proceeds from as little as one and no more than two of Bob's live dates from the past several years will TOTALLY cover the production costs for mixing, compiling, mastering and packaging such a record -- and that's being generous.

Every single bit of the sweetening and editing needed for something of this nature can be done in a well-equipped project studio set up for just such a purpose, with the mastering done in a top-notch facility by someone at the level of Clearmountain or Ludwig.

So, yeah, whether or not Jeff Rosen made those claims, they're completely bogus and designed for one reason only:

To politely and instantly put an end to the conversation.

"Nothing to see here, folks. move along."

With a definitive "no" on file from the desk right next to Bob's own, no further queries from anyone are likely. Not about how many shows have been taped, not about how they were recorded, not about what if anything they plan to ever do with them, not about why they did or did not use a certain method to capture the sound, or why they did or did not make sure to document a particular leg of a particular tour.

Basically, if oldfan's correspondence with Rosen is real and accurately depicted (and I have no reason to doubt that it is, because I myself have corresponded with Rosen, and know others who have, and that sounds like his email voice), it's the equivalent of someone asking the official representative of a very private person (who also has a penchant for enjoying keeping his fans guessing at all costs), "So, what's in your employer's bedroom safe?"

To which the representative replies, "Well, you know, he actually doesn't have a bedroom safe. Even though he's got shitloads of money and all manner of priceless valuables in his possession, we looked into buying a safe a decade or so ago, because it sure seemed like a good idea, but you know, it turns out those things cost so much to buy (and then of course installation is EXTRA?!), that it made more financial sense for us to just forget about it. But thanks for asking!"

Just my .02, for whatever that may be worth.

~ L.F.


I hope you had a microphone to drop at the end of this. Outstanding.


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PostPosted: Sun January 25th, 2015, 13:22 GMT 

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Lonesomefetter wrote:

The ludicrous notion (and yes, it IS ludicrous, no matter what ANYONE might otherwise think) that it would be "too expensive to produce and market" a live-in-concert compilation from ANY of Bob's recent tours is so laughable as to almost be absurd.

Seriously, I can't believe anyone would actually fall for such a baldfaced nonsensical claim, even if someone near the top of Dylan's camp made it.

A live-in-concert compilation of recently recorded (meaning from the 1990s onward) tracks from the NET would in actuality be INSANELY CHEAP to both produce and market.

Dig: The shows are already taking place. There's no session time to book, or extraneous travel and lodging costs.

They play dozens of shows a year, so there are multiple chances to find superlative renditions of each song which require little or no postproduction wizardry, save for tweaks to the mix and EQ, and mastering them to fit in as seamlessly as possible with the other cuts selected for inclusion.

Marketing such a record would also cost NEXT TO NOTHING, because there is a very small group of folks who would go NUTS for such a release and instantly purchase it. People like myself and those of you reading this thread.

There is no need whatsoever to take out big ads in trade magazines or newspapers. All Sony / Dylan Inc. would have to do is narrowcast online advertising to a handful of websites/forums and let nature take its course.


They can press up about 25,000 to 50,000 and watch them fly out of the warehouse with virtually no effort.

This is a no-brainer for a cottage industry.

So, yeah, whether or not Jeff Rosen made those claims, they're completely bogus and designed for one reason only:

To politely and instantly put an end to the conversation.

"Nothing to see here, folks. move along."

With a definitive "no" on file from the desk right next to Bob's own, no further queries from anyone are likely. Not about how many shows have been taped, not about how they were recorded, not about what if anything they plan to ever do with them, not about why they did or did not use a certain method to capture the sound, or why they did or did not make sure to document a particular leg of a particular tour.



Just my .02, for whatever that may be worth.

~ L.F.


Your 2 cents are worth a lot, and on the money.

Of course, you're preaching to the choir. The only question left at this point is "are there multiple recordings of shows, or just one?".

oldfan has been thoroughly debunked. His only supporter, cheap shot artist Ain't Talkin', offered up a lame attack on me with no substance of his own on the subject - a sure sign of vacuity. But their ludicrous claims, as you most appropriately labeled them, are obviously the result of weak minds or payroll disbursement.


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PostPosted: Sun January 25th, 2015, 16:21 GMT 
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I don't have any specific knowledge of what or why Dylan's people do or do not record but there's absolutely no technical reason why they shouldn't record every show these days - and perhaps even make the odd few quid extra from it. For example, the wonderful Black Crowes have been recording most (if not all) of their shows for the thick end of the last 20 years. These are then made available to purchase as either CD, FLAC, or MP3. KISS, amongst others, also have been using a service called, I think, Instant Live which gives the punter a chance to buy a CD-R of the show they've just been to from the merch stand as they leave the venue.

The only thing that surprises me is that Dylan Inc. haven't gone down this route already.

Cheers,
Steve


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